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Yoda

The 2011 Offseason!!

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Call me crazy, but I love this time of year. Here are a few reasons why:

The players FINALLY get a much needed rest. Alex will probably sleep for two days.

The awards are given out and our Tigers should be well-represented.

The winter GM meetings, lots of entertaining trade rumors.

Free Agency

Here's what I REALLY like about this offseason... the Tigers had a great year but have a TON of room for improvement. I really don't see DD sitting on his hands.

INFIELD

Obviously the area that needs the most improvement. 2B is an absolute must. 3B is high up there as well, but not as dire. Wilson is, at best, average. They really can't just settle for that. Get some range and a guy that can get on base.

OUTFIELD

Boesch and Jackson are probably set in stone. I would love to see them improve LF. I have a feeling Delmon will be back, but they really have to look at getting a guy that can get on base AND play some defense.

DH

Set.

ROTATION

Probably set, at JV, Max, Fister, Porcello, and probably Turner. They COULD give Turner more time in AAA if a reasonable option presents itself, but I think Turner may be ready. And for those already loading the "but he looked bat up here this year" arguments, so did JV in 2005. A lot goes on in the offseason and I don't think it would take a lot of work to get Jacob where he needs to be. He will be much-improved come April. I don't see them spending a bunch of money on a starter.

BP

Al, Potato, Benoit, keep. The rest, do as you please. And I'm calling it now. Zumaya will pitch 60 innings next year. And get Schlereth a uniform that fits.

Edited by Yoda

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2B and a 3B stop-gap

A Backup for Avila

A 5th starter

Bullpen help

Better overall depth within the roster, essentially

Jackson(second year slump) and Alburqurque(injuries) need to rebound as well.

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DD better build that bullpen. It has zero depth; we relied too heavily on Benoit and Valverde. (need more veteran guys obviously)

An actual lead off man would be great. Wouldn't mind it if they went after Reyes.

Haven't looked at the list of free agents but those are the 2 areas that I want them to upgrade.

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2B and a 3B stop-gap

A Backup for Avila

A 5th starter

Bullpen help

Better overall depth within the roster, essentially

Jackson(second year slump) and Alburqurque(injuries) need to rebound as well.

Although Victor staying healthy is a problem, I see them going with him again as the "back-up" catcher. Stash Santos in AAA if they need him.

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What's it matter if they're veterans? I just want good baseball players.

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I would look at:

2B

fourth/fifth starter

middle reliever

I don't think the Tigers need to make a ton of moves and/or a few splashy moves.

I would keep the starting four together. I would also keep Valverde, Benoit and Coke. Could be persuaded to sell high on Alburquerque, but I think he stays.

Edited by catswithbats

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Sorry this post is so long, it is therapy after a bad night.....

C - Alex should start no more than 125 games next year. So they need a backup and hopefully one that isn't a total black hole at the plate. I would make an exception if Inge would agree to do it, I mean, they finished first with him in the lineup almost every day, having him play 30-40 games at catcher would not hurt that much, I think he could hold up defensively. But if he doesn't agree to help in that position, there is no room for him on the team because they MUST have a backup there and the only way Victor Martinez ever plays catcher again is if two guys get hurt in one game - he is done there.

1b - yeah, right

2b - I know a lot of folks here hate Jose Reyes, but he solves your leadoff dilemma, even if he only goes back to his career averages. He'd be a liability at 2B or SS. I'd put him at 2nd, why mess with Jhonny who was almost flawless at SS. A lot of people here want Kelly Johnson, I guess he would be cheaper than Reyes and better defensively, but I don't think he's that good.

SS - Jhonny had an amazing year. Let's hope he stays in good shape.

3B - No on Inge, unless he agrees to catch 30+games. If they make a big splash in the rotation or with another position I could live with Raburn/Kelly here for another year or two until Nick Castellanos is ready, but Nick is pretty brutal defensively. Betemit won't be back. I like the idea of making a trade for Chase Headley - we don't need power from this position, we just don't need a black hole. I think they could get Headldy maybe for Andy Oliver straight up......I'd stay away from Aramis Ramirez because he is gonna want ridiculous money and I think once he starts to drop, its gonna be off a cliff, like Magglio.

RF - Brennen Boesch is the guy here, no gripes about that.

CF - No problem with with AJ there, but he should not be hitting leadoff anymore.

LF - I think Delmon stays if they can keep him for under 6. He's got some flaws, but also showed to be clutch. His best offensive years are still ahead of him, but for such a young guy he should be more than a DH. His defense is terrible. I can't see Dirks being a starter. Cody Ross or Jason Kubel would certainly be on the list if they are looking for a cheaper option. Carlos Beltran if they are looking to make a big splash.

Starting rotation.

They seem set with JV, Fister, Scherzer and Porcello - All young and healthy. That fifth spot - you know they will want a lefty. Snatching Mark Buehrle away from the White Sox would be a great feat, but how much will he command? As far as homegrown talent I would put Drew Smyly and Duane Below ahead of Jacob Turner right now. Turner needs another year to marinate and he probably could stand to add a few pounds too. I think I'd stay away from C.J. Wilson, who I think is gonna command around $17 million a year and he's good, but not that good.

Pen.

Velverde, Benoit, Coke, Albuquerque, Marte and if he doesn't make the rotation Below would be solid. I think Zumaya is done (don't want that to happen, I just think it is what it is). I don't want to see Ryan Perry, David Pauley or Daniel Schlereth again. Enough with them - Schlereth can start the season in Toldeo because he's left handed and breathing. I am sure they can find an affordable option on the open market better than those three. If only Al Al could harness his powers for good he could be amazing.

Free agent shopping.

Luxury items

Carlos Beltran - Perfect for LF, but heavy price with lots of injuries

Mark Buehrle - They need a durable, good lefty and wouldn't it be great to stick it to the White Sox?

Aramis Ramirez - He is still good, but he's gonna fall off a cliff in a year or two.

Jose Reyes - Contract year, but career averages would be an upgrade over 2b and could fit in on a heavily Latino team.

C.J. Wilson - Yes, had two really good years, but someone will really overpay.

Smart shoppers

David DeJesus - not at the top of my list, but worth consideration

Ramon Hernandez - he'd accept a role as backup and could do it for long stretches if needed

Omar Infante - I think he's better than any current 2b option, but my impression is that Leyalnd doesn't like him much.

Kelly Johnson - I prefer the more high risk/high reward Reyes because they need a leadoff guy so badly.

Jason Kubel - Have him do it to the Twins instead of doing it to us, but we already have a version of him called Brennan Boesch, who has more upside.

Hiroki Kuroda - Not bad for a 5th starter if they want to go in an all righty rotation.

Paul Maholm - Well, at least he's left handed, but he'd take Brad Penny's place as a whipping boy.

Jose Molina - Maybe solid as that all important backup C.

Cody Ross - Would not have the potential bang of Delmon for around the same price, but would be more consistent and much better with the glove.

Brian Schneider - There are better options, but I wouldn't complain if they signed him for the right money.

Josh Willingham Very similar to Delmon offensively and salary-wise, but a big improvement over Delmon defensively.

Bargain Basement

Aaron Miles - He'd be an upgrade at 2nd right now.

Jamey Carroll - One year band-aid

Rod Barajas - Ditto on the band-aid thing.

My (what I think is realistic) dream roster next year

Rotation

Verlander

Buehrle

Fister

Porcello

Scherzer

Bullpen

Velverde

Benoit

Coke

Marte

Albuquerque

Below

Pitching Machine

Starting Lineup

2b Reyes

RF Boesch

3b Headley

1b Cabrera

DH Martinez

LF Willingham

SS Peralta

C Avila

CF Jackson

Bench

Kelly (RF, LF, 3B, 1B, CF)

Inge (C mostly, because they'd have to pay him anyway)

Raburn (RF, CF, LF, 2b, 3B, 1B)

Santiago (2B, SS)

I would like to have someone a bit faster off the bench though.

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No Reyes, no Beltran, no Wilson. We didn't sign any big names (unless you consider V Mart a big name but I'm talking huge stuff) last winter and we did fine. We need to fill holes, not build a playoff team because we already have one. We need players to fill the shortcomings.

What we need is someone who can play defense at second. I really like the idea of Jamey Carroll unless we can find someone else to play D. The four-headed monster had too many errors and really didn't do much at the plate.

I'm fine with Inge at third. He showed this postseason that he can hit and play some D and I think we'll see that Brandon next season. He won't come near .300 but he'll be above .200, my guess is around .220

Santos should be on the 25 man roster next year if only to give Avila a rest every now and then, which he really needs.

Santiago should be re-signed and we need to dangle him to see if we can get anything out of him. We need a bullpen arm so if he can bring someone competent in then let him go and have Worth take over his spot. Raburn should stay on the bench as a late inning pinch hitter only.

Kelly should stay if only because he can provide some pop, play adequate defense and can play every position.

Either Turner needs to be #5 or someone needs to be brought in for a year and we'll see how Turner is in AAA.

Let Delmon walk, he was awesome this year but he's an injury risk and his defense is just jaw-dropping bad. I think our biggest signing this offseason needs to be for a left fielder. Bat first but isn't a liability with the glove. Jackson stays in center and Boesch plays right.

Zumaya could be back next year which could be huge for us, he won't have to be overused anymore which could be key to keeping him around. If Coke and Al Al can show their 2010 and 2011 forms, respectively, then there is no question we'd have a top 3 bullpen, possibly the best, in the majors.

I don't really know anyone we could go for in the bullpen but I'd rather trade for one than sign. I'd like Matt Capps if we could get him to be a 7th inning man.

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Oh, lineups and stuff

1. Jamey Carroll 2B

2. Brennan Boesch RF

3. Miguel Cabrera 1B

4. Victor Martinez DH

5. Jhonny Peralta SS

6. Andy Dirks LF

7. Alex Avila C

8. Austin Jackson CF

9. Brandon Inge 3B

Rotation:

1. Justin Verlander

2. Doug Fister

3. Max Scherzer

4. Rick Porcello

5. Jacob Turner

Bullpen:

MU Ryan Perry

LR Duane Below

MR Al Alburquerque

MR Phil Coke

SU Matt Capps

SU Joaquin Benoit

CL Jose Valverde

Bench:

Don Kelly (any position)

Ryan Raburn (OF, 2B, 3B)

Danny Worth/Ramon Santiago (SS, 2B)

Omir Santos ©

This team WILL make the playoffs. I'd love to see what we do at the trade deadline next year as well. I just really hope Scherzer finds his 2010/postseason (minus tonight) form.

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I also made this

Contracts

2011 Payroll: $106,953,000

Leaving:

Magglio Ordonez (-$10 MM), Carlos Guillen (-$13 MM), Brad Penny (-$3 MM), Joel Zumaya ($1.4 MM), Ramon Santiago (-$1.35 MM)

Total: -$28.75 MM ($78.203 MM)

Raises:

Miguel Cabrera (+$1 MM, $21 MM), Justin Verlander (+$7.25 MM, $20 MM), Victor Martinez (+$1 MM, $13 MM), Jhonny Peralta (+ 250K, $5.5 MM), Ryan Raburn ($800K, $2.1 MM)

Total: +$10.3 MM

Current 2012 Payroll: $88.503 MM

Options:

Jose Valverde (Team Option for $9 MM), Rick Porcello (Team Option for $1.344 MM)

Possible Options: $10.344 MM

Difference in Payroll (without options): -$18.450 MM

With Options: -$8.106 MM

Tell me if you see anything wrong

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Let Delmon walk, he was awesome this year but he's an injury risk and his defense is just jaw-dropping bad. I think our biggest signing this offseason needs to be for a left fielder. Bat first but isn't a liability with the glove. Jackson stays in center and Boesch plays right.

Who would you replace Elmon with? The free agent LFs don't really excite me, but I haven't finished reading through the list on MLBT yet.

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Who would you replace Elmon with? The free agent LFs don't really excite me, but I haven't finished reading through the list on MLBT yet.

There's nothing except Josh Willingham and Cuddyer. They are both Type A and they're not worth a first rounder. I'd just give Dirks a shot. He impressed me in his first year. He has some sneaky power and can get on base and get some hits but he also plays great defense. Boesch would have the worst glove in the outfield next year and he's really not that bad. Our defense could easily go from below average to very good next year.

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Early off-season wants...

A lead-off hitter, a lead-off hitter and...

A lead-off hitter.

I want a guy whose OBP is good, preferably really good. Get me someone who will get on base and actually give the team a chance for multiple runs to be batted in by the two, three and four guys in the line-up.

Cut/Not Brought Back...

David Purcey/RP, Enrique Gonzalez/RP, Brad Penny/RP, Wilson Betimiet/3B, Carlos Guillen/2B, Magglio Ordonez/RF

Re-sign...

Delmon Young/RF, Jose Valverde/CP

Free Agent Signings...

Kelly Johnson/2B/3B/Previously from Toronto

Oliver Perez/SP/Previously from NY Mets

Chad Qualles/RP/Previously from San Diego

Trades...

Toronto Gets: Ryan Perry, Will Rhymes, Drew Smyly, Daniel Fields, Jose Ortega and/or Avisail Garcia plus a PTBN

Detroit Gets: Yunel Escobar and Jon Rauch

Starting Line-up...

#1: 2B/Yunel Escobar

#2: RF/Brennan Boesch

#3: 1B/Miguel Cabrera

#4: DH/Victor Martinez

#5: LF/Delmon Young

#6: C/Alex Avila

#7: SS/Johnny Peralta

#8: 3B/Kelly Johnson

#9: CF/Austin Jackson

Bench

Don Kelly/1B/2B/3B/LF/RF

Brandon Inge/C/3B

Ryan Raburn/1B/2B/LF/RF

Ramon Santiago/2B/SS/3B

Starting Rotation...

#1: Justin Verlander

#2: Doug Fister

#3: Max Shcerzer

#4: Rick Porcello

#5: Oliver Perez

Bullpen...

Righties:

-Jon Rauch

-Al Alburquerque

-Chad Qualles

-Joaquin Benoit

Lefties:

-Daniel Schlereth

-Phil Coke

Closer:

-Jose Valverde

Edited by Mr.TaterSalad

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Might as well start talking about it now.

Link

First Basemen

Russell Branyan LAA

Jorge Cantu SD

Prince Fielder MIL

Brad Hawpe SD

Eric Hinske ATL *

Ross Gload PHI

Nick Johnson CLE

Derrek Lee BAL

Xavier Nady ARI

David Ortiz BOS

Lyle Overbay PIT

Carlos Pena CHC

Albert Pujols STL

Jim Thome MIN

Second Basemen

Clint Barmes HOU

Willie Bloomquist ARI *

Orlando Cabrera CLE

Robinson Cano NYY *

Jamey Carroll LAD

Luis Castillo NYM

Alex Cora WAS

Craig Counsell MIL

Mark Ellis OAK

Carlos Guillen DET

Jerry Hairston Jr. MIL

Aaron Hill ARI *

Omar Infante FLA

Joe Inglett HOU

Kelly Johnson TOR

Adam Kennedy SEA

Felipe Lopez TB

Jose Lopez FLA

Aaron Miles LAD

Brandon Phillips CIN *

Shortstops

Yuniesky Betancourt MIL *

Ronny Cedeno PIT

Adam Everett CLE

Rafael Furcal LAD

Alex Gonzalez ATL

Cesar Izturis BAL

John McDonald TOR

Augie Ojeda ARI

Jose Reyes NYM

Nick Punto STL

Edgar Renteria CIN

Jose Reyes NYM

Jimmy Rollins PHI

Ramon Santiago DET

Marco Scutaro BOS *

Jack Wilson SEA

Third Basemen

Wilson Betemit DET

Casey Blake LAD *

Eric Chavez NYY

Mark DeRosa SF

Greg Dobbs PHI

Edwin Encarnacion TOR *

Wes Helms FLA

Melvin Mora ARI

Aramis Ramirez CHC

Miguel Tejada SF

Omar Vizquel CWS

Catchers

Rod Barajas LAD

Henry Blanco ARI

Ramon Castro CWS

Ryan Doumit PIT

Ramon Hernandez CIN

Jason Kendall KC

Gerald Laird STL

Jose Molina TOR

Yadier Molina STL *

Dioner Navarro LAD

Jorge Posada NYY

Ivan Rodriguez WAS

Brian Schneider PHI

Kelly Shoppach TB *

Chris Snyder PIT *

Matt Treanor KC

Jason Varitek BOS

Outfielders

Bobby Abreu LAA *

Rick Ankiel WAS

Carlos Beltran SF

Milton Bradley SEA

Pat Burrell SF

Mike Cameron BOS

Coco Crisp OAK

Michael Cuddyer MIN

Jack Cust SEA

Johnny Damon TB

David DeJesus OAK

J.D. Drew BOS

Kosuke Fukudome CHC

Jonny Gomes CIN

Gabe Gross OAK

Vladimir Guerrero BAL

Scott Hairston NYM

Willie Harris NYM

Raul Ibanez PHI

Conor Jackson OAK

Andruw Jones NYY

Austin Kearns CLE

Jason Kubel MIN

Ryan Ludwick SD

Hideki Matsui OAK

Nate McLouth ATL *

Jason Michaels HOU

Laynce Nix WAS

Magglio Ordonez DET

Juan Pierre CWS

Juan Rivera TOR

Cody Ross SF

Grady Sizemore CLE *

Matt Stairs WAS

Nick Swisher NYY *

Marcus Thames LAD

Josh Willingham OAK

Starting Pitchers

Mark Buehrle CWS

Bruce Chen KC

Aaron Cook COL *

Kyle Davies TOR

Ryan Dempster CHC *

Justin Duchscherer OAK

Zach Duke ARI *

Jeff Francis KC

Freddy Garcia NYY

Jon Garland LAD

Aaron Harang SD

Rich Harden OAK

Livan Hernandez WAS

Edwin Jackson STL

Kenshin Kawakami ATL

Scott Kazmir LAA

Hiroki Kuroda LAD

Rodrigo Lopez CHC

Paul Maholm PIT

John Maine COL

Jason Marquis WAS

Kevin Millwood NYY

Scott Olsen PIT *

Roy Oswalt PHI *

Brad Penny DET

Oliver Perez NYM

Joel Pineiro LAA

CC Sabathia NYY (may opt out)

Carlos Silva NYY

Javier Vazquez FLA

Adam Wainwright STL *

Tim Wakefield BOS

Chien-Ming Wang WAS

Brandon Webb ARI

C.J. Wilson TEX

Chris Young NYM

Relief Pitchers

Danys Baez PHI

Miguel Batista STL

Matt Belisle COL

Heath Bell SD

Rafael Betancourt COL

Blaine Boyer

Jonathan Broxton LAD

Shawn Camp TOR

Matt Capps MIN

Todd Coffey MIL

Clay Condrey MIN

Francisco Cordero CIN *

Lance Cormier TB

Juan Cruz TB

Octavio Dotel STL *

Kyle Farnsworth TB *

Randy Flores NYY

Frank Francisco TOR

Ryan Franklin STL

Jason Frasor CWS *

Chad Gaudin WAS

Mike Gonzalez TEX

John Grabow CHC

LaTroy Hawkins MIL

Brad Lidge PHI *

Scott Linebrink ATL

Javier Lopez SF

Ryan Madson PHI

Damaso Marte NYY *

Sergio Mitre NYY

Joe Nathan MIN *

Hideki Okajima BOS

Darren Oliver TEX

Jonathan Papelbon BOS

Joel Peralta TB

Chad Qualls SD *

Jon Rauch TOR *

Chris Ray TEX

Dennys Reyes BOS

Arthur Rhodes TEX *

Fernando Rodney LAA

Francisco Rodriguez MIL

George Sherrill ATL

Rafael Soriano NYY (may opt out)

Brian Tallet TOR

Koji Uehara TEX *

Jose Valverde DET

Tyler Walker WAS

Kerry Wood CHC

Jamey Wright SEA

Michael Wuertz OAK

Joel Zumaya DET

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We need another SP, though I think Turner might challenge for a spot in the spring. 2B is a must. Any chance Castellanos will be ready to replace Inge/Betemit?

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I think we are 1 good starter, a good reliever, and a few bats away from a world series victory. I would like to see a new 3rd basemen with some speed and another outfielder with some speed. I could live with Santiago and the kid who hit over 300 in AAA Rhymes swapping at 2nd. Rhymes has some speed and bunting abilities that the tigers really need.

Edited by sarulle

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We need another SP, though I think Turner might challenge for a spot in the spring. 2B is a must. Any chance Castellanos will be ready to replace Inge/Betemit?

I could live with a rotation with Turner as the 5th starter but I think ideally, you would want him to start the year at AAA.

Verlander is not likely to repeat his performance next year. Having Fister for a full year should more than offset that. Scherzer is what he is right now. I don't see a lot of improvement or dropoff. Porcello has lots of room for improvment if he can find a way to maintain his stuff deeper into games. But I think the bottom line with pitching is that you just never know. Injuries, loss of velocity, and bad luck, etc. can turn a deep rotation bad in a heartbeat. I would love for the Tigers to add another quality arm.

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I know Delmon Young is going to be a hot topic in this thread. He won over a lot of people with his home runs in the playoffs. And the way the ball jumps of his bat is tantalizing for fans. But when you actually look at his numbers over his career, it is really hard to justify making him our everyday left fielder with the defense he brings.

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We need top of the order hitters with speed, bullpen arms, a backup for Avila and a LH SP because imo Turner needs another year.

Austin Jackson must not be allowed to hit leadoff under any circumstances.

We can upgrade LF, CF, RF, 2nd base, 3rd base, backup catcher, 5th SP and 3 or so BP arms. We could be ok with an outfield of Young, Jackson and Boesch but I wouldnt be so quick to lock them in until they have the problems with the top of the order and team speed corrected. The BP, other than Benoit and Valverde, needs a complete refit, they suck almost as much as Jackson leading off. I can live with an Inge//Betemit platoon at third as long as they are sure Castellanos wont outgrow 3rd and he will be ready in 2013.

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How bout bring Pudge back on the cheap, as long as he's not gonna throw a hissy fit being a backup. Other than Pudge, the only other catcher on the list that gives me a tingle is Shoppach but I doubt TB will let him go.

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Castellanos isn't close to being ready, unfortunately. And I seriously doubt they waste a spot on a backup catcher.

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Time for some thread merges LOL.

I'm a bit fatigued with signing aged, injury prone players like Beltran. I'm keen on Jose Reyes. Yes he's injury prone but still only 28

and a real force both defensively and at the top of a lineup. I doubt he ever hits .337 again so it's going to require

quite an overpay. I'm guessing seven years at around 18 million per?

If you sign Reyes then he's your leadoff, move Jackson to ninth, shift Peralta to third base. You have upgraded on both offense and defense.

Then I could actually live with an OF comprised of Boesch/Jackson/Raburn

Delmon Young can not play the outfield. He was a useful fill-in but I'd rather have Boesch and Raburn out there - he's that bad.

Our other area that needs a big boost is middle relief. Definitely keep Coke and Schlereth though, unless a trade scenario makes sense.

Edited by DaYooperASBDT

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