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Polanco a Tiger again?? I'd love to see it

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Nobody hates him. He just isn't as good as Rod and Mario used to tell you he was. OK, he was good for a while, if not very good. But those days are long gone. So what has he done to deserve the worshiping he gets from some people?

Sounds like it. And thanks for insulting my inteligence in thinking I take whatever those 2 say as some kind of gospel.

Dude does nothing but put up above average numbers every year with above average fielding and anyone who tries to stick up for that gets brow beaten into submission.

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Always a bad cop-out for crappy players. I think we should be focusing on good ones if the opportunity is there. Polanco is not the answer.

So I am 'worshiping' him by simply saying he is better than what we have, but you are not 'hating' on him by saying he is a crappy player?

Come on man it is obvious you really do not like him...not sure why...but is is fairly obvious.

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.331/.339/.335 Placido's On base percentages the last 3 years, how do those help?

.396/.386/.339 Slugging percentages over the same span

pretty much as empty a stat line as you can get without being all ingey

We all know he is not a slugger. I will take a guy hitting .300 even if it is all singles if he is hitting in front of Cabrera.

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At what point does the phrase "that ship has sailed" come into play here?

Never apparently. You have the majority of both ends of the discussion going to extremes in opposite directions.

He 'used' to be REALLY good IMO. He is now old and not really good anyomore. IMO he is still better than what we have. Santiago/Raburn is not going to cut it. Raburns feet are made of stone, his bat is made of lead the first half of the year and Santiago is never going to be an every day player for us. Jim and Dombrowski have both said it more than once and the dude may not even be here next year.

I have already said it a couple times...I would prefer someone else, but if my options were what we had this year and Polanco...I will take Polanco.

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Let's not bring facts into this...

Yoda for what it's worth I think it's fair to do this, it's fair to ask if a single player is "better" than what has worked in the past. But I take it with a grain of salt. Here is what each player that played 2B contrubuted to the Tigers for the season;

Overall 2011 // At 2B 2011

Worth .270 Avg. 0 HR's // .222AVG 0 HR's

Santiago .260 avg 5 HR's // .289 Avg. 4 HR's

Raburn .256 avg 14 HR's // .279 Avg. 9 HR's

Guillen .232 Avg. 3 HR's // .232 Avg 3 HR's

Sizemore .222 Avg. 0 HR's // .222 Avg 0 HR's

Rhymes .235 Avg. ) HR's // .235 Avg. 0 HR's

So to put it bluntly, yes, Santiago and Raburn played ABOVE their season average at 2B for 2011. After that... 2B was NOT good news.....

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Polanco has never been as great as his admirers suggest. I used to like him, but found myself criticizing him a lot because he was so overrated. He's not crap though. He can still field and put up a somewhat respectable OBP.

As far as the Tigers getting him back, I'm not interested. He's 37, injury prone and on the decline.

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We all know he is not a slugger. I will take a guy hitting .300 even if it is all singles if he is hitting in front of Cabrera.

Also bear in mind that SLG is a stat based on total bases. A player who gets more total bases than another player is going to have a higher SLG and then you add SLG to OBP to get OPS.

I'm not making excuses for Polanco, he does have less power but SLG and OPS tend to favor players who get more total bases overall than singles hitters who don't get a lot of extra base hits and who walk a lot.

3 home runs in 20 at bats = 12 total bases for a .150 BA

10 hits in 20 at bats = 10 total bases for a .500 BA

You know where I'm going....

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In a 20 AB period, I would rather have 3 home runs than 10 singles.

I'd rather have a guy hit .500 average with 3 home runs, but I guess I didn't offer that option....

(also is the .150 guy hitting in front of Cabrera or the .500 hitting guy?!?)

Just having some fun with you Truman- good to see your back again!!

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I'm not making excuses for Polanco, he does have less power but SLG and OPS tend to favor players who get more total bases overall than singles hitters who don't get a lot of extra base hits and who walk a lot.

The problem is, Polanco doesn't walk a lot.

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We all know he is not a slugger. I will take a guy hitting .300 even if it is all singles if he is hitting in front of Cabrera.

He doesn't get on base. How is a guy who doesn't get on base useful hitting ahead of Cabrera??

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The problem is, Polanco doesn't walk a lot.

For 2011

Polanco walked 42 times and struck out 44 times in 469 AB's

DeJesus walked 45 times and struck out 86 times in 442 AB's

Raburn walked 21 times and struck out 114 times in 387 AB's

Santiago walked 17 times and struck out 38 times in 258 AB's

So I guess it's relative to who we are talking about.....

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And did she commit less than 13 errors in 91 games like Sizemore or 10 errors in 56 games at 2B like Raburn? I know errors may not mean anything to anyone anymore but Polanco has only 15 errors total for 2011, 2010 and the 2009 seasons, Combined!

I never argued Polanco isn't as good as or better than Sizemore/Raburn/Santiago defensively, so I don't understand why you're bringing this up in response to me. He is better defensively than those three. He's also still vastly overrated by Tigers fans and on the downside of his career.

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For 2011

Polanco walked 42 times and struck out 44 times in 469 AB's

DeJesus walked 45 times and struck out 86 times in 442 AB's

Raburn walked 21 times and struck out 114 times in 387 AB's

Santiago walked 17 times and struck out 38 times in 258 AB's

So I guess it's relative to who we are talking about.....

Last year, he tied a career high in walks. He usually has about a 5% walk rate, and last year was around 8%.

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For 2011

Polanco walked 42 times and struck out 44 times in 469 AB's

DeJesus walked 45 times and struck out 86 times in 442 AB's

Raburn walked 21 times and struck out 114 times in 387 AB's

Santiago walked 17 times and struck out 38 times in 258 AB's

So I guess it's relative to who we are talking about.....

Look at the at bats. 82 fewer for Raburn and 211 fewer for Santiago. I'm no good at math; does anyone know what Raburn's and Santiago's walk rates would be with Polanco's amount of at bats?

ETA

I just checked on Fangraphs: Raburn's BB% was 5% (Polanco's career walk rate) and Santiago's was 5.8%.

Edited by catswithbats

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One super low cost option perhaps for the Tigers would be for 2012 to give Raburn 2B (for most of the game at least) and get Carroll to play 3B (again, for most of the game). Later in the game make a defensive switch, Inge to 3B, Carroll to 2B and Raburn to warm the bench.

It's not what I want, but I think it could work especially if Santiago walks....(leaves the Tigers...)

Edited by STLTiger69

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Look at the at bats. 82 fewer for Raburn and 211 fewer for Santiago. I'm no good at math; does anyone know what Raburn's and Santiago's walk rates would be with Polanco's amount of at bats?

For what it is worth;

If you doubled the amount of AB's with Raburn and Santiago and kept Polanco at the same at bats (42 walks, 44 strike outs in 469 AB's) you'd get this;

Raburn 42 walks, 228 K's in 774 AB's

Santiago 34 walks, 76 K's in 516 AB's

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For what it is worth;

If you doubled the amount of AB's with Raburn and Santiago and kept Polanco at the same at bats (42 walks, 44 strike outs in 469 AB's) you'd get this;

Raburn 42 walks, 228 K's in 774 AB's

Santiago 34 walks, 76 K's in 516 AB's

Meh. That doesn't really work for me.

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Also, the only reason that Polanco's 2011 numbers weren't horrific was because of his unreal April. Look at his season

April (114 PA): .398/.447/.524/.972

After (409 PA): .243/.304/.287/.591

Guess which Polanco is more likely to show up in 2012.

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I don't really get why a ground out is better than a strikeout. Polanco grounded into 15 DP last year, 6 more than Raburn and Santiago combined.

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