Jump to content

Shinma

Ozzie.

Recommended Posts

LOL. I don't think Howard has been that bad. What has been bad is the porous Wings defense that has left Howie out to dry far too often. And in the last four games Howie has been quite good and so has the D. Funny how that works. As far as Ozzie being bad, he's done real well since coming from the Blues in the playoffs. Remember he had an awful regular season in 08-09 but was solid through the finals. If Joey sees ice time in the playoffs, it will be because both Howie and Ozzie are hurt.

08-09 - Horrible Season, very good playoffs.

09-10 - Lost the starting job, another horrible season, no playoff time.

10-11 - Starts as the Backup, hurt, another bad season anyways.

These past three years have arguably been his worst, minus the playoffs three years ago, in his individual career.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know where this thread is coming from, I think from all indications Ozzie is expected to be back this season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yup, and he has a pretty big margin in the win column on Chris to boot.

There were 4 contemporary goalies of Chris' with many, many more wins than he (Joseph, Belfour, Roy and Brodeur), and a 5th that was clearly a better goalie (Hasek). I just don't see how Chris stacks up all that well when comparing him against goalies of his era when considering his case as a HoF goaltender.

That's where I think the Cups & individual awards come into play. CuJo never won a Cup & really didn't win any major award, but made a few ASG's. Belfour won a Cup, won a lot of awards & made a lot of ASG's. Roy won 4 Cups, won tons of awards & made a ton of ASG's. Brodeur has won 3 Cups, and like Roy has won tons of awards & made a ton of ASG's.

Looking at all that, I'd think that Osgood has a shot of being elected into the HOF, but there are clearly other goalies that deserve it over him, even with the Cups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grant Fuhr

GP- 868

W-403

L-295

T-114

Min-48,945

GA -2,756

SO-25

GAA-3.38

SV PCT.887

PLAYOFF PCT .900

Chris Osgood

GP-744

W-401

L-216

T-95

MIN-42,564

GA-1768

SO -50

GAA-2.49

SV PCT -.905

PLAYOFF PCT .916

If Grant Fuhr is in the Hall Of Fame, then Chris Osgood should be. Look at that team Fuhr had in front of him.

way, way different eras.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ill reserve my comments until he announces his retirement... I'm expecting him to back up howard for the rest of this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's where I think the Cups & individual awards come into play. CuJo never won a Cup & really didn't win any major award, but made a few ASG's. Belfour won a Cup, won a lot of awards & made a lot of ASG's. Roy won 4 Cups, won tons of awards & made a ton of ASG's. Brodeur has won 3 Cups, and like Roy has won tons of awards & made a ton of ASG's.

Looking at all that, I'd think that Osgood has a shot of being elected into the HOF, but there are clearly other goalies that deserve it over him, even with the Cups.

Brodeur, Roy and Hasek are no-doubters. They are absolute locks to make the hall.

I think Belfour is next in line, though I could see him being made to wait a little bit.

Joseph and Osgood are behind Belfour, and I don't think it an insignificant amount. Personally, I'd put Chris ahead of Curtis slightly, but my point of my commentary was in response to Motor City Sonics' assertion that 400 wins -> you get into the Hall of Fame. If that is true, then Joseph gets in, no problem. I just don't see that. Also, how about Mike Vernon? Does he get excluded because he *only* has 385 wins?

10 men have won 400 games. Half of those (including the top 4(!)) played in the 90's and 2000's. Osgood is 5th in that group. Maybe it is just me, but it seems players of this most recent generation are likely playing in a favorable environment to rack up wins as a goalie. If so, I think that should be considered when considering the impressiveness of getting 400 wins against Vernon's 385 wins, John Vanbiesbrouck's 374 wins, or Andy Moog's 372 wins.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
These past three years have arguably been [Chris Osgood's] worst, minus the playoffs three years ago, in his individual career.

I don't think it is even arguable, I think that is pretty much fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys must be too close to this. Osgood will be a hall of famer, no questions. He is top 10 wins of all time, top 5 win % of all time, 3 stanley cups (two while in net) and a career GAA of .249. This one is a no brainer for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You guys must be too close to this. Osgood will be a hall of famer, no questions. He is top 10 wins of all time, top 5 win % of all time, 3 stanley cups (two while in net) and a career GAA of .249. This one is a no brainer for me.

How many goalies from the last 20 years are going into the Hall, in your opinion?

Also, GAA are down from previous generations, whereas save percentages are up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think it is even arguable, I think that is pretty much fact.

No one is questioning his regular season issues toward the end of his career. But all that matters in the end is the playoffs and look up the numbers in recent years and they are good. Howard was the guy last year but the two previous years have been Ozzie. .926 and .930 save pct and GAA less than 2.00. I think more at issue is the injuries and his availability. Plus, at 38, he ain't gonna get any better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't repeat my own thoughts on Osgood in/out of the HHOF. To summarize, I'd keep him out and I wouldn't retire his jersey. But I'm thinking more and more he'll get in. On the strength of his playoff record. I'd be fine with that, it's close enough that it wouldn't be a travesty either way. Regardless, he's had a great career. One that has spanned the entire length (albeit with that interruption in the middle) of the Wings' era of excellence. Sobbing after the Game 7 heartbreaker to the Sharks in '94, celebrating with his proud mom after bobbles and all winning the Cup in '98, and then the dressing room interviews after the '08 Cup win. 3 images I'll long remember.

I remember walking into The Joe for Game 5 of the SCF in 2008 with my uncle, my brother, and my sister-in-law (who incidentally, succumbed to cancer at the tragically young age of 37 two months ago, which now clouds my memories of that game) wishing three things: a) for there to be a reason for an Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie chant in the 3rd period; b) for there to be a deafening "We Want The Cup, We Want The Cup" chant in the final minutes; and c) to see the Wings hoist the Cup on home ice in front of my eyes. Oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How many goalies from the last 20 years are going into the Hall, in your opinion?

Also, GAA are down from previous generations, whereas save percentages are up.

Cujo-4th in wins

Broduer-Lock

Belfour-Lock

Hasek-Close to a Lock

Osgood-Will get it

Since 1993 only two goalies have gotten into the Hall; Fuhr and Roy and I am going to say 5 goalies from this generation get in. Here is how I would rank them in terms of chances:

Broduer

Belfour

Osgood

Hasek

Cujo.

Like I said, Osgood is top 5 in percentage, top 10 in wins, above .900 sv % and GAA lower than 2.50. He is a lock in my opinion. His resume his just too impressive to pass up. what are your your thoughts?

EDIT: Osgood ranks 2nd all time in win % with goalies who have played more than 500 games and 6th all time with no qualifier. The only one ahead in the former category is Marty (.552 and .539)

Edited by T&P_Fan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hasek - 2 Hart Trophy's (only goalie in history to win multiple harts), 2 Pearson's, 6 Vezina's, 3 Jenning's (one shared with Ozzie), 6x 1st team all star, nominated for 3 more harts, gold medal olympian, best goalie at the olympics honor, 2 stanley cups. 389 wins 2.20 gaa .922 save % 81 shutouts. 65 playoff wins 2.02 playoff GAA .925 playoff save % 14 playoff SO

Osgood - 2 Jennings (both while splitting time, once with Vernon once with Hasek), 1x second team all star, 3 cups....401 wins (playing with the best team of his generation), 2.49 GAA .905 save % and 50 shutouts 74 playoff wins 2.09 playoff gaa .916 playoff save % 15 playoff so

Hasek v. Osgood is a no brainer, Hasek was a FAR superior goalie to Osgood.

Edited by Johnny Mac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cujo-4th in wins

Broduer-Lock

Belfour-Lock

Hasek-Close to a Lock

Osgood-Will get it

Broduer

Belfour

Osgood

Hasek

Cujo.

Roy, Broduer, and Hasek are head and shoulders above the remaining candidates, IMO, and are as much as locks as Yzerman was or Lidstrom is.

Then comes Belfour, who is clearly ahead of Osgood and Cujo, IMO.

Like I said, Osgood is top 5 in percentage, top 10 in wins, above .900 sv % and GAA lower than 2.50. He is a lock in my opinion. His resume his just too impressive to pass up. what are your your thoughts?

My thoughts are that Osgood has had a super career, but I simply do not think he was a HoF caliber goaltender.

Osgood rarely was a top 5 goalie in the league in any one season, so I have a hard time placing him among the all-time greats. There also really isn't all that much separating him from Mike Vernon or John Vanbiesbrouck or Andy Moog - or - perhaps more accurately, I think he is a lot closer to the level of play of those guys, than he is to Ed Belfour, who I think is head and shoulders below Roy, Broduer, or Hasek. So I am in no rush to advocate Chris.

EDIT: Osgood ranks 2nd all time in win % with goalies who have played more than 500 games and 6th all time with no qualifier. The only one ahead in the former category is Marty (.552 and .539)

I'd be curious to know what his team's winning percentage was when he wasn't starting, in comparison to other goalies. My guess is the win % is driven largely by his team's win %.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Roy, Broduer, and Hasek are head and shoulders above the remaining candidates, IMO, and are as much as locks as Yzerman was or Lidstrom is.

Then comes Belfour, who is clearly ahead of Osgood and Cujo, IMO.

I meant to put Hasek higher, that was a typo earlier. But I do believe everyone I mentioned will be in the Hall of Fame.

My thoughts are that Osgood has had a super career, but I simply do not think he was a HoF caliber goaltender.

Osgood rarely was a top 5 goalie in the league in any one season, so I have a hard time placing him among the all-time greats. There also really isn't all that much separating him from Mike Vernon or John Vanbiesbrouck or Andy Moog - or - perhaps more accurately, I think he is a lot closer to the level of play of those guys, than he is to Ed Belfour, who I think is head and shoulders below Roy, Broduer, or Hasek. So I am in no rush to advocate Chris.

I wont disagree with this, youre probably right. When you think of Osgood you dont say Hall of Famer, you say right place, right time. And no question the win percentage is probably inflated playing for the wings all those years. But when you just look at his resume and accomplishments compared to others, it becomes unmistakable, he currently holds a HOF resume. His longevity has provided him with some great numbers. But most importantly, he has 3 cups and 400 wins, thats a lock.

I think were are on the same page. Should he be a HOF? Maybe not. But I am convinced he will be in without question.

BTW, I had no idea you liked hockey as well. You run into so many people who only post about the Tigers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grant Fuhr

GP- 868

W-403

L-295

T-114

Min-48,945

GA -2,756

SO-25

GAA-3.38

SV PCT.887

PLAYOFF PCT .900

Chris Osgood

GP-744

W-401

L-216

T-95

MIN-42,564

GA-1768

SO -50

GAA-2.49

SV PCT -.905

PLAYOFF PCT .916

If Grant Fuhr is in the Hall Of Fame, then Chris Osgood should be. Look at that team Fuhr had in front of him.

FUHR was the defense of the Edmonton Oilers. Chris Osgood's numbers are inflated to the positive, while Fuhr's are inflated to the negative. Not to mention Fuhr played at a time when Offenses weren't bogged down by all the Traps/chuck and dump slowdown stuff of today. Osgood isn't in Fuhr's league, he's not even in the league of many of his contemporaries today, he just played for a good team his whole career.

Anyways, this is a case where the numbers certainly lie, Grant Fuhr is way beyond Osgood, just as Vernon and Hasek were when Osgood was backing them up.

Edit: read through some other post in this thread, I think Osgood can be likened to Morris. Osgood was never a top goalie, but he put in a lot of good years. I see people arguing about Joseph, Curtis Joseph at his best was a top 3 goaltender in the league, was Osgood ever that?

Edited by DrWho17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
he just played for a good team his whole career.

He took a pretty crappy Islanders team to the playoffs and was solid in St. Louis before coming back to Detroit. Not saying it makes him the best ever or anything like that, but some people do forget those years.

PS Ozzie practiced fully today so it sounds like he's going to be back

Edited by drownwithyou

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BTW, I had no idea you liked hockey as well. You run into so many people who only post about the Tigers.

I never played as a kid (baseball was the primary sport me and my friends played), and didn't get into hockey as a fan until I was 13-14, which was right when the Wings had their first real play-off run in my life and ran into a well Oiled machine in Edmonton. Since that time I was a fan of the (puck possession) game in general and Red Wings in particular.

Fast forward 20+ years later, and I started playing pick-up hockey at roughly the same time as my oldest son started playing mini-mites. My hope is that by the time he is a Bantam I can bring him with me, and I not embarass myself too badly.

I am pretty lucky - both of my sons are pretty good players - will certainly become better players than I can hope to do, yet I am pretty sure high school is their ceiling (presuming they are still interested in the game at that time), so I am not stressed out about not making AAA travel teams and all of that.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
His longevity has provided him with some great numbers. But most importantly, he has 3 cups and 400 wins, thats a lock.

I am not as convinced it is a lock. Time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×