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Zumaya and Guillen Injury Update

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The Tigers Facebook page comments are good for killing one's brain cells. Lot's of brilliant calls to "get rid of the bum" and to "trade him."

I don't even read those anymore. They make me wish I could blow up the Internet with my brain.

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That's a shame. He sure was fun to watch when he pitched.

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He doesn't count against the 40 man because he is on the 60 day DL. He is also a free agent after this season. The tigers will have to decide whether to re-sign him this offseason. I could see them offering a minor league deal.

That may be his best bet. S-I's Jon Heyman is suggesting that he was not long for Detroit after this season anyway. That was before today's news.

There is still no timetable on Joel Zumaya (shoulder), who really isn't even on the Tigers' radar at the moment. Whether or not he makes it back to the mound, the Tigers have decided this will be his last year in Detroit.

• Tigers backup catcher Alex Avila (five home runs) has been a pleasant early surprise for Detroit, whose disappointing beginning -- it had lost seven straight before beating the Yankees 4-2 Tuesday night -- hasn't included that many nice surprises. No. 3 hitter Magglio Ordonez, a consistent run producer throughout his career, has two RBIs.

Read more: Signs*suggest Albert Pujols will stay with St. Louis Cardinals - Jon Heyman - SI.com

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Some fans around here just don't deal well with uncertainty.

Why pronounce either of them as "finished"? Especially when it's clear you haven't a clue what you're talking about?

When it comes to something like injuries, I'm perfectly content saying "I have no idea. Let's wait and see."

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I don't even read those anymore. They make me wish I could blow up the Internet with my brain.

Here's a great nugget I just read:

He's jacked his arm up becuz he tries way to hard to always get over a 100 mile an hour pitch... He needs to just concentrate on throwing pitches/ strikes @ 80 mph.. Many great pitchers do it!

I for one welcome the 80-mph-strike-throwing Zumaya overloard.

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He was a starter in the minors. I wonder if he would have run into all these problems had he remained a starter which might have discouraged him from competing against the radar gun with every four seamer.

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From what I have seen of Zumaya, whatever he does he is competitive and at 100%. This prognosis is not good and I feel bad for him. He approached his dream and it seems to be slipping away.

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When a guy can actually break his elbow throwing the ball, and keeps re-injuring himself every time he tries to come back I think it's safe to say he's done. I hope I'm wrong and I'm surely no doctor but I can't see it happening. There must be something fundamentally unsound about his arm.

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Well the finger injury and the A/C joint from an accident, that could have happened to anybody. I could see the broken elbow healing eventually, so a comeback in 2012 does not seem far-fetched to me. Troy Percival thought he was done, but eventually had a nice return with Tampa.

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Well the finger injury and the A/C joint from an accident, that could have happened to anybody. I could see the broken elbow healing eventually, so a comeback in 2012 does not seem far-fetched to me. Troy Percival thought he was done, but eventually had a nice return with Tampa.

But they didn't happen to just anyone, they happened to him. So did all the other injuries.

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DETROIT -- Tigers infielder Carlos Guillen is hitting soft-toss pitches, running straight ahead and throwing as he awaits clearance to take part in more baseball activities while working his way back from microfracture surgery on his left knee.

The article goes on to say he's waiting on approval to take ground balls.

I guess it's nice the Tigers ate giving updates. I wonder what the next level after taking ground balls is?

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I don't even read those anymore. They make me wish I could blow up the Internet with my brain.
This is the only sports forum I read at all. Mason, my 2 year old Brittany, has better sense than the overwhelming number of posters I see in other places.

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That may be his best bet. S-I's Jon Heyman is suggesting that he was not long for Detroit after this season anyway. That was before today's news.

Hard to give him much credence when he doesn't know a "shoulder" from an elbow.

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He was a starter in the minors. I wonder if he would have run into all these problems had he remained a starter which might have discouraged him from competing against the radar gun with every four seamer.

this isn't a very common view, but given that as a starter, 100 would be effective for him if he hit it 2 or 3 times every 5 days instead of 10-15 every 2 days, I don't think you can dismiss it. The physics question is whether he was more prone to repetitive stress injury or ultimate stress injury, the first favors relieving but the second could favor starting. We're unlikely to ever find out though.

I've been struck the nature of the medical decisions made with him. I know he's seeing the supposed best, but I wonder about some of the decisions they've made. After the shoulder surgery, they left the damaged acromium and even said it might have to be removed later. Well guess what, he's a pitcher, if something can come loose, it will. So he lost another 2/3 season to have it removed in a second surgery. This time around they brought him back before waiting to remove the hardware from the elbow, one of the possible sources of his current problem, but they can't know unless its out. Why not "do it right the first time" in both cases?

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Zumaya undergoes arthroscopic surgery

By Jason Beck / MLB.com | 05/11/11 2:50 PM ET

MINNEAPOLIS -- Neither the Tigers nor noted orthopedic surgeon Dr. James Andrews have a definitive reason as to why Joel Zumaya's elbow keeps bothering him, but they're hoping that arthroscopic surgery on Tuesday might finally have taken care of the problem.

Dr. Andrews performed the surgery at his clinic in Pensacola, Fla., cleaning up the elbow joint and replacing the screw that had originally been inserted last summer. The previous surgery repaired a fracture at the tip of his elbow, with the screw stabilizing the joint. The new screw is slightly different, in case that was the root of the problem.

Zumaya will rest and rehab for another six weeks, after which Dr. Andrews will re-evaluate him, Tigers head athletic trainer Kevin Rand said. That timetable will put him into late June before he can be cleared to resume throwing.

When surgery was originally scheduled two weeks ago, Rand said that Zumaya was unlikely to get back to throwing in time to pitch this season. Now that the surgery is complete, Rand was cautious on the timetable.

"At this point, it's too early to tell," Rand said when asked about Zumaya's chances of pitching this year.

Medical staff taking caution with Guillen

MINNEAPOLIS -- Carlos Guillen is taking ground balls again for now, but Tigers medical personnel are proceeding cautiously with his rehab process to see how his surgically repaired left knee reacts.

Head athletic trainer Kevin Rand said Guillen was being re-evaluated on Wednesday by the team medical staff and physical therapist Jeremy Maddox.

"He's doing some moderate baseball activities today," Rand said. "We'll see how he tolerates that so we can kind of get a little better timeline on getting him back to full baseball activity."

In other words, the Tigers are testing out the knee, not necessarily clearing him for more activity. The Tigers still don't have a firm timetable on when he'll return to action. He has been on a touch-and-go progression since mid-March, when soreness in his knee sidelined him from what seemed like a path back to action by the end of Spring Training.

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Would be interested in the rationale for inserting a new screw. If the healing is proper, it should have been OK to just remove it and let the bone regrow???

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Sounds like they don't know what's causing the pain and whether replacing the screw solves anything.

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I wonder if they all snicker and giggle when talking/writing about Guillen.

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I wonder if they all snicker and giggle when talking/writing about Guillen.

Hey now! He'll play 15 games in August before getting hurt again! Have faith!!!

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Would be interested in the rationale for inserting a new screw. If the healing is proper, it should have been OK to just remove it and let the bone regrow???

Maybe they just plan to leave the screw in to provide better strength?

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Maybe they just plan to leave the screw in to provide better strength?

Well, sometimes one just can't stop being an engineer. Bone and metal have vastly different mechanical properties. Under high load, both bone and metal flex/displace, but they flex/displace differently. That opens the possibility of differential movement between the materials when under high loads, which could/would be quite painful. Given the kind of stress Z puts on the elbow when throwing, I would have thought the best solution long term would be remove the metal, let the bone grow back completely. I'm more than willing to admit I may have this all wrong, but I would at least like to understand what anatomical/physiological factors argue for leaving the metal in in this case that overcome the force of the materials science argument.

I have some experience with metal skeletal repair, and what I was told was that the normal course of action is to leave metal in because most people tolerate it under the circumstance of *normal* use, and the removal requires another healing/rehab cycle that you'd just as soon avoid if there is no motivation to go there.. But if the joint experiences discomfort, a first option is to remove and let the bone reheal.

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At this point is Guillen in the Tigers future plans at all? I would hate to see them sacrifice playing time for Sizemore for a player who in all likelihood won't be resigned after this year and whose reliability is, well, unreliable, though not through any fault of his own.

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At this point is Guillen in the Tigers future plans at all? I would hate to see them sacrifice playing time for Sizemore for a player who in all likelihood won't be resigned after this year and whose reliability is, well, unreliable, though not through any fault of his own.

I agree. Keep Guillen on the DL all season so we can collect the insurance from his contract and let him walk (pun) at the end of the season. At this point, he would hurt the team. Counting on a player and not having him hurts more than knowing you won't have him at all.

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I agree. Keep Guillen on the DL all season so we can collect the insurance from his contract and let him walk (pun) at the end of the season. At this point, he would hurt the team. Counting on a player and not having him hurts more than knowing you won't have him at all.

We don't know if Guillen's salary is insured or not. The policies come in all different flavors and cone sizes. They are also more expensive the further out they go. Or perhaps they only insured against specific injuries.

There's room on this roster for Guillen as a part-time player, if he's healthy. I'm not worried about that. The question is if he will be healthy enough to play this season.

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We don't know if Guillen's salary is insured or not. The policies come in all different flavors and cone sizes. They are also more expensive the further out they go. Or perhaps they only insured against specific injuries.

There's room on this roster for Guillen as a part-time player, if he's healthy. I'm not worried about that. The question is if he will be healthy enough to play this season.

Well, if it's not insured, get him healthy enough to pinch hit. But don't take playing time away from Sizemore. If Scott needs a rest, use Santiago. Sizemore may be our 2nd baseman of the future and the time to find out if he can handle it is now. We don't want to go into the off-season with that question mark. And Carlos is gone after this season, no matter what he does IF he comes back at all this season. At least, IMO.

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