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downinthezone

Beltre, Tigers 2011 3B? the possibility is there

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I never understood why they went the Peralta/Inge route instead of throwing all that cash at Beltre and letting Santiago play short. Defensively they would have been great and offensively would have had a big bat to smother around Cabrera.

While I agree, there clearly was risk of pursuing Beltre and not landing him, costing us Inge/Peralta in the process. And if the Beltre pursuit lasted well into the winter (as is the case thus far), that leaves very little in the way of all back options.

Makes you wonder though, if we did sign Beltre, if the Angels would then be interested in Inge. There really isn't much else available out there, and they can't afford to march Brandon Wood out there. I've never seen a player look so lost at the plate, as Wood was last year. And Callaspo wasn't much better.

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Inge in particular should've been told to go out and see what kind of offers he gets and then the Tigers could've easily matched or matched+ and Inge would've likely taken the Tigers offer vs whatever other team.

From a business perspective, the only reason I can think of for signing Inge/Peralta early like that and not letting them test the free agent market is that by signing them before the free agency period began means they can be traded right away. Rather than having to wait til May or whenever players signed during free agency become eligible to be traded.

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While I agree, there clearly was risk of pursuing Beltre and not landing him, costing us Inge/Peralta in the process. And if the Beltre pursuit lasted well into the winter (as is the case thus far), that leaves very little in the way of all back options.

That's a good argument for signing Peralta (who is a better 3B than shortstop) but not Inge. With Peralta under contract but not Inge, the Tigers would've been free to shop for a 3B or shortstop or even bid more seriously on Uggla and maybe shift him to 3B or many other possibilities.

But I don't think they should've signed Inge or Peralta at the end of the day anyhow.

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When was that? I don't recall the Tigers even bidding on Beltre last off-season. And the last time before that that Beltre was on the market would've been after the 2004 season. A lot of players would be willing to come to Cabrera era Detroit today vs Nook Logan era Tigers back then.

Edited by downinthezone

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It's not gonna happen. DD and The Smoker love Inge at third.

Secondly, and more importantly, if the angels are throwing 5/~70 at him, why would he want to come here on a one year or two year offer? His offensive numbers would drop, at best, and he'd be another year older. Both of those reasons scream offer him a huge contract next year...

Lastly, contrary to what we fans think, position changes mid career are not just pencil him in and he'll be fine. As a matter of fact, excluding Rose, name a few players who have shifted from 3B to 2B, or 3B to SS, or something other than the standard shift to first when a third bagger becomes too old, that were successful after the change?

Edited by LJK004

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With 5 years and 70 million on the table, anybody that thinks Beltre will back off that and sign a big one-year deal instead, I'm sorry if this sounds critical, but you must be smoking about half a bale to be able to even entertain such possibilities. In other words a typical DaYooper post, lol.

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With 5 years and 70 million on the table, anybody that thinks Beltre will back off that and sign a big one-year deal instead, I'm sorry if this sounds critical, but you must be smoking about half a bale to be able to even entertain such possibilities. In other words a typical DaYooper post, lol.

Not to mention we already signed our third baseman. If we sign anyone else it will be to fill a position in need....such as LF or SP.

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images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGdgpuW0cDOt_fwCwDHWcoaVbcjA21VJ6JpKxTo3imgOc3JcHd

I guess I don't understand what you're saying here. I'm dumb for stating the obvious? Please clarify your use of this unfunny meme for the rest of the class.

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I guess I don't understand what you're saying here. I'm dumb for stating the obvious? Please clarify your use of this unfunny meme for the rest of the class.

"so your sayin there's a chance"

anytime someone says something about chance thats the first thing that comes to mind.

I'm assuming thats what he's referring to

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It's not gonna happen. DD and The Smoker love Inge at third.

Secondly, and more importantly, if the angels are throwing 5/~70 at him, why would he want to come here on a one year or two year offer? His offensive numbers would drop, at best, and he'd be another year older. Both of those reasons scream offer him a huge contract next year...

Lastly, contrary to what we fans think, position changes mid career are not just pencil him in and he'll be fine. As a matter of fact, excluding Rose, name a few players who have shifted from 3B to 2B, or 3B to SS, or something other than the standard shift to first when a third bagger becomes too old, that were successful after the change?

Robin Yount shifted from Short to Center after being in the league for almost ten years. Molitor was initially a middle infielder for the Crew before shifting to third.

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Maybe the guy just doesn't want to play in the AL West.

Or maybe he wants to play for a team with a better lineup, similar to his situation in Boston.

Or maybe Boras is going to offer him up to teams like the Tigers and White Sox and whomever else on a 1 year + option deal and then have Beltre hit the mkt again next off-season when there will be more teams|higher payroll teams (Cubs/Braves/Jays/etc) in the market for a third-bagger.

Could be just a negotiating tactic by Boras, haven't scene any confirmation of this on MLBTR, half-expecting that they'll post that Beltre has signed with the Halos.

Beltre apparently really wanted to stay with the Red Sox. Maybe he thinks they'll bring him back after Ortiz is off the books next off-season and they can shift Agon/Youk into some sort of 1B/DH platoon situation and bring back Beltre to play 3B. If that's the case, then he might not care so much about how much he makes in 2011, just that he's on a team with a decent lineup.

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With Cabrera ranging over to steal grounders hit directly at the Tigers various second basemen, they maybe don't even need one.

May be what cost Galarraga his perfect game as much as Jim Joyce.

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May be what cost Galarraga his perfect game as much as Jim Joyce.

I can't agree with this line of thinking at all. Cabby made the play, the out was there and they got him by a step. Nothing in the world wrong with the play except that Joyce went blind. Joyce could just as easily gone into brain freeze on a throw from second.

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I don't disagree with the basic premise of what you are saying Gehringer, but I don't think a play from second base is nearly as close as the play Cabrera had to make. Having watched it a dozen times and having tried to teach young first basemen when to let a ball go to their right, and head for the bag, that was a ball Cabrera should have let go, and the play wouldn't have been all that close.

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I can't agree with this line of thinking at all. Cabby made the play, the out was there and they got him by a step. Nothing in the world wrong with the play except that Joyce went blind. Joyce could just as easily gone into brain freeze on a throw from second.

I agree completely that Cabrera made the play and they got him out, and probably 99% of the time the ump gets the call right on plays like that. I've just always wondered how it would've gone down if Guillen had made the play. It just looked to me like it might have been a little easier play that way, but who knows? Maybe Guillen boots it or throws wild.

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I agree completely that Cabrera made the play and they got him out, and probably 99% of the time the ump gets the call right on plays like that. I've just always wondered how it would've gone down if Guillen had made the play. It just looked to me like it might have been a little easier play that way, but who knows? Maybe Guillen boots it or throws wild.

Sure, it could have turned out different for any number of reasons. I'm just sort of on guard against the implication that some have drawn that somehow it was Cabby's fault for having made a perfectly good play.

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I don't disagree with the basic premise of what you are saying Gehringer, but I don't think a play from second base is nearly as close as the play Cabrera had to make. Having watched it a dozen times and having tried to teach young first basemen when to let a ball go to their right, and head for the bag, that was a ball Cabrera should have let go, and the play wouldn't have been all that close.

The play was not that close as it was. And I teach young fielders to make any play they can make.

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I don't understand why Inge can't play second. The guy is mobile, quick on his feet and gets good position on the baseball when fielding; isn't that what you want out of a second basemen?

Kind of a waste of a great throwing arm. He could play the spot though. If the guy could hit consistently, we'd not be having this conversation.

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The differences between Cabrera covering 1B and letting Guillen make that play and the way it went down

(i) Cabrera is moving right to field and has to throw back to his left, whereas if you watch the various replays (from official footage and from fans) Carlos is taking a perfect line to make the play and then make the throw to 1B/Cabrera in stride.

(ii) Cabrera has to wait a few beats for Galaragga to make it to the bag at 1B from the mound before he can make the throw, whereas if Carlos makes the play Cabrera's camped out at 1B waiting for the throw.

Umpires also mentioned that because Cabrera cuts the ball off perpendicular to the bag and is throwing to the pitcher coming from the mound vs Carlos making the play a few steps further back and throwing to a stretched Cabrera, the spot where the ump sets up to view the catch and runner simultaneously in the normal 4-3 put out has an obscured view when that 4-3 becomes a 3-1. [not an excuse for anything]

It's an issue with Cabrera's defense that the play highlighted and then happened again and again throughout the season. Other than that play, the Tigers 2010 campaign was meaningless, so it didn't matter. But who knows when the Tigers end up in another meaningful game 161-163 and Cabrera goes to field an otherwise routine grounder to the 2B and the pitcher doesn't get over in time--hopefully Tiger pitchers are aware of Cabrera's tendencies and always break for the 1B bag on balls hit to the right side, but you could see a reliever or any pitcher either staying put at the mound or breaking behind the bag to back up the throw to 1B, when they need to book it to the bag as fast as they can.

If you're defeating the expectations of the umpiring crew, you might also be working against the expectations of your teammates as to how that kind of routine groundball to 2B is going to be handled.

Edited by downinthezone

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I don't disagree with the basic premise of what you are saying Gehringer, but I don't think a play from second base is nearly as close as the play Cabrera had to make. Having watched it a dozen times and having tried to teach young first basemen when to let a ball go to their right, and head for the bag, that was a ball Cabrera should have let go, and the play wouldn't have been all that close.

No question when a 1b needs to give up a play is a subtle business. I think another consideration that does not get enough attention is that we had no regular 2b all year and Cabby is clearly a player that is going to try and take responsibility when he feels he has to - you saw that aspect of his playing personality in how resistant he had been to taking walks with men on base prior to this season when he finally began resigning himself to it. I don't want to criticize a player for that. My guess is he may have been more likely to let that ball go in 2009 with Polanco behind him.

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