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The Trade Deadline

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I think Ian Stewart has something left in the tank.

And agree with everyone on Gio Gonzalez. Would love to have him, but whenever you deal with Beane it will take some nice pieces.

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Aaron Hill? He has definitely underachieved in TO the last couple of years. Think it may take a bit to get him though.

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Aaron Hill? He has definitely underachieved in TO the last couple of years. Think it may take a bit to get him though.

We already have Ryan raburn. They're essentially the same player right now.

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I'd take Billingsley or Kuroda from the Dodgers. Financially they're ****ed, so maybe they could be had without too much trouble. Though you have to imagine pretty much every contending team would be in on them. They both have chinks in their armors. Kuroda is old and lots of people have (I believe unfounded) doubts about him being able to get outs in the AL. Billingsley is simply way too inefficient, like Scherzer but without the one start out of every three where he looks like a legitimate no doubt horse ace going 7 or 8.

EDIT - Gio walks a lot of guys and you have to be careful trading for All Stars because they get overrated, and also trading with Beane because you'll often get screwed, but he'd be a nice upgrade.

The point is that there are a lot of pitchers in the majors right now who would be an upgrade on at least one spot in the rotation.

This!

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Looking over the American league, Seattle have allowed 293 runs. Detroit has scored 391 runs and and given up 397. If we had been as Stingy as Seattle has been in giving up runs, a few people around here might be positively giddy.What starting pitchers might be available at the deadline, assuming one more quality and seasoned starter would constrict runs allowed from here on out. Obviously, Hiroki Kuroda is in the mix.

Edited by HeyAbbott

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Jeremy Guthrie will likely be available. He's nothing special but a solid 4 or 5 who is likely better than Penny or Coke. He plays in small ballpark and faces New York, Boston, and Tampa all the time.

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I like Gonzalez too. Don't think the A's would trade him though.

I doubt it. They'll have the pitching to seriously contend next year, just need a few bats.

The entire AL West should be pretty good next year.

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Granted, Joyce was two years younger when we traded him than Boesch is now but 24 is not really considered young for a prospect. I think in both cases, you are looking largely at what has the player done for me lately in the major leagues.

I don't think that is how GMs evaluate trades, and in the case of Joyce, he wasn't chopped liver at 24 either.

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The age difference alone is more significant than this factor, IMHO.

Joyce was better then, and he is better now. He has always been the better prospect / player, and I think he returns more in a deal than Boesch.

2011 OPS+

Matt Joyce: 150 and trending downward fast after an absurdly hot start

Brennan Boesch: 143 and trending upward after a May slump

I don't see much difference in how they have performed this year. Both are age 26. It would certainly be nice to have had both of them, but if we hadn't traded Joyce, our pitching staff would be much thinner than it is now.

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Oakland needs offense. Think we could package Boesch + plus some other offensive pieces for Gio Gonzalez?

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Oakland needs offense. Think we could package Boesch + plus some other offensive pieces for Gio Gonzalez?

Why make our offense worse to improve our pitching? That's not going to help us win more games.

If we trade for Gonzalez, we'll have to give up Turner. The only way this trade makes sense is to sacrifice our future to win now.

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Why make our offense worse to improve our pitching? That's not going to help us win more games.

If we trade for Gonzalez, we'll have to give up Turner. The only way this trade makes sense is to sacrifice our future to win now.

And then some. A lot some. Because Gonzalez is a definite now, while Turner is only a future possible.

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Why make our offense worse to improve our pitching? That's not going to help us win more games.

Maybe because our pitching is atrocious? Someone like Casper Wells is plenty capable of performing well if he would get more playing time.

And yes, better pitching will help us win games.

If we trade for Gonzalez, we'll have to give up Turner. The only way this trade makes sense is to sacrifice our future to win now.

Have you seen their offense? They need offense. Package Boesch, Martinez and some other pieces.

And even if it costs Turner, I would be willing to deal him.

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Jeremy Guthrie will likely be available. He's nothing special but a solid 4 or 5 who is likely better than Penny or Coke. He plays in small ballpark and faces New York, Boston, and Tampa all the time.

Guthrie with a better offensive team would be a solid 5. He's been ok for years now, yet the Orioles do nothing to help him. He does seem to fade a little in the second half, though.

Unrelated, a trade with the Orioles has risks. Remember the Huff trade? (I'm being totally outlandish.)

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And then some. A lot some. Because Gonzalez is a definite now, while Turner is only a future possible.

That's true. But one thing to consider with Gio is that you're not getting a sure fire, Dan Haren level ace. He walks more than just about anyone in the game and is helped out by his ballpark a good deal. He's fine, but Turner's ceiling is higher.

Me, I think Guthrie would be a great idea. He'll throw innings and not get blown out very often. That's more than you can say for anyone other than Verlander right now, though Scherzer is at that level too and I don't mean to shortchange him.

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Maybe because our pitching is atrocious? Someone like Casper Wells is plenty capable of performing well if he would get more playing time.

And yes, better pitching will help us win games.

Scoring more runs than you give up helps you win games. So it doesn't help your team if you score less runs in order to give up less. You could have the worst pitching in the world, and still win the World Series if your offense was better than your pitching was bad.

Wells' ceiling is probably a platoon player. He doesn't hit righties very well, and I think his performance would go down if he played every day.

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DD will forever be known as the man who traded Curtis Granderson, I'm afraid. Every homer Grandy hits, another nail in DD's coffin. Two more nails tonight so far.

(I liked the trade at the time.)

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DD will forever be known as the man who traded Curtis Granderson, I'm afraid. Every homer Grandy hits, another nail in DD's coffin. Two more nails tonight so far.

(I liked the trade at the time.)

People will forget about Granderson when Scherzer gets back on track and Jackson reaches his prime.

I think the chances of DD being fired after this season are actually extremely low, even if we don't win the division. He might give up the GM spot to Avila and remain as President, but there's no doubt he's done a very good job here. Few could have done better. I don't think there's a replacement out there that has a chance at making this ballclub better, either.

But whatever. I'm just happy that the Indians are getting spanked. If Granderson can be a part of that, it's all the better.

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DD will forever be known as the man who traded Curtis Granderson, I'm afraid. Every homer Grandy hits, another nail in DD's coffin. Two more nails tonight so far.

(I liked the trade at the time.)

I have to say I disagree.

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That's true. But one thing to consider with Gio is that you're not getting a sure fire, Dan Haren level ace. He walks more than just about anyone in the game and is helped out by his ballpark a good deal. He's fine, but Turner's ceiling is higher.

Me, I think Guthrie would be a great idea. He'll throw innings and not get blown out very often. That's more than you can say for anyone other than Verlander right now, though Scherzer is at that level too and I don't mean to shortchange him.

I would not give up Turner for Gonzalez for the reasons you mentioned. One of these years though, and it could be starting this year, I think there is a good chance things are going to click for Gonzalez and he is going to become a very good #2, borderline #1...like Scherzer was for us the second half last season. He has gotten hot lately, the walks have gone down, and I think the price is going up for him.

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I am just going to throw this out there for the sake of discussion because I think it can be an intriguing debate. Would trading Miguel Cabrera to the Giants or Mariners(teams rich with pitching and desperate for run producers) for Matt Cain or Felix Hernandez be a good move for the Tiger? It seems there are always more impact bats available in free agency than ace pitchers...and when an ace pitcher does become available, it is very hard to sign them.

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I am just going to throw this out there for the sake of discussion because I think it can be an intriguing debate. Would trading Miguel Cabrera to the Giants or Mariners(teams rich with pitching and desperate for run producers) for Matt Cain or Felix Hernandez be a good move for the Tiger? It seems there are always more impact bats available in free agency than ace pitchers...and when an ace pitcher does become available, it is very hard to sign them.

No. Trading possibly one of the greatest hitters in the history of the game for a pitcher who would play once every five days would be an absolutely horrendous trade and the other team would do it in a heartbeat. I wouldn't trade Cabrera straight up for anyone in the league, especially not a pitcher.

(In no way am I shortchanging the importance of pitching, but that trade would just be horrible.)

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Hart, "for the sake of discussion," who we get for Cabrera would have to be another Ace in the mould of Justin Verlander, would have to be around Cabrera's age so that we get mileage from him through a number of seasons, and he also would need to be a proven injury-free starter.

We also would have to know to some certainty that the "slugger" types that we currently have like Boesch and Dirks are the real deal. Don't know how we would know this, but we need to see a big upside in their performance.

And hopefully we could come away from a deal involving Cabrera with a little cash in hand to invest in a proven offensive player in trade or free agency.

This being said, I would expect the Giants or the Mariners, or whoever, to be in the position to make the sacrifice for their needs . . . and not get a bargain superstar for a just quite good starter.

Some will say this is ridiculous. But I remember a year ago when Cabrera was in the bad-books of many on this forum because of his failings off the field and were very anxious that he part ways with the Tigers.

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