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DetroitFolly

This bothers me...

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As if anyone needed further confirmation that we're dealing with a propaganda outlet, and not a news organization.

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what's wrong with that, Oblong? The medical term is "intact dilation and extraction." Partial birth abortion is a nickname for the procedure. Thus, "so-called."

Also, it deflects from the story I posted.

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So is the objection that a year ago Fox decided to use "government run health care" rather than "public option"? The Fox terminology is easier to understand for many.

So the message is only now released so we have someone to point the finger at? No one noticed for over a year Fox was doing this?

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So is the objection that a year ago Fox decided to use "government run health care" rather than "public option"? The Fox terminology is easier to understand for many.

So the message is only now released so we have someone to point the finger at? No one noticed for over a year Fox was doing this?

"If you call it a 'public option,' the American people are split," Luntz said in the conversation, which Media Matters cited in releasing the e-mails. "If you call it the 'government option,' the public is overwhelmingly against it."

Read more: Fox News: Avoid 'public option' in health care debate - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

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"If you call it a 'public option,' the American people are split," Luntz said in the conversation, which Media Matters cited in releasing the e-mails. "If you call it the 'government option,' the public is overwhelmingly against it."

Read more: Fox News: Avoid 'public option' in health care debate - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

I don't understand how citing a quote from the article I just read or reposting the link answers anything. If I was at a ball game and asked those around me, few could describe "public option".

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So is the objection that a year ago Fox decided to use "government run health care" rather than "public option"? The Fox terminology is easier to understand for many.

So the message is only now released so we have someone to point the finger at? No one noticed for over a year Fox was doing this?

but its not government run health care - its government run health care insurance, which imo is a completely different thing

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but its not government run health care - its government run health care insurance, which imo is a completely different thing
Calling the program the descriptive term leaves no doubt about what it is. But "government run" are evil terms so we must call it something "nice". Do I have it now? Sounds like this was taken from a George Carlin routine.

Edit: I happen to be for the government run system.

Edited by hueytaxi

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In the Daily Beast article

How Fox News Spun the Health-Care Debate - The Daily Beast

Sammon acknowledged that the phrase "public option" was “firmly ensconced in the nation’s lexicon,” so when it was necessary to use it, he wrote, add the qualifier “so-called,” as in “the so-called public option.” And “here’s another way to phrase it: ‘The public option, which is the government-run plan.’”

"Public option" was already "firmly ensconced in the nation's lexicon" according to the former Washington Times reporter, current Fox News editor. But

Sammon said in an interview that the term "public option" “is a vague, bland, undescriptive phrase,” and that after all, “who would be against a public park?”

so they called it something else which is much less precise than "public option" (which refers government health insurance competing alongside private health insurance, as opposed to just referring to a government plan without reference to competition) but more conducive to conservative ideological goals

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what's wrong with that, Oblong? The medical term is "intact dilation and extraction." Partial birth abortion is a nickname for the procedure. Thus, "so-called."

Also, it deflects from the story I posted.

Isn't "public option" a nickname?

The reason media outlets stopped "partial birth abortion" is because it was too negative. I see this as pretty much the same thing.

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I just read somewhere that this one website referred to "it" as:

...a government-run health insurance plan

Why couldn't they just say Public Option? Seems deceptive to me, that's for sure.

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Also, this:

Twenty minutes after Sammon sent his note, Michael Clemente, the network's senior vice president for news, said that "No. 3 on your list is the preferred way to say it, write it, use it.” He appears to be referring to "the public option, which is the government-run plan."

So the senior VP of the station immediately says that the preferred way to say "public option" and then further explain what the public option is. How is that:

a.) telling them not to use "public option" (which the original story alleges)

b.) much less precise than "public option" (which has been alleged by posters here)

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Isn't "public option" a nickname?

The reason media outlets stopped "partial birth abortion" is because it was too negative. I see this as pretty much the same thing.

Its a descriptive nickname - unlike government run health care - which is a lying mis-characterization. There are many other possible terms - the main issue is the lying part to many of the people who are upset by this.

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Also, this:

So the senior VP of the station immediately says that the preferred way to say "public option" and then further explain what the public option is. How is that:

a.) telling them not to use "public option" (which the original story alleges)

b.) much less precise than "public option" (which has been alleged by posters here)

People complain that editor A says something, and your response is that VP B said something else. People say that what editor A wanted is less precise, and your response is to ask how what VP B said is less precise. See?

edit: What I mean is, I don't know that anyone said either of those things about what you quoted.

Edited by sinister porpoise

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This is silly. I have BCBS coverage so I refer to my provider as Blue Cross Blue Shield. I don't add insurance company. So if I select the public option which is an insurance program run by the US government, I am lying to call it government health care? We are argueing political semantics not health care or Fox.

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People complain that editor A says something, and your response is that VP B said something else. People say that what editor A wanted is less precise, and your response is to ask how what VP B said is less precise. See?

What I see is that one person in Fox said something and that therefore this proves that that Fox is evil and a propaganda machine. However, they fail to point out that a higher up than the original person indicated that the preferred was to refer to the so-called public option is to say... (dramatic pause) "the public option" and then to qualify what the public option means.

If Fox is truly the propaganda machine then we wouldn't have this higher up saying to us the term "public option," would we?

Now, you're trying to say that what person A said to say was deliberately less precise than "public option." Here are the four "choice" person A said to use:

  1. "government-run health insurance" -- That seems to be a pretty accurate term, doesn't it?
  2. "government option" -- Definitely more vague... but not substantially in my opinion. If "public option" is such a well known and understood term, "government option," especially when talking health care would be pretty interchangeable in the minds of most people with "public option" in my opinion.
  3. "the public option, which is the government-run plan" -- This uses the very term that everyone supposedly understands well... just qualifies it a bit more for those who may not know. I don't see it as less precise at all.
  4. "the so-called public option" -- by far the worst... not because it's less precise, but because it shades the consumer. "So-called" carry a lot of negative baggage with it.

So, one out of four options is slightly less precise than the original term.

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BTW, here's a few other propaganda outlets that some of you liberals may want to avoid:

A new government insurance program, the so-called public option, was proposed by President Obama in the spring of 2009...

The New York Times

Democratic Senate negotiators struck a tentative agreement Tuesday night to drop the controversial government-run insurance plan from their overhaul of the health-care system...

The Washington Post

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but its not government run health care - its government run health care insurance, which imo is a completely different thing

Interestingly enough, this is EXACTLY what Mr. Sammon first recommended!

Here the Washington Post gives the full email:

From: Sammon, Bill

Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:23 AM

To: 054 -FNSunday; 169 -SPECIAL REPORT; 069 -Politics; 030 -Root (FoxNews.Com); 036 -FOX.WHU; 050 -Senior Producers; 051 -Producers

Subject: friendly reminder: let's not slip back into calling it the "public option"

1) Please use the term "government-run health insurance" or, when brevity is a concern, "government option," whenever possible.

2) When it is necessary to use the term "public option" (which is, after all, firmly ensconced in the nation's lexicon), use the qualifier "so-called," as in "the so-called public option."

3) Here's another way to phrase it: "The public option, which is the government-run plan."

4) When newsmakers and sources use the term "public option" in our stories, there's not a lot we can do about it, since quotes are of course sacrosanct.

And now I've already spent way to much time on this. Off to do more productive things with my night.

(BTW, do check out the link I posted above. The author guess at what options 5-10 on how to refer to the public option might have been. Some are pretty amusing!)

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This is silly. I have BCBS coverage so I refer to my provider as Blue Cross Blue Shield. I don't add insurance company. So if I select the public option which is an insurance program run by the US government, I am lying to call it government health care? We are argueing political semantics not health care or Fox.

i really don't think we are but i appreciate your view

you know a government run health insurance program isn't the same as a government run medicine

but do you really think most people appreciate the difference and the different language hasn't been used specifically to confuse and scare them - at least by some of the people using that language?

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BTW, here's a few other propaganda outlets that some of you liberals may want to avoid:

The New York Times

The Washington Post

the run up to the iraq war put the lie to the notion that the nyt was just a liberal mouthpiece - so no surprise here - and there are plenty of examples for the post as well

i haven't heard much of anybody on the left say either of those were 'our' gold standards or that the only reason fox is 'bad' is because of this naming issue

edit: ok, i'm missing something, i read the quotes more closely and they seem to be clearly what liberals tend to say the correct language is - why do you think liberals should run from this?

Edited by billms

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Calling the program the descriptive term leaves no doubt about what it is. But "government run" are evil terms so we must call it something "nice". Do I have it now? Sounds like this was taken from a George Carlin routine.

Edit: I happen to be for the government run system.

Sorry, my concern wasn't in the gov run part, it was that you didn't call it insurance. That said, RR is right, Sammon did use the term insurance so its really a moot issue

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I'd love to see what the people who are defending Fox were saying when NBC decided to call label the Iraq War as a civil war.

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