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Temporary Shakeup Time Yet?

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Who else is there to blame? I think Dombrowski has done a great job upgrading this team.

I think Dombrowski is good at acquiring talent. I don't think he has been that good at putting together a deep balanced roster. I'm not a big Leyland fan. I'm just not going to say they'd be a winning team every year with a different manager.

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Really? They had talent last year? Who? A starting pitcher and one good hitter? 2008 no one was healthy. Verlander had an awful year, Guillen, Rogers and Sheffield were injured, Renteria was a waste, Pudge walked only 9 times, and Granderson hit the skids the last half of the season.

But wasn't 2008 the year we were supposed to score 1000 runs and have a good pitching staff?

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I think both Leyland and Sparky have been quoted as saying the most important part of being a good manager is having good players.

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Yea a team that lost 119 games only 3 years earlier and had never finished 500 since 1993, all of the sudden got lucky bounces, and bounced their way into a World Series and had nothing to do with the manager. Yet we blame the manager for not making the playoffs when the only time we did was because of luck and not talent or managing.

I just don't see results, sorry. Who else is to blame for this start?

Dombrowski went out and added talent. Leyland is the one making the in-game decisions.

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I agree as long as you include not getting to balls a mistake. I think Raburn has been bad this year. However, I do think fans are harsher towards a player who makes errors than they are towards a player with poor range not getting to balls.

I agree with you 100%!

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I think Dombrowski is good at acquiring talent. I don't think he has been that good at putting together a deep balanced roster. I'm not a big Leyland fan. I'm just not going to say they'd be a winning team every year with a different manager.

I think DD is good at making trades(minus that one:) .. the thing is, he doesn't always have a ton to work with.

That's also his fault.

I think he's good at acquiring talent, though poorly at re-signing his own players.

I like Dombrowski, and I think he's a good GM.

Thing is, he keeps giving these upgrades to Leyland who can't push 'em into the playoffs, or start the season well.

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I just don't see results, sorry. Who else is to blame for this start?

Dombrowski went out and added talent. Leyland is the one making the in-game decisions.

Why does someone need to be blamed? Teams will go through 9 game stretches where they only win 3 games.

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I think DD is good at making trades(minus that one:) .. the thing is, he doesn't always have a ton to work with.

That's also his fault.

I think he's good at acquiring talent, though poorly at re-signing his own players.

I like Dombrowski, and I think he's a good GM.

Thing is, he keeps giving these upgrades to Leyland who can't push 'em into the playoffs, or start the season well.

What upgrades did he have last year? :confused:

Since 2006 they have downgraded at SS, 2B, C, LF, CF and upgraded at 1B and DH. They also have worse starting pitching than they did in 2006.

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2006 was just a magical season where everything fell perfectly and every ball bounced our way.

We had two top flight, top performing rookies that helped us win big games, and a few vets have career years.

Our success had more to do with that, not so much with Leyland.

Well if the players get the credit then they get the blame now.

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What upgrades did he have last year? :confused:

Austin Jackson was an upgrade to Curtis Granderson, especially with the season he had.

I think Max, especially after coming back from AAA .. was a huge upgrade.

Jose Valverde, especially the first half, was the biggest upgrade.

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Well if the players get the credit then they get the blame now.

True. Look, I am just doing some serious venting here, but ... man, I think we should be winning more.

I just think Leyland is a bad ingame manager, manages his bench poorly, as well as the bullpen.

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Austin Jackson was an upgrade to Curtis Granderson, especially with the season he had.

I think Max, especially after coming back from AAA .. was a huge upgrade.

Jose Valverde, especially the first half, was the biggest upgrade.

In 2010 Scherzer was the same as Edwin Jackson in 2009. Sizemore/Rhymes was a downgrade from Polanco. Now add Ordonez missed the second half of 2010, Porcello struggled, Boesch tanked the second half, and Laird, Everett and Inge were useless. When Ordonez was healthy and Boesch was hitting, the Tigers were in first place.

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The Twins lost their best hitter and closer last year, Span had a terrible year etc.. etc.. Everyone has an excuse.

You can't keep making excuses year in year out.

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What upgrades did he have last year? :confused:

Since 2006 they have downgraded at SS, 2B, C, LF, CF and upgraded at 1B and DH. They also have worse starting pitching than they did in 2006.

From 06? Raburn is a better player than Craig Monroe, c'mon now.

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The Twins lost their best hitter and closer last year, Span had a terrible year etc.. etc.. Everyone has an excuse.

You can't keep making excuses year in year out.

You know, to bring up the Twins, keep in mind that just about every year, the Twins tank it all 1st half and then light it up. Maybe it's good that we're struggling so much now. Some of those years, the 1st half Twins look like a AA team. Does anyone remember how pathetic they were 1st half of 06?

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The Twins lost their best hitter and closer last year, Span had a terrible year etc.. etc.. Everyone has an excuse.

You can't keep making excuses year in year out.

The Twins still had better players. The Twins infield last year was better than the Tigers infield except for 1B, They were better in LF, and DH, and had better pitching.

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From 06? Raburn is a better player than Craig Monroe, c'mon now.

Really? At this point I'd settle for 28 HR and a 783 OPS from Raburn.

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The Twins still had better players. The Twins infield last year was better than the Tigers infield except for 1B, They were better in LF, and DH, and had better pitching.

So someone needs to be blamed. You can't keep pulling the "Verlander struggled in 08" card, or the "We were good when Boesch and Maggs were mashing last year" card, and assign some blame, somewhere. If you don't you become Donald Sterling sans the racism. Unless you are racist, of course, then you just become Donald Sterling.

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The Twins still had better players. The Twins infield last year was better than the Tigers infield except for 1B, They were better in LF, and DH, and had better pitching.

The Twins do not have great talent in thier rotation. They have a good manager that knows what he wants and communicates it. And their infield in 09 was laughably untalented at times. Their leadership works around issues, Leyland has not gotten around his consistently.

I made the same Pro-Leyland arguments you did in 09, it's time to move on from those, and stop making excuses.

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Raburn's career OPS is better than that.

Raburn has yet to prove over an entire season he can OPS above 800. Monroe was plenty capable of putting together stretches of 800+ OPS. The second half of 2006 he had an 832 OPS. Both are streaky inconsistent hitters. I'm willing to bet at the end of the season if Raburn plays the whole year, his numbers will be similar to Monroe's with a little bit better on base ability. At best I think it's a draw between Monroe and Raburn.

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You know, to bring up the Twins, keep in mind that just about every year, the Twins tank it all 1st half and then light it up. Maybe it's good that we're struggling so much now. Some of those years, the 1st half Twins look like a AA team. Does anyone remember how pathetic they were 1st half of 06?

We can totally do that this year, we have the means to do it.

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The Twins do not have great talent in thier rotation. They have a good manager that knows what he wants. And their infield in 09 was laughably untalented at times. Their leadership works around issues, Leyland has not gotten around his consistently.

I made the same Pro-Leyland arguments you did in 09, it's time to move on from those, and stop making excuses.

It's time to realize the Tigers don't have that much talent. Who in the infield was good last year? I can think only thing of one player. Then you have a 37 year old Johnny Damon at DH and two good starters. Porcello and Galarraga were shaky, and the bullpen was iffy, especially when Valverde became ineffective.

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It's time to realize the Tigers don't have that much talent. Who in the infield was good last year? I can think only thing of one player. Then you have a 37 year old Johnny Damon at DH and two good starters. Porcello and Galarraga were shaky, and the bullpen was iffy, especially when Valverde became ineffective.

Then he has to overachieve at some point if that is truly the case. You can't have 5 straight years of failure, in a bad division, with the highest payroll, when you have arguably the best hitter and pitcher in the divsion. Leyland needs to make it happen, now. If not, then someone else gets to try and "overachieve".

If this year brings more failure, and Leyland gets to stay, then we have poor leadership, failure is an option. And I really think if Leyland handled his talent better (Raburn and Sizemore) maybe talent would not be lacking as much. Both guys have the talent to rake. They need the oppurtunity. There is no real good excuse for not starting Sizemore all of August and September last year when it was clear we were pretending.

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The Twins lost their best hitter and closer last year, Span had a terrible year etc.. etc.. Everyone has an excuse.

The Twins had the depth in the system to trade for Capps, and the drop off from Morneau to Kubel (who replaced him via Cuddyer going to 1st) is nowhere near the drop we would have suffered trying to replace Cabby last yr. This yr with Martinez that part would be a different equation.

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