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ROMAD1

City of Detroit and Tiger Stadium Plans

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You know why they didn't approve it? Because it didn't come with $100 handshakes that's why.

Nothing happens in Detroit without a bribe. Even in the Bing years. The city government is a ****ing sewer.

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Detroit is basically Adamo Group's personal piggy bank.

I love the idea of historic preservation, reuse, and the creativity involved in doing those things. I also like new architecture, cutting-edge design, etc.

As the old saying goes, "There is a time and place for everything."

If a dynamic development were to demand use of the Tiger Stadium site, I'd be there for the groundbreaking. I would implode the train station myself if it meant jobs, development, and vitality. You think I'd give a damn about the Madison-Lenox or the Statler if new, prospering developments took their place? I would go toe-to-toe with preservationists in that case.

The market doesn't justify the demolition when there's nothing to take its place. Plenty of abandoned buildings are not up to code but few are in need of emergency demolition. The city on the verge of bankruptcy just funnels that money back to the contractors.

If there's one ingredient that real estate developers in Detroit have an overabundance of, it's wide-open, vacant land. Over 40 square miles of the city are of cleared land. Tear it down - but only if you need to.

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You know why they didn't approve it? Because it didn't come with $100 handshakes that's why.

Nothing happens in Detroit without a bribe. Even in the Bing years. The city government is a ****ing sewer.

Absolutely.

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If somebody could make money on Tiger Stadium's site they would have. Why would Wal Mart or Meijer or Home Depot want to build in that location? Who would shop there? Also I'm not sure the footprint is big enough to support a big box retailer.

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I try to love Detroit - I really do. I get defensive when outsiders put it down. How much would it really take to maintain a field and put up some simple fencing and bleachers and maybe a plaque or two commemorating certain spots like home plate or where the old fences used to be. There are people that hold that ground sacred that would do it for next to nothing. Wouldn't you love to get a bunch of people from this board together for a friendly game there?

One of the folks interviewed on the news thinks that is where the new hockey stadium is going. That is not where it will be....it's going to be 3 blocks behind the Hockeytown Cafe.

It's just sitting there, begging to be cared for and people are willing to do it.

If a Meijer or Wal-Mart wanted to come to Detroit (and pay the bribe money to get a store there) there is plenty of vacant space all over the city - and in more populated areas than Michigan & Trumbull.

Don't believe what anyone is saying........this is about bribes and kickbacks, not about preserving what most of us would consider sacred ground.

At least the rotting empty space will fit the motif of the rest of that area. How's that Central Depot Renovation coming along, Mattie?

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I try to love Detroit - I really do. I get defensive when outsiders put it down. How much would it really take to maintain a field and put up some simple fencing and bleachers and maybe a plaque or two commemorating certain spots like home plate or where the old fences used to be. There are people that hold that ground sacred that would do it for next to nothing. Wouldn't you love to get a bunch of people from this board together for a friendly game there?

One of the folks interviewed on the news thinks that is where the new hockey stadium is going. That is not where it will be....it's going to be 3 blocks behind the Hockeytown Cafe. It's just sitting there, begging to be cared for and people are willing to do it.

If a Meijer or Wal-Mart wanted to come to Detroit (and pay the bribe money to get a store there) there is plenty of vacant space all over the city - and in more populated areas than Michigan & Trumbull.

Don't believe what anyone is saying........this is about bribes and kickbacks, not about preserving what most of us would consider sacred ground.

At least the rotting empty space will fit the motif of the rest of that area. How's that Central Depot Renovation coming along, Mattie?

I have a strong feeling that the new arena will be just north of I-75 and west of Woodward where those surface parking lots are right now. I have no inside knowledge, but there is a lot of evidence:

a) Ilitch is an investor in light rail. He'll want the light rail to be tied with the arena and there is a random stop in that neighborhood if you look at the detailed plans. Stop would only make sense if there is planned development.

b) Over the last four years there has been a mystery buyer grabbing up a ton of land in that four block area. There was just another article last week...

Business | Detroit's Temple Street attracting attention from mysterious buyers | The Detroit News

c) With Midtown and downtown continuing to improve, this would absolutely help connect the neighborhoods - especially if Ilitch decided to build some residential in there.

I may be wrong, but I just have a suspicion.

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across Woodward from those new-ish condos? That would be sweet.

I agree with Foster's comments. I believe there is an element to this city's leaders that want to stick it to Whitey and this is an easy way to do it.

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across Woodward from those new-ish condos? That would be sweet.

I agree with Foster's comments. I believe there is an element to this city's leaders that want to stick it to Whitey and this is an easy way to do it.

Yeah, that sounds right. Fight the years of racism (whites at blacks) in Detroit with more racism (blacks at whites). The gift that keeps on giving. Are we getting to a point where most of the people are not old enough to remember a pre-Coleman Young Detroit? Not that I thought the riots in '67 were right or anything, but I can understand why it happen (from what I have read about the times).

Greed.

Corruption

Racism

This stuff never ends, does it.

And yes, I could see the arena where you speculated, monkeynuts (it's funny to type that). It's gonna be somewhere around that general area - walking distance from Comerica/Fox Theatre. It is NOT going to be at Michigan & Trumbull - to think that is a form of genuine insanity.

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I agree with the fact that you have to preserve architecture and history. I think for a lot of people are used to glittering new things...Detroit is bad at preservation for sure.

I think that you have to preserve *some* architecture and history. If you look at a city like NYC, they do that in some places, but don't let it bother them in most instances, and it works to their advantabe.

I think vacant lots > vacant buildings.

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And yes, I could see the arena where you speculated, monkeynuts (it's funny to type that). It's gonna be somewhere around that general area - walking distance from Comerica/Fox Theatre. It is NOT going to be at Michigan & Trumbull - to think that is a form of genuine insanity.

It will most certainly be in the Foxtown area. In regards to the lots right behind the theatre...sadly I think Ilitch is prefectly content leaving those as money-making surface parking lots for the forseeable future.

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I think vacant lots > vacant buildings.

Man, we agree on most everything, but I must say we are firmly in different camps on that one. To each his own.

One footnote - I'm talking about historically significant vacant buildings. Trust me, I'm happy with demo'ing 60's cheese graters - just not gorgeous early 20th century masterpieces.

Edited by monkeynuts

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I think that you have to preserve *some* architecture and history. If you look at a city like NYC, they do that in some places, but don't let it bother them in most instances, and it works to their advantabe.

I think vacant lots > vacant buildings.

I don't argue that you can have a mix. But, the really good architecture should be preserved as art in and of itself and put to use. The city can be a draw if there is enough of the good stuff kept in an amongst the glittering spires of the new.

Sonic has nailed this with the corruption angle too.

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I don't argue that you can have a mix. But, the really good architecture should be preserved as art in and of itself and put to use. The city can be a draw if there is enough of the good stuff kept in an amongst the glittering spires of the new.

+1

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I'll say this...my Nephew from Texas who is 18 and not exactly what I'd call an art aficionado pulled me toward the Book Cadillac last time we had half an hour before game time because he thought it looked cool. Shame the stuff around was looking pretty rough.

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I'll say this...my Nephew from Texas who is 18 and not exactly what I'd call an art aficionado pulled me toward the Book Cadillac last time we had half an hour before game time because he thought it looked cool. Shame the stuff around was looking pretty rough.

...and some people would prefer to see the Book-Cadillac be a vacant lot.

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Some FYI:

Wayne County boats 12 National Historic Landmarks:

http://www.cr.nps.gov/nhl/designations/Lists/MI01.pdf

And 39 places are highlighted here:

Historic Places in Detroit

The Fox Theater was saved, and many others, but not everything is - or can be. The old Lincoln auto plant met the wrecking ball in 2002:

Withdrawal of Lincoln Motor Company Plant, National Historic Landmarks Program (NHL)

Edited by DaYooperASBDT

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I know someone who worked at Quicken. They aren't exactly glamor jobs. Base pay is $10 an hour and you're basically a telemarketer.

So, $400 a week for an indoor desk job. Not bad for entry-level. Beats picking lettuce. But if now, these are also the jobs that Americans won't do, God help us all.

Here's a secret -- Freedom doesn't work if we eliminate the consequences of poor choices.

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Just thinking about what could be in Detroit...you have to wonder why it isn't already so...land is available. What force keeps the big box retailers out? Maybe its the publicly traded companies don't want to explain to their shareholders that they took that risk and or had didn't get enough tax breaks from the city. You have to wonder what externalities they would get from being downtown and what business they would get for the tradeoff of people constantly trying to rip them off and being a magnet for crime.

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Just thinking about what could be in Detroit...you have to wonder why it isn't already so...land is available. What force keeps the big box retailers out? Maybe its the publicly traded companies don't want to explain to their shareholders that they took that risk and or had didn't get enough tax breaks from the city. You have to wonder what externalities they would get from being downtown and what business they would get for the tradeoff of people constantly trying to rip them off and being a magnet for crime.

I remember when I lived in Detroit I wasn't too far from the Bellair shopping center at 8 Mile and Van Dyke. I would go into the Target or Toys R Us and it was a jungle in there. Kids riding bikes through the store, open packages everywhere where things had obviously been stolen. It just wasn't a profitable store. It has nothing to do with taxes. When they open stores in Detroit they just get robbed. It isn't worth it. I was in high school when that Target was opened and didn't even bother applying for a job there. I ended up getting hired at the Target in Eastland. Yes land is cheap, but what the hell else does Detroit have to offer over a place like Chicago?

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So, $400 a week for an indoor desk job. Not bad for entry-level. Beats picking lettuce. But if now, these are also the jobs that Americans won't do, God help us all.

Here's a secret -- Freedom doesn't work if we eliminate the consequences of poor choices.

Touting your economic turnaround by adding $10 an hour jobs is laughable. Does Chicago get excited when they add a $10 an hour job?

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Chicago hasn't grown. They've lost a million people since 1950. Why would building new buildings make Detroit Houston and not Chicago? Some buildings aren't worth salvaging. Like Tiger Stadium. Sure you could make something nice out of but really what function does a 50,000 seat, 100 year old stadium have? I suggest replacing some of the old buildings that need serious repair with something modern that will attract business from other states. It's nice that Dan Gilbert is investing in these buildings, but all he's doing is moving jobs from Livonia, or wherever he was headquartered to Detroit. Firms outside of Detroit don't see Detroit as a viable option.

I know this is a month old, but I couldn't let this one go. Your statement about Chicago not having grown and losing population over the past 50 years, while true, shows remarkable ignorance to the fact that the Chicagoland area has grown quite heavily over the past 50 years. In 1950, the edge of the Chicago suburbs (on the west side) was probably midway through DuPage County, perhaps a 15-20 mile distance. Nowadays, growth has stretched all the way out into Kane County, past Randall Road, all the way to ILL Route 47. In about 20-30 years, it'll probably stretch all the way to DeKalb, 65-70 miles away from the city center.

Detroit, while sprawling in it's own right, has not grown in this sort of fashion. So, while your statement about Chicago declining in population is technically correct, it's important to take context into account here.

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Touting your economic turnaround by adding $10 an hour jobs is laughable. Does Chicago get excited when they add a $10 an hour job?

I don't know or care what Chicago does. What's wrong with entry level jobs paying 33% higher than minimum wage? Nothing, except that people think starting at the bottom is some sort of insult instead of some sort of opportunity.

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I know this is a month old, but I couldn't let this one go. Your statement about Chicago not having grown and losing population over the past 50 years, while true, shows remarkable ignorance to the fact that the Chicagoland area has grown quite heavily over the past 50 years. In 1950, the edge of the Chicago suburbs (on the west side) was probably midway through DuPage County, perhaps a 15-20 mile distance. Nowadays, growth has stretched all the way out into Kane County, past Randall Road, all the way to ILL Route 47. In about 20-30 years, it'll probably stretch all the way to DeKalb, 65-70 miles away from the city center.

Detroit, while sprawling in it's own right, has not grown in this sort of fashion. So, while your statement about Chicago declining in population is technically correct, it's important to take context into account here.

Well for starters, i was talking about the city of Detroit and the city of Chicago. It was in reference to a poster who said Chicago had grown, which in fact it has lost a lot of people. Detroit's metro area has grown substantially as well. A lot of Warren was built in the 60's. The edge of Detroit's suburbs in 1950 was 10 mile. I'm two miles from Detroit and my house was built in the mid 50's. Now the suburbs expand all the way to Auburn Hills and Shelby Township and almost to Ann Arbor now. The metro area is irrelevant to the discussion anyways. the city of Chicago has managed to expand their downtown and contain some of their vacancy while losing significant population.

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