Jump to content

mavscougars

Are the Indians for real?

Recommended Posts

Speed is also irrelevant when you are batting (notice I said batting and not hitting) in front of Maggs-Cabrera-Number5. Leyland doesn't steal when those guys are up. Put Jackson at 6-7-8, and he can actually use his speed in front of the singles hitters in the rare instance that he actually gets on base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm talking about players that have kept a starting job the last eight years. There must be the worst one among them, right? And I would guess, admittedly without having done any research, that Inge has been among the very worst ones. Obviously the fact that he has kept his job means that he is not among the worst bench players of the last eight years, but that's my point.

16 WAR over those 8 years. I don't know how it stacks up against the subset of "starters for the last 8 years," but that's pretty close to league average for production across that timeline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps you have a point about batting him lower, but even if, as your signature suggests, Jackson is number nine hitter, is a superb center fielder not good enough to bat ninth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm talking about players that have kept a starting job the last eight years. There must be the worst one among them, right? And I would guess, admittedly without having done any research, that Inge has been among the very worst ones. Obviously the fact that he has kept his job means that he is not among the worst bench players of the last eight years, but that's my point.

Even if he were the worst regular in MLB over the last 8 seasons, it would still make him a reasonably valuable guy because he is filling a position better than the available alternatives could do and allows the team to focus its' efforts and resources to filling other spots. Most draft picks don't come close to having the MLB career Brandon has had.

I don't even like especially Brandon, and won't lose any sleep when he retires / leaves the Tigers, but I have to tip my hat to him fashioning a 10-year MLB career, especially given how poorly he started out.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps you have a point about batting him lower, but even if, as your signature suggests, Jackson is number nine hitter, is a superb center fielder not good enough to bat ninth?

Sure, assuming he is superb defensively, that might be enough to deserve an everyday spot.

I'd rather have a guy who can hit that plays slightly worse defense, though.

Regardless, Jackson is not a good hitter and has no business batting in the top 5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is Jackson the new Inge?

Nah, the whole white boy gritty stereotype fit Brandon perfectly. He was always the underdog, who somehow found a way to muscle a homer over the fence despite his small stature, which allowed people to identify with him more than a 6' 4" Latin American guy at first, or a highly touted former Yankee prospect. I doubt any player as mediocre as Inge will ever be so widely adored, he just had all the pieces fit perfectly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Right now Inge is worse than Kelly. He has no speed, he has yet to walk, has made I think 3 errors and had not hit a homerun. I'm just saying we shouldn't be making fun of other teams third baseman. It's not like the tigers have A Rod there. They have Brandon Freaking Inge.

You simply have no clue what you're talking about. Inge is overall still an average third baseman. Don Kelly is not even a good utility man, and is only on a major league roster because Jim Leyland is an idiot.

In 2010, Inge was the 11th best fielder in the majors at 3rd. Not as good as he used to be, but still solidly above average. He was the 16th best hitting regular (>400 AB) third sacker in the majors. So that's roughly 13th-14th best overall, depending on the measure.

Inge is far from a great player. He isn't even good now. But he's average. And that's a long way from "Worse than Don Kelly".

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Speed on the bases means nothing with less than league average OBP. He's got to improve a lot right now to get to league average.

Agreed, look where it got Flint Central's and MSU's own, Herb Washington. It's good he got involved in the Mickey D's franchise thing when he did though.

Herb Washington Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com :laugh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nah, the whole white boy gritty stereotype fit Brandon perfectly. He was always the underdog, who somehow found a way to muscle a homer over the fence despite his small stature, which allowed people to identify with him more than a 6' 4" Latin American guy at first, or a highly touted former Yankee prospect. I doubt any player as mediocre as Inge will ever be so widely adored, he just had all the pieces fit perfectly.

Widely adored in Michigan maybe. On the internet, he is the most most hated Tiger ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's funny that you post this after Inges walkoff. I was exaggerating a bit, but he is among the worst overall regular players on baseball. And aside from his torrid start when he made the all-star team, he probably is among the five worst everyday players of the last 8 or so years.

this is absolutely ridiculous. I mean, just look at our rivals in the Central. You could argue nobody in the Central has a significantly better 3B than Inge. Most years I'd guess he's one of the best 15-20 3Bs in the league. He hits for some power and plays sick D, takes a lot of pitches and runs the bases well too. He's far from a star, I mean far, but he's not among the worst regulars/starters in baseball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You simply have no clue what you're talking about. Inge is overall still an average third baseman. Don Kelly is not even a good utility man, and is only on a major league roster because Jim Leyland is an idiot.

In 2010, Inge was the 11th best fielder in the majors at 3rd. Not as good as he used to be, but still solidly above average. He was the 16th best hitting regular (>400 AB) third sacker in the majors. So that's roughly 13th-14th best overall, depending on the measure.

Inge is far from a great player. He isn't even good now. But he's average. And that's a long way from "Worse than Don Kelly".

Rob

Kelly is a great utility player, that's just silly. With the way our roster is structrued, he is the perfect last guy on the bench, perfect. He's lefty, can pinch run and most importantly plays strong defense at 2B,3B,LF,RF and solid D at SS and CF in a pinch. Not to mention being the emergency catcher. We know he's going to be overmatched at the plate, as is isn't his role to be Babe Ruth and no other teams have someone hitting any better in their last guy on the bench role. Come on now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...You could argue nobody in the Central has a significantly better 3B than Inge. ...

I think most folks would have thought Danny Valencia was a slam dunk to outhit Inge, but starting out even slower than Brandon this yr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sure, assuming he is superb defensively, that might be enough to deserve an everyday spot.

I'd rather have a guy who can hit that plays slightly worse defense, though.

Regardless, Jackson is not a good hitter and has no business batting in the top 5.

Yeah, Austin Jackson is a guy who has people convinced he's a lot better than he is. He's the 10th best defensive CF in the majors last year, and the 18th best offensive CF in the majors. So really, similar to Inge. An average CF.

Obviously part of the difference is that he's 24 (?) and Inge is 34. But at this point, my guess is that Jackson pretty much is what he is. A good defender, and a somewhat below average offensive player. Note though- I'm not saying any of this because he's hit poorly in the first 10 games. I'm talking about full season numbers and what he did in the minors. I do think his overall numbers this year will be a bit worse (maybe a .710-.720 OPS instead of .745) based on him not having the best BABIP in the majors (merely really good).

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
this is absolutely ridiculous. I mean, just look at our rivals in the Central. You could argue nobody in the Central has a significantly better 3B than Inge. Most years I'd guess he's one of the best 15-20 3Bs in the league. He hits for some power and plays sick D, takes a lot of pitches and runs the bases well too. He's far from a star, I mean far, but he's not among the worst regulars/starters in baseball.[/QUOTE]

+1 The thing that appears to be prevalent on most messages boards and seems to be almost universal, is that the negative to positive ratio, as far as comments are concerned, is slanted more often to the negative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kelly is a great utility player, that's just silly. With the way our roster is structrued, he is the perfect last guy on the bench, perfect. He's lefty, can pinch run and most importantly plays strong defense at 2B,3B,LF,RF and solid D at SS and CF in a pinch. Not to mention being the emergency catcher. We know he's going to be overmatched at the plate, as is isn't his role to be Babe Ruth and no other teams have someone hitting any better in their last guy on the bench role. Come on now.

Sorry, I just don't see the support for the assertion that Don Kelly plays "strong defense" anywhere. My recollection is that the smart scouting people around here said he was below average at SS and CF, and average to a bit above at 2b and 3b. The fact that he's lefthanded doesn't help because he can't hit anyone anytime anywhere. So platoon matchups are of less value, since the point of a platoon matchup is to make it more possible for the guy to hit well.

The worst part about Kelly (though it's not his fault) is that he plays for Jim Leyland, who thinks that crappy utility guys should get 250 AB a year. Blech.

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry, I just don't see the support for the assertion that Don Kelly plays "strong defense" anywhere. My recollection is that the smart scouting people around here said he was below average at SS and CF, and average to a bit above at 2b and 3b. The fact that he's lefthanded doesn't help because he can't hit anyone anytime anywhere. So platoon matchups are of less value, since the point of a platoon matchup is to make it more possible for the guy to hit well.

The worst part about Kelly (though it's not his fault) is that he plays for Jim Leyland, who thinks that crappy utility guys should get 250 AB a year. Blech.

Rob

Kelly got that many at-bats because everyone else last year was injured or even less effective than Kelly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
His minor league walk, strikeout, and power numbers aren't anything to write home about either.

For what it's worth, he was about a year younger than the league average for each of his minor league seasons. I think the book on Jackson is pretty clear -- he needs to improve his K rate. He's young enough for me to think that's possible, but the early returns here aren't great.

-Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For what it's worth, he was about a year younger than the league average for each of his minor league seasons. I think the book on Jackson is pretty clear -- he needs to improve his K rate. He's young enough for me to think that's possible, but the early returns here aren't great.

-Tony

Yeah, I realize that. He can certainly improve as he gets older. Or it could just be who he is. Regardless, as far as age goes, he's still young for his level today, and my concern is with what we can expect this year. My contention is that we can't expect much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kelly got that many at-bats because everyone else last year was injured or even less effective than Kelly.

Obviously I disagree, and honestly, I just don't see much support for the Kelly love. There were always better outfielders and firstbasemen available. If Inge is hurt, I'd still probably rather have Rhymes/Sizemore/Guillen at third, but that's at least an argument. He was never one of the top 3 OF or 1b last year, and he got 190 ab playing those positions.

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the Jackson thing, I told a friend of mine that I think he will be in the minors by June.

Book it. Done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Motown Sports Blog



×
×
  • Create New...