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Shinma

Ozzie.

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I never played as a kid (baseball was the primary sport me and my friends played), and didn't get into hockey as a fan until I was 13-14, which was right when the Wings had their first real play-off run in my life and ran into a well Oiled machine in Edmonton. Since that time I was a fan of the (puck possession) game in general and Red Wings in particular.

Fast forward 20+ years later, and I started playing pick-up hockey at roughly the same time as my oldest son started playing mini-mites. My hope is that by the time he is a Bantam I can bring him with me, and I not embarass myself too badly.

I am pretty lucky - both of my sons are pretty good players - will certainly become better players than I can hope to do, yet I am pretty sure high school is their ceiling (presuming they are still interested in the game at that time), so I am not stressed out about not making AAA travel teams and all of that.

Ahh, youre a hockey parent, I cant tell you how much I miss the rink, I grew up playing hockey (AA and AAA) and remember my parents having to forfeit their weekends to drive me all over Michigan. Here is a good article on hockey parents if youre interested, it was written by John Buccigross:

John Buccigross: My 13 simple rules for hockey parents everywhere - ESPN

I am not as convinced it is a lock. Time will tell.

Not the 1st time we have disagreed :).

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The real question about goalies of this era that gets me is who is the best goalie of this era, I have changed my answer to that a couple times, but I think now that it is Brodeur. Hasek I think was the best at his peak, but I think Brodeur was so good for so long he has to be 1. I am probably biased against Roy, but he and Hasek are 2/3 clearly but I dont know what order to put them in.

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Anyways, this is a case where the numbers certainly lie, Grant Fuhr is way beyond Osgood, just as Vernon and Hasek were when Osgood was backing them up.

Roy, Hasek and Brodeur were way beyond Osgood. But Fuhr and Vernon were not, Osgood is right in the mix with them. I do agree with you about how comparing GAA and Save % would be unfair to Fuhr, given the era he played in.

One point about the importance of wins and how the stat can be misleading. The NHL leader in wins this year is .... Jimmy Howard.

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Roy, Hasek and Brodeur were way beyond Osgood. But Fuhr and Vernon were not, Osgood is right in the mix with them. I do agree with you about how comparing GAA and Save % would be unfair to Fuhr, given the era he played in.

One point about the importance of wins and how the stat can be misleading. The NHL leader in wins this year is .... Jimmy Howard.

But is Jimmy Howard going to get 400 wins? 400 wins cannot be overlooked for NHL goalies, its a rare feat. But youre right, its misleading, but its not like Ozzie was a sieve out on the ice.

I cant believe I am defending Ozzie, I HATE the red wings.

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Brodeur resume - 1 calder, 3x 1st team all star, 4x 2nd team all star, 10x all star, 2 olympic golds, 3 cups, 4 Vezinas, 5 Jennings 2.21 gaa 9.14 save % 602 wins 114 SO, 99 playoff wins 2..01 playoff gaa .919 playoff save % 23 playoff SO

Roy resume - 1 calder, 4x 1st team all star, 2x 2nd team all star, 11x all star, 4 cups, 3 conn smythes, 5 Jennings, 3 Vezinas 2.54 GAA .910 save % (played in 80s, hurt his stats) 551 wins 66 SO, 151 playoff wins 2.30 playoff gaa .918 playoff save % 23 playoff SO.

Hasek resume - Hasek - 2 Hart Trophy's (only goalie in history to win multiple harts), 2 Pearson's, 6 Vezina's, 3 Jenning's, 6x 1st team all star, gold medal olympian, best goalie at the olympics honor, 2 stanley cups. 389 wins 2.20 gaa .922 save % 81 shutouts. 65 playoff wins 2.02 playoff GAA .925 playoff save % 14 playoff SO

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But is Jimmy Howard going to get 400 wins? 400 wins cannot be overlooked for NHL goalies, its a rare feat. But youre right, its misleading, but its not like Ozzie was a sieve out on the ice.

I cant believe I am defending Ozzie, I HATE the red wings.

But how many goalies of this era would have won 400+ and at least 2 cups starting if they got to play with the Wings their whole career? If Howard played with the Wings starting when Ozzie did and played as long as Ozzie 400 wins and 2 cups wouldnt shock me from him either. The most amazing thing about Ozzie is his longevity, but I guess since he was never a true clear #1 like some of the other guys it was easier for him to stay fresh.

Osgood only started 55+ games in a season 4 times and once was in STL and once in NYI. Guys like Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Jospeh were doing that year in and year out.

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But how many goalies of this era would have won 400+ and at least 2 cups starting if they got to play with the Wings their whole career? If Howard played with the Wings starting when Ozzie did and played as long as Ozzie 400 wins and 2 cups wouldnt shock me from him either. The most amazing thing about Ozzie is his longevity, but I guess since he was never a true clear #1 like some of the other guys it was easier for him to stay fresh.

Osgood only started 55+ games in a season 4 times and once was in STL and once in NYI. Guys like Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Jospeh were doing that year in and year out.

Youre not wrong. Many goalies probably would have put up similar numbers had they been in Ozzies position. He is lucky, because in my opinion he will get into the Hall pretty much for being a Wing his whole life. When they are looking at his resume they wont say "luck bastard, got to play for the wings," they will say "400 wins, 3 cups, yes sir."

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Joey doesn't inspire confidence from Holland apparently.....don't blame him:

Notebook: Osgood says, 'I'll be back' - Detroit Red Wings - News

Osgood’s health is a concern for the Red Wings’ organization. On Tuesday’s “NHL Live” on XM Radio, Wings general manager Ken Holland indicated that he is prepared to search for a goalie by Monday’s trade deadline, if Osgood’s health is a concern.

“If he has a good week this week, we may stand pat,” Holland said. “Certainly he’s our No. 1 priority heading into next Monday.”

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Osgood only started 55+ games in a season 4 times and once was in STL and once in NYI. Guys like Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Jospeh were doing that year in and year out.

Starting so many fewer games - and still won 400. Yeah, he's not really that good.

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Starting so many fewer games - and still won 400. Yeah, he's not really that good.

The guys I mentioned (and mentioned in this thread as Ozzie's competition for Hall) all have over 400 wins or played less games, so I dont get your point. Roy had way more wins, Hasek played less games (overseas and Chicago being idiots), Brodeur way more wins, Curtis Joseph more wins, Grant Fuhr more wins, Belfour more wins...Fact is part of reason (I believe) Ozzie has been able to hold up so long is he never had to shoulder the load. He got plenty of rest and was always fresh. He was never a true #1 when he was in Detroit, either a 1a, 1b or a backup(except for maybe 1 or 2 seasons in late 90s). Jimmy Howard is about to have as many 55+ game seasons in his Wings career as Ozzie did, and this is only his second season.

Anyway, ts funny people on here want to hinge Osgood's wins on why he is an elite goalie, but if we went over to baseball board you would get ripped on if you even mention a pitchers win total. Its not equivalent, but its close (Goalie wins v. Pitcher wins). He played for the most dominant team of his generation, I would hope he racked up a ton of wins.

BTW I dont think anyone is saying he is not that good......but go ahead and twist peoples words around. My opinion is he is a better than average goalie who was fortunate enough to play his whole career (mostly) for the most dominant team of his era. He is a lot like Andy Pettite to me, Pettite just retired and people are debating his HOF credentials now. He won a couple WS, piled up wins playing for that great Yankees team and made 2-3 all star games along the way. He was never a top 5 pitcher in baseball but was solid for a long time.

Edited by Johnny Mac

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Anyway, ts funny people on here want to hinge Osgood's wins on why he is an elite goalie, but if we went over to baseball board you would get ripped on if you even mention a pitchers win total. Its not equivalent, but its close (Goalie wins v. Pitcher wins). He played for the most dominant team of his generation, I would hope he racked up a ton of wins.

BTW I dont think anyone is saying he is not that good......but go ahead and twist peoples words around. My opinion is he is a better than average goalie who was fortunate enough to play his whole career (mostly) for the most dominant team of his era. He is a lot like Andy Pettite to me, Pettite just retired and people are debating his HOF credentials now. He won a couple WS, piled up wins playing for that great Yankees team and made 2-3 all star games along the way. He was never a top 5 pitcher in baseball but was solid for a long time.

I think you could even argue that goalie wins is less meaningful than pitcher wins. Almost down to the level of closer saves, if you ask me. Not that a goalie isn't more important than a closer, of course a goalie is, but the wins/saves stat alone.

Pettite sounds about right. From my gut and off the top of my head without checking their stats in detail, maybe Ozzie comparable to Ben Roethlisberger and Curtis Joseph like Donovan McNabb? I know Roethlisberger is earlier in his career, but he's not a perennial Pro Bowler yet has made it to and won the big game a few times. You could easily come up with a half-dozen QBs who you'd think, based on regular season stats, could theoretically have achieved the same level of playoff success if they were the Steelers' QB, but then again they haven't actually done so. McNabb and Joseph have some post-season victories so can't be considered complete playoff busts, but never reached the champion status that tends to resonate among voters.

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The guys I mentioned (and mentioned in this thread as Ozzie's competition for Hall) all have over 400 wins or played less games, so I dont get your point. Roy had way more wins, Hasek played less games (overseas and Chicago being idiots), Brodeur way more wins, Curtis Joseph more wins, Grant Fuhr more wins, Belfour more wins...Fact is part of reason (I believe) Ozzie has been able to hold up so long is he never had to shoulder the load. He got plenty of rest and was always fresh. He was never a true #1 when he was in Detroit, either a 1a, 1b or a backup(except for maybe 1 or 2 seasons in late 90s). Jimmy Howard is about to have as many 55+ game seasons in his Wings career as Ozzie did, and this is only his second season.

Anyway, ts funny people on here want to hinge Osgood's wins on why he is an elite goalie, but if we went over to baseball board you would get ripped on if you even mention a pitchers win total. Its not equivalent, but its close (Goalie wins v. Pitcher wins). He played for the most dominant team of his generation, I would hope he racked up a ton of wins.

BTW I dont think anyone is saying he is not that good......but go ahead and twist peoples words around. My opinion is he is a better than average goalie who was fortunate enough to play his whole career (mostly) for the most dominant team of his era. He is a lot like Andy Pettite to me, Pettite just retired and people are debating his HOF credentials now. He won a couple WS, piled up wins playing for that great Yankees team and made 2-3 all star games along the way. He was never a top 5 pitcher in baseball but was solid for a long time.

i just read this, and think it is a solid post.

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Conference call about and with Osgood tomorrow. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether he's coming back. But some are saying the smart money is on him coming back. No other goalie has been signed and this isn't a full-blown press conference. We'll know for sure by this time tomorrow.

I expect we'll see lots of Joey Mac next year. Who probably after his stint up here last season isn't that much worse than any other backup out there. Including Conklin.

Edited by lordstanley

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Conference call about and with Osgood tomorrow. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether he's coming back. But some are saying the smart money is on him coming back. No other goalie has been signed and this isn't a full-blown press conference. We'll know for sure by this time tomorrow.

I expect we'll see lots of Joey Mac next year. Who probably after his stint up here last season isn't that much worse than any other backup out there. Including Conklin.

The Free Press is already reporting that the conference call is to announce his return next season.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110718/SPORTS05/110718066/Wings-schedule-Chris-Osgood-conference-call-Tuesday?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports

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I really wanted the Wings to sign Conklin, I hope that article is right. I was pretty bummed when I saw the conference call, I assumed he was re-signing. His age/health/skill doesn't even lend itself to a backup in the NHL these days. He hit his milestone last year, time to ride off into the sunset.

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Thought I would cross post my tweet:

Cheers Ozzie, somehow you are both over and under appreciated. Thanks for the cups, all the wins, and most of all your loyalty.

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