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2012 NBA Draft

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I was hoping for Lamb or Barton with the first second rounder and I think if they wanted Middleton he would still have been available at 44. But still, from the reports on English he looks to be a solid pick. No major complaints. Besides I'm still way to excited about Drummond to be down in any way.

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Can't say I'm a big fan of the Middleton pick...not that I really know.

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And the more I read about English the more I like the pick. Gives you the off the bench shooter I was looking for, but is also supposed to have top notch work ethic and will be good in the locker room. Middleton seems to have some injury and toughness concerns, but looks to have a nice offensive skill-set. I think the drafting of Middleton tells you what they think of Daye's future here behind Tay.

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Middleton has been a big riser on the draft sites lately. I believe espn had him going to GS at 30 in their final mock.

We got some shooting and scoring from the wing with our 2nd rounders and I thought that should have been the goal. We got our big in Drummond. Amazing luck there, couldn't be happier. Even as a raw, particularly young freshman, he was pretty damn good. Good rebound rate, 2.7 blocks, UConn freshman record for double-doubles, #1 in NCAA in defending post up plays and no PG to feed him the ball at the rim. Couldn't be a better fit next to Greg obviously.

I think this coupled with the Maggette move makes JJ a PF. I think they will want a stretch 4 type as their 3rd big, to help space the floor a bit. Neither Drummond or Monroe has much shooting range.

Who knows if this kid works out, but he's a franchise changing talent if he does.

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Love the Drummond pick. Was really hoping we would get him, but didn't think it was going to happen considering he was thought of as a top 3 pick at some points leading up to the draft. I give Joe D the business more than his fair amount, but I can't even say anything negative about his drafting lately, granted, this one was absolutely gift wrapped for us.

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All I saw of the draft was the Drummond pick. Gosh, sounds like a steal. Sounds like he's pretty raw, particularly on the offensive side of the court, but he's got some attributes that make it easy to embrace that selection.

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I like reading "tough defender" on English's profile. It sounds like Middleton's knee hurt his stock a lot. A flier in the second round - it sounds like a good gamble.

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I did not watch much NBA this year, but I most definitely watched College ball. Drummond is a decent pick, but Henson would have been better. I think Henson is even a better prospect than Barnes when you consider UNC products. I'm happy, but I go on record when I say I wish we took Henson.

Also, I have become a T Wolves fan tonight as they took a gem with Purdue legend Robbie Hummell. Boston did excellent also in the first stealing Sullinger.

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For the record, I like the pick a lot. I just like Henson, and only Henson, more.

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Not excited about Drummond. Hopefully he figures stuff out and develops a ton but what we've got right now is a big tall guy that can block shots. He wasn't even a very good rebounder in college and has no offensive game at all. He's young, so he's got a chance to develop but he's got a very long way to go before he's helping an NBA team win games.

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Not excited about Drummond. Hopefully he figures stuff out and develops a ton but what we've got right now is a big tall guy that can block shots. He wasn't even a very good rebounder in college and has no offensive game at all. He's young, so he's got a chance to develop but he's got a very long way to go before he's helping an NBA team win games.

I don't agree. Drummond is exactly what the Pistons needed; an athletic big to put next to Monroe. Henson would have been a disastrous pick (I know you didnt specifically mention him, I am just adding it). He is the youngest played in the draft and will only get better. Plus a year of mentoring from Ben Wallace will get him started on the right track.

Great value for the number 9 selection.

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I don't agree. Drummond is exactly what the Pistons needed; an athletic big to put next to Monroe. Henson would have been a disastrous pick (I know you didnt specifically mention him, I am just adding it). He is the youngest played in the draft and will only get better. Plus a year of mentoring from Ben Wallace will get him started on the right track.

Great value for the number 9 selection.

He better "only get better" because he's terrible right now. He's very young and does have lots of time to get better but even if he gets a lot better he still could be a below average NBA center. He's 7' and couldn't rebound in college. Centers that can't rebound in college don't have great track records in the NBA, even the guys that came out early.

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He better "only get better" because he's terrible right now. He's very young and does have lots of time to get better but even if he gets a lot better he still could be a below average NBA center. He's 7' and couldn't rebound in college. Centers that can't rebound in college don't have great track records in the NBA, even the guys that came out early.

He was the best low post defender in all of college last season as an 18 year old. His floor of a great defender, who blocks can shots and run the floor still makes him a value at 9 and a perfect fit for the Pistons. His ceiling is Howard-esque and his floor, like I heard on the radio is Deandre Jordan. Not that much of a risk IMO as Deandre Jordan would sure fit well next to Monroe. Any offensive game he develops is a bonus IMO. I am so much happier with him than Henson as this way Monroe can play the 4 and we have a big athletic body to play the 5. Henson would likely be better on the offensive end, but Drummond's already a better low post defender and with his fairly equal athleticism and 60-70 more lbs and only being 18, he brings more of what we need IMO.

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As for Drummond's rebounding.....he's an athletic 18.5 yr-old, who has an NBA body; rebounding - like defense.....is an attitude that can be taught.

He'll have to learn positioning and anticipation; but with that athleticism, the boardwork will improve. It's all about his mindset.

.....That's why Ben now becomes a player-assistant.

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He was the best low post defender in all of college last season as an 18 year old. His floor of a great defender, who blocks can shots and run the floor still makes him a value at 9 and a perfect fit for the Pistons. His ceiling is Howard-esque and his floor, like I heard on the radio is Deandre Jordan. Not that much of a risk IMO as Deandre Jordan would sure fit well next to Monroe. Any offensive game he develops is a bonus IMO. I am so much happier with him than Henson as this way Monroe can play the 4 and we have a big athletic body to play the 5. Henson would likely be better on the offensive end, but Drummond's already a better low post defender and with his fairly equal athleticism and 60-70 more lbs and only being 18, he brings more of what we need IMO.

I don't agree that he was the best low post defender last year. He was probably the best shot blocker and he avoids fouls very well (which is hard to do as a shot blocker). But he was a terrible defensive rebounder and was generally bad in the games I saw (NCAA tourney plus the game against UC) when the ball wasn't near him.

Everyone talks about how important it is to have athleticism at the 5 but if he can't actually play who cares how athletic he is? He's a high risk/high reward pick and his floor is drastically lower than Deandre Jordan.

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As for Drummond's rebounding.....he's an athletic 18.5 yr-old, who has an NBA body; rebounding - like defense.....is an attitude that can be taught.

He'll have to learn positioning and anticipation; but with that athleticism, the boardwork will improve. It's all about his mindset.

.....That's why Ben now becomes a player-assistant.

If it were that easy to teach everyone would do it. Guys that don't rebound in college don't typically learn to rebound in the NBA.

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Which would make it the definition of a 'win now' move. If what you described were true, the move wasn't made with an idea of how to make the competitive in the long term.

I expressed the concern that Joe has as much an eye on trying to make the team good in 2013 as opposed to long-term. You asked me what evidence there was of it, and I cited Prince. Since that point, you've either defended Prince as a player or came up with rationales why Joe signed him, but none of them, as far as I can tell, suggest it wasn't a move with an eye on the short-term.

So unless you can explain why signing Prince wasn't a move to make the team competitive in the short term, and rather was a long term move, you aren't countering my claim.

This is a better argument, but I guess I don't see how being a bridge, if he is one, is a necessary thing at this point. Perhaps that is because I don't see the Pistons as being in the middle of a rebuild - I don't think they are to the mid-way point, I think they are more at the quarter point or something.

I wasn't arguing that I would start Daye over Prince, I was arguing not signing Prince and starting Daye would have been a better example (IMO)of trying to build for the future rather than win now.

So playing to make the play-offs for $$$ isn't an example of being short-term focused?

I have a concern over his short-term vs. long-term balance. You asked me to explain it - I did. I don't know what you want out of me beyond that, and I guess I don't understand how the vast majority of your points address my concern.

Who is closer to a championship, the Lions or the Pistons?

The Prince move was both a 'win now' and 'ensure the future move, IMO. Not everything is black and white, and not everything—especially basketball team composition—can be explained by numbers or stats. Not a dig, but have you played competitive basketball?

I get it, you think the Prince signing was purely a short-term, short-sighted move by Joe D. We will continue to disagree on this, just like we will continue to disagree that he is playing purely for this season. Drafting Drummond last night was more evidence of this, as the guy is a high-ceiling project. We could have brought other bigs to come in and produce more right away, but instead we brought in the guy who could be the best center from this draft in five years.

And I'm not going to go back through your posts to check, but I don't ever recall you hedging your bet by saying that Dumars is building a team to win this year AS MUCH as he's building for the future. Forgive me if I'm wrong—or don't—but I recall you building your case on him purely building to win now. If you said he was doing both, I would obviously have no problem with that statement.

We can also disagree on the state of the franchise rebuild. You don't see much improvement, I saw a great deal of improvement by existing pieces after the terrible 4-20 start. Our winning percentage has gone up each of the past three seasons, and the overall quality of play by the end of the season was borderline playoff-worthy. We had enough players contributing, and showing improvement, by the end of the year that there is certainly a reason why we should think the Pistons could make the playoffs possibly as a 7th seed next year. If the light goes on for Drummond sooner than later, we could possibly do better.

I would say that with the drafting of Drummond it puts at the 50% point of the rebuild, depending on when you think a rebuild is finished. Is a rebuild done when you reach the playoffs? Win a playoff series? Reach the ECF? Win the title?

Playing to make the playoffs is bigger-picture. You are rooting for the wrong franchise if you expect a complete Rich Rodriguez-style rebuild of tearing it all down to build it up, and perhaps that frustrates you. Dumars just picked above slot value for the third-straight year. We have two competent SF's on the roster in Prince and CM to go with nice rotation combo forward in JJ. Knight and Stuckey aren't a perfect starting guard combo, but they are competitive. Max gives us an energy player to throw into the rotation. That's a decent eight-player rotation. Singler and Macklin are wild cards. Macklin provides us with another big space-eater in the paint who has shown he can dominate on the boards in the D-league. He'll get a chance to show what he can do in summer league and camp. Singler is a lesser JJ for now, who knows if he's made strides or hasn't. Are we assuming CV get amnestied? If he does, Daye and Bynum have the last two dress spots as of right now. Bynum can give us quality minutes and sometimes better than that. And Daye is Daye. Who knows what English and Middleton will bring next year? English is good long range shooter who can play defense and Middleton is a very good mid-range shooter coming off a season where he played hurt.

IMO, Dumars has set us up very nice for the 2013 season where we'll be able to do some FA shopping. Max, Rip, Bynum, CM and Daye all come off the books and we can do some serious shopping for a serious piece (or two) to the puzzle. Stuckey will be in his contract year and he'll be playing for what he hopes to be money to carry him the rest of his life.

Our roster isn't sexy, but it can be effective under Frank's system this season and moving ahead. As is, this is a .500 team next season IMO. I know, not good enough for people who want us to play for the next draft, but it is good enough to create an identity and re-establish the brand. The brand will help bring in FA's in 2013 and 2014.

And if the Lions win the Super Bowl before the Pistons win their next championship, well, let's just say I'm not afraid to bet on a guy who has won us championships in the past. I'll take that bet.

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He better "only get better" because he's terrible right now. He's very young and does have lots of time to get better but even if he gets a lot better he still could be a below average NBA center. He's 7' and couldn't rebound in college. Centers that can't rebound in college don't have great track records in the NBA, even the guys that came out early.

7.6 REB in just under 29 MIN may not be rebounding to potential, but it is better than you claim. Greg Monroe averaged 6.5 REB in over 30 MPG as a freshman, just to give you some perspective.

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7.6 REB in just under 29 MIN may not be rebounding to potential, but it is better than you claim. Greg Monroe averaged 6.5 REB in over 30 MPG as a freshman, just to give you some perspective.

Yeah, I am not sure why he is claiming he is a bad rebounder, all evidence, and observation, points to the contrary.

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7.6 REB in just under 29 MIN may not be rebounding to potential, but it is better than you claim. Greg Monroe averaged 6.5 REB in over 30 MPG as a freshman, just to give you some perspective.

He's at about 12.6 per 48 minutes (not good for a center that intends to get drafted). Note: the rest of these stats stolen directly from this article and are based on the draft express top 100 database:

For Andre Drummond and the Pistons, the numbers have to lie | Pistons by the Numbers

He was 42nd overall and 18 among centers and power forwards in total rebounds per 40 minutes. That's not good.

He was 41st overall and 30th among centers and power forwards. That's terrible.

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Full disclosure, I wasn't excited about the Monroe pick either and he's done much better than I expected.

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I'm with most of the posters on this pick...pretty darn happy. At the very worst, we've just given the defensive support around the basket that we so desperately need. If English is a good defender as well then this team will really benefit from this draft having just traded away our biggest defensive liability. I don't think it's crazy to think we could easily see a 5 point swing in average point differential from the moves we made this off season.

Defense is something that we can quickly improve in an off season and I really think this team is moving in the right direction. At the end of the day you just don't know how any of these kids are going to respond to the world being handed to them on a tray and so far Drummond hasn't apparently handled it all that well. Hopefully he'll take some lessons from the criticisms that caused him to drop far lower then his talent level deserved (according to almost everyone, a little effort and he could have easily been the #2 pick), take some mentorship from Ben and even Monroe who seems to really have his head on straight and has learned how to improve his game.

Look, it should always be exciting to draft a player who has the talent to be amongst the best players in the league. In Drummonds case we have to take it with a grain of salt but, I do agree that it seems the worst case scenario is we have a guy that will become a real defensive force and make it a lot harder for other teams to attack the rim.

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I did not watch much NBA this year, but I most definitely watched College ball. Drummond is a decent pick, but Henson would have been better. I think Henson is even a better prospect than Barnes when you consider UNC products. I'm happy, but I go on record when I say I wish we took Henson.

Also, I have become a T Wolves fan tonight as they took a gem with Purdue legend Robbie Hummell. Boston did excellent also in the first stealing Sullinger.

You cannot base this pick on anything you saw last year from him. He was basically a high school senior playing major college basketball and it has always been said about him it is about his potential, not his current game. If anything, I am encouraged by the fact he is already a pretty decent shot blocker because even if he busts as a prospect, at least we are getting a big guy in the middle to protect the basket.

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Full disclosure, I wasn't excited about the Monroe pick either and he's done much better than I expected.

I would say the same thing about the Knight pick...although I think next year will be the real tell tale sign of how good of a pick that was.

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