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Why don't the Tigers love Sizemore?

The Tigers sent down Sizemore because:  

67 members have voted

  1. 1. The Tigers sent down Sizemore because:

    • Carlos is coming back, and they think sending down a 'settled in' Sizemore would be worse for him
      10
    • They believe Rhymes is just a better player right now
      32
    • There are clubhouse issues unknown to public
      10
    • They want the "#2 type" hitter even at less OPS than Sizemore
      13
    • They believe his defense is not up to MLB std or not good enough to play next to Peralta
      7
    • Something in his approach makes them believe his MiLB hitting is not going to carry over
      14


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It's game 120 of the season and the Tigers are tied for the division with 40 games left. Sizemore has had 200 AB's and a 631 OPS. Rhymes has had 200 AB's and a 763 OPS. Who do you play?

It's not game 120 of the season. They are both coming off a winter where they didn't play and they both had lackluster spring trainings. So, if I was going to make a decision based on stats, I'd put more weight on their 1,500 minor league PAs than their 200 MLB PAs.

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It's not game 120 of the season. They are both coming off a winter where they didn't play and they both had lackluster spring trainings. So, if I was going to make a decision based on stats, I'd put more weight on their 1,500 minor league PAs than their 200 MLB PAs.

Sizemore's 1500 minor league AB's mean nothing if he can't get it done in the majors.

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Congratulation Minnesota Twins, 2011 AL Central Champions.

High on Nishioka, too?

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High on Nishioka, too?

Nope. The Twins typically play the players who perform the best.

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So a good question might be how low does Rhymes have to hit before Sizemore should be called up to replace him. Of course Guillen coming back will affect this. I say if he doesn't have a OPS of .700 or higher after 2 months Sizemore should be given a chance, personally a .700 OPS would be the as low as I would go, below .750 would be a better number.

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So a good question might be how low does Rhymes have to hit before Sizemore should be called up to replace him. Of course Guillen coming back will affect this. I say if he doesn't have a OPS of .700 or higher after 2 months Sizemore should be given a chance, personally a .700 OPS would be the as low as I would go, below .750 would be a better number.

Considering Sizemore couldn't even muster a 650 OPS in the majors, I'll go with 700.

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It's game 120 of the season and the Tigers are tied for the division with 40 games left. Sizemore has had 200 AB's and a 631 OPS. Rhymes has had 200 AB's and a 763 OPS. Who do you play?

You play the one you think is the most likely to succeed.

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You play the one you think is the most likely to succeed.

Which appears to be Rhymes.

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Which appears to be Rhymes.

Hopefully you are right and we see Polanco-lite. I guess we'll know by June or so.

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Hopefully you are right and we see Polanco-lite. I guess we'll know by June or so.

I think he'll be Polanco lite offensively, but not defensively. I think he'll be closer to Eckstein.

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Which appears to be Rhymes.

Sure, if you have no analytical skills whatsoever.

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Sure, if you have no analytical skills whatsoever.

So what about his 631 OPS impressed you?

These analytical skills you speak of, are they the ones that say play the worst player because he's a good minor league player? :confused:

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The debate is interesting, but personally I still most of the heat here is over the wrong comparison.

If you could look into the future today and know that Sizemore would have a higher career MLB OPS than Rhymes, Rhymes would still be playing because he is lefthanded, can bunt, runs better than Sizemore, and maybe field better (I'm non-committal on that one).

Yes, there is *some* OPS differential at which Sizemore overcomes that 'fit' differential, but we don't know what the number is for the Tiger's brass. To simple say that in absolute terms, Sizemore projects as a better MLB offensive player is not enough for him. He has to show that difference is enough to overcome the other considerations, and so far that is what he hasn't done. Ergo - to start the job is Rhymes's until he doesn't maintain his OBP or Sizemore goes to Toledo and really pounds the ball, or both.

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The debate is interesting, but personally I still think it is the wrong comparison.

If you could look into the future today and know that Sizemore would have a higher career MLB OPS than Rhymes, Rhymes would still be playing because he is lefthanded, can bunt, runs better than Sizemore, and maybe field better (I'm non-committal on that one).

Yes, there is *some* OPS differential at which Sizemore overcomes that 'fit' differential, but we don't know what the number is for the Tiger's brass. To simple say that in absolute terms, Sizemore projects as a better MLB offensive player is not enough for him. He has to show that difference is enough to overcome the other considerations, and so far that is what he hasn't done. Ergo - to start the job is Rhymes's until he doesn't maintain his OBP or Sizemore goes to Toledo and really pounds the ball, or both.

Way too much logic there G2. That is not what this thread is about any longer.

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So what about his 631 OPS impressed you?

These analytical skills you speak of, are they the ones that say play the worst player because he's a good minor league player? :confused:

So if Brennan Boesch comes out and hits better than Cabrera in April, do you just assume that he's going to be the better player for the rest of the season? At what point do you tell yourself "maybe I should look further than a mere 100 AB's to determine who the better player will be"?

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The debate is interesting, but personally I still most of the heat here is over the wrong comparison.

If you could look into the future today and know that Sizemore would have a higher career MLB OPS than Rhymes, Rhymes would still be playing because he is lefthanded, can bunt, runs better than Sizemore, and maybe field better (I'm non-committal on that one).

Yes, there is *some* OPS differential at which Sizemore overcomes that 'fit' differential, but we don't know what the number is for the Tiger's brass. To simple say that in absolute terms, Sizemore projects as a better MLB offensive player is not enough for him. He has to show that difference is enough to overcome the other considerations, and so far that is what he hasn't done. Ergo - to start the job is Rhymes's until he doesn't maintain his OBP or Sizemore goes to Toledo and really pounds the ball, or both.

I doubt Rhymes would still be playing. Rhymes out hit Sizemore when given an equal opportunity. I'm not sure why that is hard for some people to come to terms with. Sizemore was given the job and he lost it. How many AB's do we give to Sizemore before we pull the plug? Since 200 isn't enough, what is the number? How many 630 OPS AB's do we need to prove he can't hit in the majors? Why should Rhymes not have those AB's to prove that last year wasn't a fluke?

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Way too much logic there G2. That is not what this thread is about any longer.

Apparently.

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Way too much logic there G2. That is not what this thread is about any longer.

It's the Josh Anderson analogy in my signature that gave it away?

I bet analytically it doesn't take much OPS to overcome the fit. G2 is right, though in that it only matters what the Tiger brass think about the fit advantage.

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So if Brennan Boesch comes out and hits better than Cabrera in April, do you just assume that he's going to be the better player for the rest of the season? At what point do you tell yourself "maybe I should look further than a mere 100 AB's to determine who the better player will be"?

Boesch isn't a 1B and Sizemore doesn't have a proven MLB track record like Cabrera. The fact you would come up with this sort of comparison makes me question your analytical skills.

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It's the Josh Anderson analogy in my signature that gave it away?

I bet analytically it doesn't take much OPS to overcome the fit. G2 is right, though in that it only matters what the Tiger brass think about the fit advantage.

Oh hell Jay, I have seen that and thought it was your AAT's. That's funny.

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Way to dodge the question....

At what point do you look past such a small sample size? It isn't as good of an indicator of future success as the thousands of AB's each of them had in the minor leagues.

Sizemore

2038 PA's

.828 OPS

Rhymes

2892 PA's

.728 OPS

You can ignore all of that en leu of less than half a season at the majors, when one of them was injured, but I'm not going to. The sample size is too small and there are other factors involved.

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And since you love small sample sizes, Sizemore's OPS was even 80 pts higher than Will's just this spring. Sounds a lot like their whole careers... hmmmm.

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Way to dodge the question....

At what point do you look past such a small sample size? It isn't as good of an indicator of future success as the thousands of AB's each of them had in the minor leagues.

Sizemore

2038 PA's

.828 OPS

Rhymes

2892 PA's

.728 OPS

You can ignore all of that en leu of less than half a season at the majors, when one of them was injured, but I'm not going to. The sample size is too small and there are other factors involved.

How did I dodge the question? Your comparison was stupid. If Sizemore was Cabrera, we wouldn't be having this discussion because Sizemore would've performed last year. Neither Sizemore nor Rhymes are proven commodities. I could care less if Sizemore is a minor league all-star. Gabe Kapler has a 913 OPS in 2338 AB's.

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Rhymes out hit Sizemore when given an equal opportunity. I'm not sure why that is hard for some people to come to terms with.

They understand that. However, they are putting more weight on 1,500 minor league plate appearances than 200 MLB PA. Why is that difficult for you to come to terms with? It's not as cut and dried as you are making it out to be.

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