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Zumaya and Guillen Injury Update

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And every time he came back and was pitching balls, it got blamed on a stress disorder and they stck him onto the DL!

Oh, please. Are you one of the conspiracy theorists?

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When you say 'it got blamed' I assume you believe he didn't have the anxiety disorder ... what do you think about Zack Greinke, once on medication (which Willis refused to believe in) he became a Cy Young pitcher
Oh, please. Are you one of the conspiracy theorists?

I really don't... Call it a conspiracy, call it a belief, I think thathis walks just caught up with him like it did with many NL to AL transitions (*cough* Brad Penny)....

He averaged 3 walks per 9 innings in Florida and it elevated to 7 or 8 per 9 innings in Detroit. That isn't stress, it's just playing bad.

Plus, what would make him all of a sudden have more stress when he comes to Detroit? Remember that Florida was good while he was there and actually attracted fans.

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I really don't... Call it a conspiracy, call it a belief, I think thathis walks just caught up with him like it did with many NL to AL transitions (*cough* Brad Penny)....

He averaged 3 walks per 9 innings in Florida and it elevated to 7 or 8 per 9 innings in Detroit. That isn't stress, it's just playing bad.

Plus, what would make him all of a sudden have more stress when he comes to Detroit? Remember that Florida was good while he was there and actually attracted fans.

So, according to you there's no way the rise in walks per 9 innings could be related to coming to a new team and possibly putting pressure on himself? And there's no way he could have more stress with Detroit because Florida was actually good and attracted fans?

You don't need "reasons" to have anxiety disorder. Sometimes you just have it.

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Plus, what would make him all of a sudden have more stress when he comes to Detroit?

That's how out works. Everything is going great, then bam. Anxiety. It's not that uncommon.

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That's too bad about Zoom. If he is in fact shut down temporarily, then they could probably just put him on the 60 day DL, backdated to March or whenever he originally was put on the DL. At earliest, he wouldn't be back until late May or June (if he was shut down), so it wuold make sense.

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Yes, I'm continuing an argument with Yooper (really the entire board is ripping my idea apart right now)... Yes, I know it is impossible to win

:happy:

Right now you have Scott Sizemore and Will Rhymes just waiting for Guillen to be "healthy" again...

There is no indication whatsoever that this time around wil be any different than any other Carlos Guillen injury...

It is a constant cycle...

15 day DL

Recovery

"Healthy"

Small injury

Lingering Injury

15 day DL

Recovery (longer this time)

"Healthy"

Small injury

Lingering injury

and so on....

He has played only 52% of the time in the last 3 years + 2011. Take out 2008 and he has only played in 45%.

as comparison...

Peralta: 93%

Inge: 86%

Cabrera: 97%

Come on!

Whoever is our 2nd baseman of the future (Sizemore or Rhymes, they need to decide) - needs to have security in their play and know that they are not just a person that stands between 1st and 2nd base while another person who is considered better gets healthy.

Well we're all reading tea leaves I suppose, certainly the Tigers have eaten large contracts before. But like it or not PR and political factors do have to be considered. Cutting Guillen now would almost be akin to cutting Inge - but I do think you have a point about "blocking" guys like Sizemore. Perhaps it also ties with the "win now" mentality that an 80-something owner might have.

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I really don't... Call it a conspiracy, call it a belief, I think thathis walks just caught up with him like it did with many NL to AL transitions (*cough* Brad Penny)....

He averaged 3 walks per 9 innings in Florida and it elevated to 7 or 8 per 9 innings in Detroit. That isn't stress, it's just playing bad.

Plus, what would make him all of a sudden have more stress when he comes to Detroit? Remember that Florida was good while he was there and actually attracted fans.

Okay --- so you don't believe in mental illness. Can argue with a person that is like that.

I do, just like I believe in a broken leg. If Dontrelle had a broken leg and came back to pitch -- whent he doctor said he should be in a cast -- I would not say the walks caught up with him. I would say, 'doode you have a broke leg'

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Speaking of Dontrelle, he shut down the Mudhens the other night...6ip, 3h, no runs, 1 walk and 5 k's.

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Okay --- so you don't believe in mental illness. Can argue with a person that is like that.

I do, just like I believe in a broken leg. If Dontrelle had a broken leg and came back to pitch -- whent he doctor said he should be in a cast -- I would not say the walks caught up with him. I would say, 'doode you have a broke leg'

I believe in mental illness, I just don't believe that the D-Train has one... Why would they keep changing his delivery if it was all in his head? Wouldn't they try to relax him and get him professional help for it? Not change how he pitches.

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So, according to you there's no way the rise in walks per 9 innings could be related to coming to a new team and possibly putting pressure on himself? And there's no way he could have more stress with Detroit because Florida was actually good and attracted fans?

You don't need "reasons" to have anxiety disorder. Sometimes you just have it.

But you shouldn't get one all of a sudden and keep it the rest of your prime, especially with a professional team and a 12 million dollar salary.

Plus, like I said in the other post, why if someone had an anxiety disorder, why would you continue to change their delivery over and over.

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I believe in mental illness, I just don't believe that the D-Train has one... Why would they keep changing his delivery if it was all in his head? Wouldn't they try to relax him and get him professional help for it? Not change how he pitches.
Or have his mind concentrate on something else. Convince him they know the problem and here is a possible solution. Get the mind right and possibly the body will follow. Know it works on me.

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But you shouldn't get one all of a sudden and keep it the rest of your prime, especially with a professional team and a 12 million dollar salary.

This makes absolutely no sense. Try telling this to Zack Greinke sometime. He makes millions of dollars a year and plays pro baseball, but he still had social anxiety! Playing pro ball/making lots of money does not mean you should be immune to something 18% of Americans is afflicted with!

Plus, like I said in the other post, why if someone had an anxiety disorder, why would you continue to change their delivery over and over.

This doesn't make sense either. Why would him having an anxiety disorder preclude the team from changing his delivery? It is entirely possible that the anxiety disorder and them fiddling with his delivery are not mutually exclusive. Or, heck, maybe insecurity with an unfamiliar delivery made him more anxious!

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I believe in mental illness, I just don't believe that the D-Train has one... Why would they keep changing his delivery if it was all in his head? Wouldn't they try to relax him and get him professional help for it? Not change how he pitches.

What if he refused professional help? Or denied he had an anxiety disorder? What would you, the Detroit Tigers, do then? You can't release him because he makes too much money and you haven't tricked the D'backs into trading for him yet.

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But you shouldn't get one all of a sudden and keep it the rest of your prime, especially with a professional team and a 12 million dollar salary.

Plus, like I said in the other post, why if someone had an anxiety disorder, why would you continue to change their delivery over and over.

Money and prime years are the cure for anxiety disorder? Thanks doc!

I'm failing to see what changing a delivery has to do with anxiety disorder. I don't get it.

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What if he refused professional help? Or denied he had an anxiety disorder? What would you, the Detroit Tigers, do then? You can't release him because he makes too much money and you haven't tricked the D'backs into trading for him yet.

Alright then, saying that it was anxiety disorder... Seek legal action to have his contract reduced or voided! Part of his contract is that he will play baseball for the Detroit Tigers organization to his full maximum ability. If taking that medication or seeing that shrink is what he would need to do, then that is grounds for at least a fight in the courts.

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Personally, I think it's possible that Dontrelle is simply a classic case of Dumb ***ed Contract Extension Disorder .....

Now THAT I do believe that Dave Dombrowski has... No treatment yet found.

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Alright then, saying that it was anxiety disorder... Seek legal action to have his contract reduced or voided! Part of his contract is that he will play baseball for the Detroit Tigers organization to his full maximum ability. If taking that medication or seeing that shrink is what he would need to do, then that is grounds for at least a fight in the courts.

The MLBPA would probably get involved.

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Money and prime years are the cure for anxiety disorder? Thanks doc!

I'm failing to see what changing a delivery has to do with anxiety disorder. I don't get it.

What? that isn't what I'm saying at all! I'm saying that going from Florida to Detroit, there is very little I see that could cause an anxiety disorder! I know you could say that sometimes anxiety just happens without a trigger, but then who is to say that right now Brad Penny has an anxiety disorder and refuses to take medication which is why he is pitching so bad... No, it is just because he, like so many others, failed to transition well from the NL to the AL.

Exactly. They have nothing to do with each other. So why, if Dontrelle has an anxiety disorder, do you continue to constantly change his delivery trying to find a problem with it? If he refused to take meds or seek help, why not take legal action or just wait it out? Wouldn't changing his mechanics just be detremental when he is 100% mentally again?

But they continued to change everything about his PITCHING, not his psychi.

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The MLBPA would probably get involved.

Well, everyone would get involved... It probably wouldn't be the best move in the long run (man hours, time not spent getting better, etc.), but you could tell him you would. If him and his agent call your bluff, then either go through with it or stick his *** on the 60 Day DL.

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I am really not in the mood to have discussions about Dontrelle Willis' ~*~imaginary anxiety~*~ and I'm probably going to come off as really ******, but here goes.

The Tigers fiddling with his delivery could have absolutely NOTHING to do with it! Or their fiddling could have actually exacerbated it! Just because they tried tweaking his delivery doesn't mean he couldn't possibly have anxiety! They are not mutually exclusive!

I don't know how this works but teams probably can't force a player to take meds or seek help without the player's consent, either. I also doubt they can threaten to void his contract to force him to take meds or see psychiatrists. But what would I know.

Hey! It is entirely possible your conspiracy theory is right! But it probably isn't.

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Well, everyone would get involved... It probably wouldn't be the best move in the long run (man hours, time not spent getting better, etc.), but you could tell him you would. If him and his agent call your bluff, then either go through with it or stick his *** on the 60 Day DL.

That wouldn't be a PR problem at ALL. I'm sure agents would just be flocking to you after that.

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Speaking of Dontrelle, he shut down the Mudhens the other night...6ip, 3h, no runs, 1 walk and 5 k's.

I wnder if/hope he is on medication now.

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I believe in mental illness, I just don't believe that the D-Train has one... Why would they keep changing his delivery if it was all in his head? Wouldn't they try to relax him and get him professional help for it? Not change how he pitches.

they did

he chose to ignore

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