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The 2011 Offseason!!

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We already have three 7th-9th relievers. He's kind of low on the "things we need" list, so for what we'd have to give up, it wouldn't be worth it.

I guess I'm just not sold on Dotel. I don't have much faith in him to be a consistent reliever. Plus Soria would be a nice guy to have to take over for Valverde in the future considering we've traded away or let go of our last 38 "future closers"

Also - I would love Oswalt. I don't care how old he is, he would be a #2/#3 on this team. He's more consistent than Scherzer. For that matter, I'd take a flier on Rich Harden as a 3/4 guy too.

One thing is for sure. With as much pitching help as there is available out there, I will not be happy if we go into the season hoping that Turner is our #5 all year. As for the bullpen, I think the last couple years have shown that you can NEVER have too much bullpen help. We were all holding our breath when anyone not named Benoit or Valverde came in at the end of last season, when we began the season with what was supposed to be a solid bullpen. Guys flame out (Perry), guys underperform (Pauley), guys get injured (AlAl)...it just happens. Take as many quality relievers as you can get.

Edited by KleShreen

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Kuroda nearing a deal.

•The Mariners, Diamondbacks, Rockies, Rangers, Red Sox and Yankees were among the teams that informed Brown they were not the team nearing a deal with Kuroda.

Wonder who it is?

...

Bet it's Toronto.

That's probably right. I was following on twitter...all of Canada is depressed about Darvish. They all thought they would get him. I bet management wants to do something soon to allay the depression.

If it's not the Red Sox or Yankees, (and it's definitely not Texas or Anaheim, nor is it Oakland or SF), its either us or Toronto. Kuroda's a win now player, so it only really makes sense for a contending team to sign him. There's not many contending teams out there other than the ones excepted. And the ones that aren't excepted already have tons of pitching: Rays, SF, St. Louis, etc...but I guess it could be St. Louis to replace Jackson.

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That's probably right. I was following on twitter...all of Canada is depressed about Darvish. They all thought they would get him. I bet management wants to do something soon to allay the depression.

Not ALL of Canada Couga! :laugh:

But yes, a ton of my friends are Jays fans and thought it was slam dunk that Darvish was theirs. I think I even saw a tweet from Romero earlier today telling fans to chill out (or something to that effect).

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I don't understand the sentiment, that I've read time and again in this thread, that takes a "It's not that big of a deal" approach to the potential of an off-season in which the Tigers make very few improvements. I've said this before on this board, more than once, but until the team goes 162-0, there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and if said improvements can be made, they should be made.

I believe I may be one of the guys you may be directing this comment at, but I want to be clear that my sentiment is NOT "The Tigers are a 95-win team, so they should stand pat and not make any improvements." Rather, my thought is, "Since the Tigers were a 95-win team last year, I would not be surprised if they did not make any major moves to their roster." Big difference in sentiment.

The Tigers I think are clearly the favorites to repeat the division title, but nothing is guaranteed. Saying "They won 95 games last year" is something of a meaningless statement when it comes to improving the team this off-season. That means they lost 67 games. So can we find a way to reduce that number? To reduce the odds that I will turn on my television at any given time in the Summer of 2012 and see them lose? Or pay for a ticket to sit in Comerica Park (or some other city's baseball establishment) and see them lose, as I did more often than not last year? I don't see what is wrong with wanting that. And given that the team has some pretty significant holes for a 95 win team, it also appears on the outside that they have an unusually easy path to try and improve upon the pre-existing 95 win team.

This also isn't to imply that I think DD & co. are twiddling their thumbs in their office, I'm sure they're working hard to improve the team, this is more about a cabal of posters I've seen who seem to take issue with the fact that people badly want to see the Tigers improve and will be disapointed if they do not (as I would be, if that's how it turns out).

While I might agree with you that the Tigers have some holes I'd like to see address, I do not agree that 67 losses in a season is a clarion call for action, let alone fielding a team that could go 162-0 being a reasonable goal to shoot for. Believing this would lead a team to make the moves the the Couga and G2 fear: paying a high price in top prospects for marginal win gains or, in our nightmare, a decrease in wins.

This is not to say that we shouldn't never try to improve the team simply because it might not work. That's not a good reason to stand pat. But considering the potential cost to us, it would make more sense to make a major move if it can take us from 85 to 88 wins, rather than making the move to take us from 95 to 98 wins. The former situation strengthens our chances to make the postseason; the latter is usually just making points for style.

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Oswalt makes a lot of sense for the Tigers. This writer speculates that one year at 8-9 mil would do the trick.

Free Agent Roy Oswalt: Worth a One-Year Risk? - BoSox Injection - A Boston Red Sox Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More

Also wouldn't mind one year of Javy Vasquez. But we'll probably get somebody like Saunders.

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Oswalt makes a lot of sense for the Tigers. This writer speculates that one year at 8-9 mil would do the trick.

Free Agent Roy Oswalt: Worth a One-Year Risk? - BoSox Injection - A Boston Red Sox Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More

Also wouldn't mind one year of Javy Vasquez. But we'll probably get somebody like Saunders.

Perhaps it could work, but I'd really be worried about Oswalt's back situation.. (Can't we get another pitcher who's health for $8-$9M?)

this really tosses some red flags for me;

"Oswalt saw his fastball velocity drop to 91.4 mph last year which could have been from his lingering back issues"

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Perhaps it could work, but I'd really be worried about Oswalt's back situation.. (Can't we get another pitcher who's health for $8-$9M?)

this really tosses some red flags for me;

"Oswalt saw his fastball velocity drop to 91.4 mph last year which could have been from his lingering back issues"

Looks like he was feeling pretty good by the end of the season. Quite a velocity recovery in his last half dozen starts. No question backs are risky though....

571_P_FA_20110927.png

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I was just thinking of him yesterday at work (Oswalt that is). Wasn't thinking he had signed with anyone yet and I see he hasn't. So yeah I would be all about bringing in a nice vet for one year.

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We could probably deal with his injury issues if he's out for a month or two. Between Oliver/Wilk/Below/Turner/Smyly, I think we have enough depth to cover some sporadic injuries. If Oswalt can give us 4-5 months of solid starting pitching, it would probably be a worthwhile signing.

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Oswalt will be to much for one year. Ditto Kuroda. Best bet is Saunders but even he might be too much. DD wants to get someone at a price he can discard if needed after 3 months for the likes of Turner, Smyly, Oliver etc.

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Pass on Oswalt. The Tigers need a left handed starter. I know they are hard to find, but that's what they need.

So the Tigers should go for a mediocre lefty over a very good righty? Foolish.

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I guess I'm just not sold on Dotel. I don't have much faith in him to be a consistent reliever. Plus Soria would be a nice guy to have to take over for Valverde in the future considering we've traded away or let go of our last 38 "future closers"

Also - I would love Oswalt. I don't care how old he is, he would be a #2/#3 on this team. He's more consistent than Scherzer. For that matter, I'd take a flier on Rich Harden as a 3/4 guy too.

One thing is for sure. With as much pitching help as there is available out there, I will not be happy if we go into the season hoping that Turner is our #5 all year. As for the bullpen, I think the last couple years have shown that you can NEVER have too much bullpen help. We were all holding our breath when anyone not named Benoit or Valverde came in at the end of last season, when we began the season with what was supposed to be a solid bullpen. Guys flame out (Perry), guys underperform (Pauley), guys get injured (AlAl)...it just happens. Take as many quality relievers as you can get.

The thing is, it doesn't matter if you like Dotel or not. We have already signed him, we paid him 3.5 million(quite a bit for a reliever) and we have 3 guys in front of him. There is just no reasonable scenario where it makes sense to add Soria. What is he going to do, long relief? Now if we want to trade for him as a starter, I'll talk. Or if we can trade Valverde or something.

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Oswalt is getting up there in age. Yes, we won with 5 right handed starters last year, but a # five left handed starter would be a lot better and gives other teams a different look

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Pass on Oswalt. The Tigers need a left handed starter. I know they are hard to find, but that's what they need.

Why do they need a left handed starter? Oswalt is better than any left handed starter available not named Gio Gonzalez. And, for the remainder of Oswalts career anyway, they'll put up similar numbers.

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The thing is, it doesn't matter if you like Dotel or not. We have already signed him, we paid him 3.5 million(quite a bit for a reliever) and we have 3 guys in front of him. There is just no reasonable scenario where it makes sense to add Soria. What is he going to do, long relief? Now if we want to trade for him as a starter, I'll talk. Or if we can trade Valverde or something.

There's no reason to trade one of your limited good prospects for a reliever, unless they're going to step into the closers role right away. Even then, it's still not a good idea. For what they'd want for him, it really makes no sense, and with how easy it is to just sign closers with no compensation in FA, I'd rather see them address that situation in the offseason.

For what it's worth, I do think they'll acquire another reliever, maybe two, via FA or trade. Just not someone as high profile as this.

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The thing is, it doesn't matter if you like Dotel or not. We have already signed him, we paid him 3.5 million(quite a bit for a reliever) and we have 3 guys in front of him. There is just no reasonable scenario where it makes sense to add Soria. What is he going to do, long relief? Now if we want to trade for him as a starter, I'll talk. Or if we can trade Valverde or something.

Assuming Dotel fills Al Al's role and Coke adds another 30+ innings of relief work, there were still over 200 appearances and over 230 innings of work handled by a flotsam of 5+ ERA/FIP guys in 2011, probably none of which will provide significantly better performances in 2012. Granted they won 95 games with this crew in 2011, but I think if the team repeated its overall performance level in 2012 they'd be just as likely to win 85 or 90 games (in other words, their wins exceeded their general performance, IMHO).

In short, they need to look for improvement wherever they can. I'm not saying Soria is the answer, and I think paying big $$ or trading away big chips on the bullpen would be a big mistake, but in no way do I consider their bullpen all set.

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Assuming Dotel fills Al Al's role and Coke adds another 30+ innings of relief work, there were still over 200 appearances and over 230 innings of work handled by a flotsam of 5+ ERA/FIP guys in 2011, probably none of which will provide significantly better performances in 2012. Granted they won 95 games with this crew in 2011, but I think if the team repeated its overall performance level in 2012 they'd be just as likely to win 85 or 90 games (in other words, their wins exceeded their general performance, IMHO).

In short, they need to look for improvement wherever they can. I'm not saying Soria is the answer, and I think paying big $$ or trading away big chips on the bullpen would be a big mistake, but in no way do I consider their bullpen all set.

I think we most certainly have plenty of options who can give us a sub 5 ERA/FIP. Schlereth didn't last year, but I think he shows enough to get a fair shot and if he can't do it, a guy like Ni or Below could step into that 2nd lefty role. Below or Wilk will also be candidates for a long relief role , as will Balester from the right side. I think he or Pauley is plenty capable for that role. I'm not a huge fan of either and don't want them in high leverage spots,but that is a role they can handle capably. Guys like Marte and Villareal are also options.

I don't mind looking at improving the bullpen, but for the roles we have left, it makes no sense to spend big. At most they are in the market for some minimum salary, ST invite types in the Zumaya mold.

Also Coke is more like a 60 IP guy, not 30

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I thought we needed a reliever like Dotel back when I thought that AlAl was going to be healthy going into 2012. But I think with the trade for Balester, the organization thinks they are pretty set with the bullpen, otherwise they wouldn't have dealt for a guy with no options. The only thing that might change that, is if they see Balester as a SP. That would be surprising, since he didn't excel at it in the minors, but trying to see all angles of this and it is a possibility.

Also, I don't think people should overlook Pauley, and I hope the organization doesn't since they bothered to trade for the guy. We bought at peak value, however, just because he's not an elite reliever doesn't mean he isn't useful. He's your classic middle reliever or long man. Roughly a league average performer, and still pretty cheap. As your 6th or 7th RP, he's fine. If he's replacing innings pitched by Thomas, Gonzalez, Purcey and Perry... that's an improvement.

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Yah, Pauley is better than guys like Perry,Purcey and Gonzalez were for us last year by a good margin IMO.

Also, I'm not too convinced Wilk or Below can't be as good as a guy like Saunders, without spending 5 plus mil and blocking Turner. I'd like to see what they can do honestly.

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Also Coke is more like a 60 IP guy, not 30

If used properly, he's not a 60 inning guy. Unless you just don't care about the quality of those innings. Leyland needs to pick his spots with Coke much better than he does, his splits are telling.

I like Coke, but the way he's used, he's just a league average reliever. He could be much better if used appropriately.

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