Jump to content

DaYooperASBDT

Temporary Shakeup Time Yet?

Recommended Posts

Ordonez is not a bad defender. People confuse foot speed with good defense. Ordonez positions himself well, gets good reads, takes good routes to the ball, knows how to play the ball off the wall, and has an OK arm. I have no problem with Ordonez in RF.

The contract was one year and 10 million. There wasn't any better options out there for the price. Ordonez and his contract are not holding the team back.

I agree with your description of Maggs as a defender 100% but there is still no substitute for the ability to actually get to more balls for outs. So while I don't view him as 'problem' either, I think over a season, Boesch and his speed (just as an example), even with his limitations, would make a lot more put-outs out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raburn is a good athlete who makes dumb mistakes. He has to hit to justify his position. He's probably the opposite of Maggs. Raburn has good range and makes awful throws but has the potential to throw guys out all over the field.

Maggs has no range but is probably craftier at positioning and will catch anything hit at him. But he has no arm and athleticism. I'm more forgiving of outfield defensive mistakes and if the team was hitting they'd have won yesterday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm more concerned about the Tigers pitching and defense than their hitting. There are as many positive things happening with the hitting as negative. Penny, Porcello and the middle relief are big concerns. The defense is a problem, but I expected that.

exactly - as noted upthread, if they had defended and the BP held, they were tied at worst. That's a huge difference to being down 9-4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mistakes don't necessarily define how good/bad a defender is. Raburn looks horrible sometimes but overall, obviously the people that volunteer themselves to observe and document his performance play-by-play have concluded that he's about average overall (I don't recall hearing anybody say that he was "good").

Also the consensus seems to be that Maggs is below average defensively, so if Raburn is about average defensively he'd be at least somewhat better than Maggs.

I'd DIS-agree with that at this point. Raburns' mistake rate has been phenomenally high ever since the beginning of ST this year - almost one per game. He's got to start doing better even to get into Maggs league at this point.

Edited by Gehringer_2
missed the negative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raburn is his own worst enemy. He's good at reaction type plays - today he made a nice running catch toward the stands - but on more routine chances (with runners on base) he gets some kind of mental block, he's crapped himself on making throws two days in a row now. I think he has anxiety issues and needs to visit a sports shrink - that worked wonders for John Smoltz (he's just the first guy I could think of).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raburn is his own worst enemy. He's good at reaction type plays - today he made a nice running catch toward the stands - but on more routine chances (with runners on base) he gets some kind of mental block, he's crapped himself on making throws two days in a row now. I think he has anxiety issues and needs to visit a sports shrink - that worked wonders for John Smoltz (he's just the first guy I could think of).

Speaking of that, have you read IdahoBert's blog

Dazzling Gradually

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm giving it about another week, and then some of these switches HAVE to be made

Get 'em gone: Brad Thomas, Robbie Weinhardt (back to AAA for DL activation), Enrique Gonzalez (option?), Carlos Guillen, Ryan Raburn, Brennan Boesch (option), Will Rhymes (option)

Get em' up here: Fu-Te Ni, Perry/Zumaya comebacks, Scott Sizemore, Danny Worth, Clete Thomas

I agree with you about the relief pitchers but Raburn and Boesch can't go anywhere. Boesch needs to be starting in left field until Raburn finds his glove and bat. Boesch is seeing and hitting the ball very well right now. He's been robbed on a few hard hit balls in the past few games and doesn't have the same problems we saw in the second half of last season. He's also taking a few walks in high pressure situations where he'd be swinging at the first three pitches he saw last year.

You'd be quick to send Boesch down batting over 300 but don't mention a thing about Jackson? I don't think Jackson needs anything but a few extra batting practices and maybe a game or two off but if you're going to jump to conclusions so quick Jackson should be the one you're contemplating sending down for some tweaking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Get a real hitting coach, and move Lloyd to bench coach, everybody's happy.

Fire Jim Leyland.

Seriously, since 2006 ... what has he done?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fire Jim Leyland.

Seriously, since 2006 ... what has he done?

apparently a lot -- He hired a pitching coach (two actually) and a batting coach that we can blame everything on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fire Jim Leyland.

Seriously, since 2006 ... what has he done?

Post a better winning percentage than Sparky Anderson.

Seriously before 2006 what did any manager do the previous 10 years?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Post a better winning percentage than Sparky Anderson.

Seriously before 2006 what did any manager do the previous 10 years?

Two 2nd place finishes, a last place finish, a .500 team ... and no playoffs. I want more, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Two 2nd place finishes, a last place finish, a .500 team ... and no playoffs. I want more, sorry.

If the Tigers went 74-88, 81-81, 86-76, 88-74, and 95-67 in that order, everyone would be in love with Leyland. The team has simply not had the talent to do better than what they have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mistakes don't necessarily define how good/bad a defender is. Raburn looks horrible sometimes but overall, obviously the people that volunteer themselves to observe and document his performance play-by-play have concluded that he's about average overall (I don't recall hearing anybody say that he was "good").

Also the consensus seems to be that Maggs is below average defensively, so if Raburn is about average defensively he'd be at least somewhat better than Maggs.

This made me chuckle! Mistakes DO define how good or bad you are!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If the Tigers went 74-88, 81-81, 86-76, 88-74, and 95-67 in that order, everyone would be in love with Leyland. .

but they didn't. I'm not blaming Leyland but they've been a .500 team since August, 2006. So, there is plenty of room for criticism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If the Tigers went 74-88, 81-81, 86-76, 88-74, and 95-67 in that order, everyone would be in love with Leyland. The team has simply not had the talent to do better than what they have.

But he didn't, and they had the talent, especially the year they completely tanked!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This made me chuckle! Mistakes DO define how good or bad you are!

I agree as long as you include not getting to balls a mistake. I think Raburn has been bad this year. However, I do think fans are harsher towards a player who makes errors than they are towards a player with poor range not getting to balls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
but they didn't. I'm not blaming Leyland but they've been a .500 team since August, 2006. So, there is plenty of room for criticism.

The Tigers were an awful team pre-Leyland and we could only hope for 500. Going to the World Series in his first year doesn't help his cause. It seems to have made Illitch and Dombrowski put more emphasis on winning now instead of continuing to build the way they were pre-2006.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not blaming Leyland.

Who else is there to blame? I think Dombrowski has done a great job upgrading this team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Tigers were an awful team pre-Leyland and we could only hope for 500. Going to the World Series in his first year doesn't help his cause. It seems to have made Illitch and Dombrowski put more emphasis on winning now instead of continuing to build the way they were pre-2006.

2006 was just a magical season where everything fell perfectly and every ball bounced our way.

We had two top flight, top performing rookies that helped us win big games, and a few vets have career years.

Our success had more to do with that, not so much with Leyland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But he didn't, and they had the talent, especially the year they completely tanked!

Really? They had talent last year? Who? A starting pitcher and one good hitter? 2008 no one was healthy. Verlander had an awful year, Guillen, Rogers and Sheffield were injured, Renteria was a waste, Pudge walked only 9 times, and Granderson hit the skids the last half of the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who else is there to blame? I think Dombrowski has done a great job upgrading this team.

Now I think you are being sarcastic. Why does someone need to be blamed? The team hasn't been better than a mid 80 win team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2006 was just a magical season where everything fell perfectly and every ball bounced our way.

We had two top flight, top performing rookies that helped us win big games, and a few vets have career years.

Our success had more to do with that, not so much with Leyland.

Yea a team that lost 119 games only 3 years earlier and had never finished 500 since 1993, all of the sudden got lucky bounces, and bounced their way into a World Series and had nothing to do with the manager. Yet we blame the manager for not making the playoffs when the only time we did was because of luck and not talent or managing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...