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Nets try to involve Pistons in deal for Anthony

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Uh, are you joking?

Please enlighten me how NJ's deal is better. Which part am I joking about? We give them WAY more cap space in our deal, a safer young big(less ceiling, sure), a much cheaper and younger PG and still the 2 firsts and cash. NJ didn't clear Okur for them

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I wonder if we could have had Deron. Would you have given up say, Stuckey,Prince,Monroe and Maxiell(filler that I'd make them take) plus maybe a 2012 1st and say Dejuan Summers for Deron and Okur? Monroe and Favors should be similar in trade value at this point(Monroe would be drafted before him in a re-draft I believe) and Utah would probably rather have Stuckey than the older, more expensive Devin Harris. You also clear Okur's deal this way and also add a draft pick and a young player. I'd make it 2012 and 14 picks if it closed the deal.

Why the hell would the Jazz want anything to do with Stuckey, Prince or Maxiell?

Harris is light years better than Stuckey.

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Please enlighten me how NJ's deal is better. Which part am I joking about? We give them WAY more cap space in our deal, a safer young big(less ceiling, sure), a much cheaper and younger PG and still the 2 firsts and cash. NJ didn't clear Okur for them

Favors is and has always been a 3 year project. Everyone knew that going into the draft. No way would he be picked higher than Monroe now.

Utah tried to move up and draft Favors.

Devin Harris is a combo guard, but his PG skills are much better than Stuckey.

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Why the hell would the Jazz want anything to do with Stuckey, Prince or Maxiell?

Harris is light years better than Stuckey.

Wow I just disagree with the last part so much I can't even express it. Harris is Stuckey, just older and he costs 6 million more. If Utah is going to rebuild, the key should be getting young and getting rid of salary. Our deal helps them more with both parts. They don't want Prince or Maxiell and Summers is a throw in that they certainly wouldn't be required to take. Maxiell is a guy they must take for us to take Okur. Maxiell has like one year left on his deal at 5 mil, Okur has a year left at around 11 mil left or something like that. Prince is an expiring deal. Instead of Harris and Okur on the books for 20+ million next year they'd have Stuckey and Maxiell, both on their last years(Harris' deal goes through '12-'13) for about 9.5-10 million.

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Favors is and has always been a 3 year project. Everyone knew that going into the draft. No way would he be picked higher than Monroe now.

Utah tried to move up and draft Favors.

Devin Harris is a combo guard, but his PG skills are much better than Stuckey.

Harris is a loser, there is a reason Avery Johnson, a former PG, can't stand him. He doesn't make players better, he doesn't try hard and he can't shoot. Those things can be said about Stuckey, but not the middle one and once again, he is younger and much cheaper(can be expiring or at worst kept on RFA tender, Harris has 20+ left on his deal after this year is over).

Favors is a project, but come on, the guy has shown absolutely nothing. Monroe and Cousins were projects too and are about the same age(Monroe one year ahead) and at least they have shown that they can produce something in the NBA. Favors shows no fire when he plays and little beyond athleticism. He may still go higher due to his SICK potential, but Monroe looks like a pretty good bet to be at worst, Vlade Divac or a rich man's Brad Miller. Favors could still be Stromile Swift or he could be an Amare/D12 cross. I can see preferring Favors, but if you think everyone across the NBA does/would, you are simply wrong. If they liked Favors more in Utah, we were cooked, but if not, our offer compares due to the savings and youth included.

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Wow I just disagree with the last part so much I can't even express it. Harris is Stuckey, just older and he costs 6 million more. If Utah is going to rebuild, the key should be getting young and getting rid of salary. Our deal helps them more with both parts. They don't want Prince or Maxiell and Summers is a throw in that they certainly wouldn't be required to take. Maxiell is a guy they must take for us to take Okur. Maxiell has like one year left on his deal at 5 mil, Okur has a year left at around 11 mil left or something like that. Prince is an expiring deal. Instead of Harris and Okur on the books for 20+ million next year they'd have Stuckey and Maxiell, both on their last years(Harris' deal goes through '12-'13) for about 9.5-10 million.

Max has 2 years @ 5M per. So it only saves Utah $1M. Well, his last year is a player option. But nobody is going to pay him $5M so I am guessing he doesn't opt out.

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Max has 2 years @ 5M per. So it only saves Utah $1M. Well, his last year is a player option. But nobody is going to pay him $5M so I am guessing he doesn't opt out.

ESPN has him expiring after next year, I guess I'm not positive. Either way, he takes up 5 mil in cap space for 2 years rather than 10 for one. Taking him is not a deal breaker though. Make it Stuckey,Wilcox,Prince,Monroe and maybe Summers and White(why not take another talented young PG on a non guaranteed deal if you are Utah) as throw ins, plus the picks and cash. Wilcox expires, so that should take away the debate.

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Harris is a loser, there is a reason Avery Johnson, a former PG, can't stand him. He doesn't make players better, he doesn't try hard and he can't shoot. Those things can be said about Stuckey, but not the middle one and once again, he is younger and much cheaper(can be expiring or at worst kept on RFA tender, Harris has 20+ left on his deal after this year is over).

Favors is a project, but come on, the guy has shown absolutely nothing. Monroe and Cousins were projects too and are about the same age(Monroe one year ahead) and at least they have shown that they can produce something in the NBA. Favors shows no fire when he plays and little beyond athleticism. He may still go higher due to his SICK potential, but Monroe looks like a pretty good bet to be at worst, Vlade Divac or a rich man's Brad Miller. Favors could still be Stromile Swift or he could be an Amare/D12 cross. I can see preferring Favors, but if you think everyone across the NBA does/would, you are simply wrong. If they liked Favors more in Utah, we were cooked, but if not, our offer compares due to the savings and youth included.

What are you talking about? Cousins was not a project at all, not even close. The only question about him was his immaturity.

Monroe was not a project either. He was very polished coming out. His big question was motivation and athleticism.

We will disagree on Stuckey Vs Harris, but I bet most would agree Harris is by far the superior player.

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If you were rebuilding, you would rather have Harris than STuckey? Thats the question, not who is better today. Wasn't it you making the point that Stuckey was like 12th in Hollinger PG ratings. Not perfect, but he's right in the same area as Harris while younger and cheaper. So who would you take in Utah's situation, not for a must win game tomorrow?

Monroe and Cousins were and still are projects. Cousin is polished offensively, but his character and defense make him a project. He's productive already, but whether he is a guy who can start on a contender is still WAY up in the air. Monroe is the definition of a project. He is very skilled, but he has to build up NBA strength, establish a position, learn to play defense and find a go to post move or 2 that will allow him to use his best skill, his passing. He has a nice jumper, but thats a work in progress too. Both are more skilled than Favors and that is unlikely to ever change. FAvors will never develop post moves like Cousins or a polished skillset like Monroe, so there is certainly more safety in the latter 2.

Again, I don't mind you or Utah liking Favors more, but do you really believe there is no way any team would prefer Monroe right now? Favors looks like a bust, even projects show something when they play typically. Amare and Dwight, his comparisons, came out of HS and basically dominated. Who has looked as bad as him as a rookie and then became a star????? Maybe Kobe I guess, though the situation was different to me. I think Kobe would have showed that he belonged in the league if he was starting and playing heavy minutes on a team like the NEts as a rookie. Disagree? Honest questions for the record, no snark intended.

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If you were rebuilding, you would rather have Harris than STuckey? Thats the question, not who is better today. Wasn't it you making the point that Stuckey was like 12th in Hollinger PG ratings. Not perfect, but he's right in the same area as Harris while younger and cheaper. So who would you take in Utah's situation, not for a must win game tomorrow?

I would take Harris everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. He is just so much better than Stuckey. Stuckey should come off the bench as a two guard, nothing else. Which is why I will be pissed if the Pistons re-up stuckey.

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If you were rebuilding, you would rather have Harris than STuckey? Thats the question, not who is better today. Wasn't it you making the point that Stuckey was like 12th in Hollinger PG ratings. Not perfect, but he's right in the same area as Harris while younger and cheaper. So who would you take in Utah's situation, not for a must win game tomorrow?

Monroe and Cousins were and still are projects. Cousin is polished offensively, but his character and defense make him a project. He's productive already, but whether he is a guy who can start on a contender is still WAY up in the air. Monroe is the definition of a project. He is very skilled, but he has to build up NBA strength, establish a position, learn to play defense and find a go to post move or 2 that will allow him to use his best skill, his passing. He has a nice jumper, but thats a work in progress too. Both are more skilled than Favors and that is unlikely to ever change. FAvors will never develop post moves like Cousins or a polished skillset like Monroe, so there is certainly more safety in the latter 2.

Again, I don't mind you or Utah liking Favors more, but do you really believe there is no way any team would prefer Monroe right now? Favors looks like a bust, even projects show something when they play typically. Amare and Dwight, his comparisons, came out of HS and basically dominated. Who has looked as bad as him as a rookie and then became a star????? Maybe Kobe I guess, though the situation was different to me. I think Kobe would have showed that he belonged in the league if he was starting and playing heavy minutes on a team like the NEts as a rookie. Disagree? Honest questions for the record, no snark intended.

I take Harris 100 times out of 100.

I find it odd you think Favors is a potential bust, when he is putting up equal or better numbers than Monroe.

He scores more (Although his usg% is higher), rebounds better, blocks more shots. Monroe is the much better passer and gets more steals. Monroe appears to produce better because he plays on a team that has no other person on its roster that can play either position he plays. So he is fed more minutes. Favors can only play 1 position and he is sharing that with Humphries. The Nets always planned on playing Favors 20-25 minutes a night. In fact, he hasn't played 30 minutes once this year. Where Monroe has played 30+ minutes 16 times and 40+ minutes 3 times.

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I would take Harris everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. He is just so much better than Stuckey. Stuckey should come off the bench as a two guard, nothing else. Which is why I will be pissed if the Pistons re-up stuckey.

Hard to be a 2 guard when you shoot 42%. Further, when you shoot 25% from 3 in your career and have never shot 40% from 16-23 feet, including 34% this year. Gross. He's in the bottom 10 shooters in the league for a guard.

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Now you are just downgrading Stuckey. What does he do worse than Harris? Harris has been slightly better in assists over his career(though not necessarily in his first 3 or 4 years, where Stuckey is), they both shoot terrible from 3 and pretty low from the field, they both get to the rim at will, they are both better as combo guards and are both solid fT shooters. Stuckey is a better defender especially since he can guard 2s, his and Harris' natural position both, and is younger and cheaper. i can't see Utah preferring Harris right now, just can't.

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Hard to be a 2 guard when you shoot 42%. Further, when you shoot 25% from 3 in your career and have never shot 40% from 16-23 feet, including 34% this year. Gross. He's in the bottom 10 shooters in the league for a guard.

Oh, I agree, he is ****ing terrible. I see Stuckeys ceiling as coming off the bench, getting to the line a few times, pester someone defensively and then get right back to the bench.

Otherwise what else can he play? He isnt a PG, cant play SF and sucks at shooting. He just doesnt help the team.

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Now you are just downgrading Stuckey. What does he do worse than Harris? Harris has been slightly better in assists over his career(though not necessarily in his first 3 or 4 years, where Stuckey is), they both shoot terrible from 3 and pretty low from the field, they both get to the rim at will, they are both better as combo guards and are both solid fT shooters. Stuckey is a better defender especially since he can guard 2s, his and Harris' natural position both, and is younger and cheaper. i can't see Utah preferring Harris right now, just can't.

A lot of what I base my decision on is how much they are wanted by other teams in the NBA.

Teams are trying to obtain Harris (Portland, Utah obviously, Dallas, etc). While its hard to know, I don't see anyone that interested in Stuckey. I always want an out if things dont work out. And how desirable a player is to other teams has an impact on what I think of them.

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Hard to be a 2 guard when you shoot 42%. Further, when you shoot 25% from 3 in your career and have never shot 40% from 16-23 feet, including 34% this year. Gross. He's in the bottom 10 shooters in the league for a guard.

I'm fine with the argument that Stuckey is a combo guard off the bench, but lets not pretend that he can't play or that he can't help a contender. He isn't a true, starting PG, but he can play 15-20 minutes there if needed as well as teh same at SG. The biggest issue is that all these arguments are true of HArris too, except he's older and more expensive by a ton.

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A lot of what I base my decision on is how much they are wanted by other teams in the NBA.

Teams are trying to obtain Harris (Portland, Utah obviously, Dallas, etc). While its hard to know, I don't see anyone that interested in Stuckey. I always want an out if things dont work out. And how desirable a player is to other teams has an impact on what I think of them.

They are offering expiring contracts for Harris(outside Utah of course, who obviously is in a position to need a guy like Harris, or Stuckey), which we aren't giving up Stuckey for. Not a fair example by any means and you are well aware of this. You know you can't get equal value for contracgts like Mcgrady and Stuckey.

As far as Monroe/Favors, Favors has sick athelticism, he is geting some boards and blocks with that ability. The problem is, he has poor effort, shows no understanding of defense(Monroe has been so much better than I expected here, I love how he gets out to challenge shooters and drivers) and no offensive game whatsoever. Monroe has gotten better every month IMO and has kind of turned the corner, showing that he can be a productive starting big in this league, putting up quite a few double doubles and showing the skill offensively to be at least a 15 ppg guy. Favors hasn't shown that, though he may. Higher ceiling, much lower floor. That's all I'm saying. If you prefer Favors, fine, but there is an argument here.

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I'm fine with the argument that Stuckey is a combo guard off the bench, but lets not pretend that he can't play or that he can't help a contender. He isn't a true, starting PG, but he can play 15-20 minutes there if needed as well as teh same at SG. The biggest issue is that all these arguments are true of HArris too, except he's older and more expensive by a ton.

I'm not saying that Stuckey couldn't help a contender. He'd actually be quite an effective 6th man. I just detest that we're trying to use him as a building block of this franchise.

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I'm not saying that Stuckey couldn't help a contender. He'd actually be quite an effective 6th man. I just detest that we're trying to use him as a building block of this franchise.

Well, I think they are past that. I think they thought he would show a lot more improvement as a shooter and passer, which he hasn't, so he can't be a starting PG. I think we generall agree on him anyways

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I am jealous of these teams adding star players in the Eastern Conference. I wish the Pistons could be good so we could better enjoy what is going to be an awesome playoffs.

We need a miracle in the form of Kyrie Irving.

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A lot of what I base my decision on is how much they are wanted by other teams in the NBA.

Teams are trying to obtain Harris (Portland, Utah obviously, Dallas, etc). While its hard to know, I don't see anyone that interested in Stuckey. I always want an out if things dont work out. And how desirable a player is to other teams has an impact on what I think of them.

Their stats are very similar, a few more apg for Harris, but he's 3 years older and makes about 2.5x/yr as Stuckey. I think the salary differential is clearly enough to make Stuckey the more valuable player considering just how similar their production has been.

Harris: 8.98m this year, 9.3, 8.5

Stuckey: 2.76m this year, 3.8m

Also, your argument, instead of thinking Harris should be favored because of trade interest, we might think Harris is only available because multiple teams have considered him unworthy of his cap figure and have freely shopped him.

Edited by sinister porpoise

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Their stats are very similar, a few more apg for Harris, but he's 3 years older and makes about 2.5x/yr as Stuckey. I think the salary differential is clearly enough to make Stuckey the more valuable player considering just how similar their production has been.

Harris: 8.98m this year, 9.3, 8.5

Stuckey: 2.76m this year, 3.8m

The stats are not similar. Harris has an assist rate of 42% compared to 25% for Stuckey.

9 players in the league have 1400 minutes played and over 40% assist rate. Nash, Paul, Rose, Williams, Westbrook, Rondo, Harris, and Calderon.

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A few more assists per game does not justify Harris' 3x salary.

Its nearly double his rate. Like DrWho said a few days ago, numbers of assists mean nothing because of pace.

I know you are the biggest Stuckey slappy on this board, but come on man. This is bad even for you.

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