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Landing Crawford is a dream, but getting Werth is more realistic

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I think Guillen will play 2B until he gets injured again. He's much better offensively than any other options we have there. The only question is whether he will last until the end of April or the end of July.

Is he really? His OPS over the last two seasons in .752. I think Sizemore would hit better than that given the job next year, Rhymes already hit better than that in 2010, and both are way better defensively than Guillen is. And this was before he had knee surgery.

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I think Guillen will play 2B until he gets injured again. He's much better offensively than any other options we have there. The only question is whether he will last until the end of April or the end of July.

Well, unless something has changed, Guillen is not likely to be ready to play at the beginning of the season. I've heard mid-year as a potential return timeframe, but there's real concern that his career may be over. I'm not penciling him in for anything in 2011.

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I don't see Werth as either more likely or desirable than Crawford. I think it's going to take a monster contract to land either one of them. If Illitch decides to allow something like that, I think it would be for Crawford.

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A friend of mine just told me that Crawford is visiting with the Cubs and they are pitching a deal to him, they havent been talked about at all.

Im also being told that Crawford will not sign until after Lee is off the market. So I am thinking the Tigers are probably still players for Crawford.

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I don't think Crawford or Werth sign until after Cliff Lee. If NYY miss out on Lee, they are expected to make a hard push for Crawford.

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Is he really? His OPS over the last two seasons in .752. I think Sizemore would hit better than that given the job next year, Rhymes already hit better than that in 2010, and both are way better defensively than Guillen is. And this was before he had knee surgery.

I've been hearing that Guillen will be ready at or near the beginning of the season.

Also 1) It's a stretch to think that Sizemore is a decent bet to put up a .752 OPS at this point, 2) is Sizemore really better than Guillen at defense? I'm not so sure, and 3) If you think Rhymes is more likely than not to even have an OPS above .700 next season...I'll take that bet as well.

If we have to rely on Rhymes/Sizemore at second, I'd expect a cumulative OPS of about .675 out of the position at most. .750 is about league-average OPS, and if we can get that out of a position like 2B, I'd take it.

Edited by TheCouga

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By the time the GM meetings have been concluded...

DD will have Carl Crawford signed to a Tigers contract and Jacon Turner + others traded for Zach Greinke.

Book it.

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I wouldn't trade Turner for Greinke straight up. Greinke's going to be a free agent in two years. Turner's still got six years on him. The real value in Turner is that he'll allow us to keep/resign another pitcher like Greinke down the road. In other words, Turner is as good as two good pitchers when you take into account payroll.

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By the time the GM meetings have been concluded...

DD will have Carl Crawford signed to a Tigers contract and Jacon Turner + others traded for Zach Greinke.

Book it.

Think I'd have to change my shorts. :happy:

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By the time the GM meetings have been concluded...

DD will have Carl Crawford signed to a Tigers contract and Jacon Turner + others traded for Zach Greinke.

Book it.

Is this a hunch or are you good friends with DD?

If this is the case, I better call the box office asap and get my playoff tickets for next season.

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Kevin Rand's wild guess on Guillen (back in September) was mid-March (out six months), but in Guillen's case that seems very optimistic.

In Kevin Rand speak that means we're looking at around June.

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I don't get all the pessimism for Ordonez. A few points:

1. He looked much better in RF last year - and better conditioned. He did have financial incentive to, of course.

2. Broken ankles heal, even at age 37.

3. The first half of 2009 is a clear outlier in the Ordonez hitting trend, and I do think his wife's health problems affected him.

4. He's not my first choice, but he's still fairly high on my list.

Covering his last 512 at bats he's hitting .330 and slugging .500.

He's not a bum.

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I think a commonly overlooked thing about Ordonez is that all of his injuries have been freak accidents, rather than they type that come from an old, broken-down body. His history shows that he's not exactly injury-prone. Also, I don't get why people think he can't play the field. I have a better feeling about his health than that of Werth, actually. Outside of freak injuries, Ordonez has pretty much an impeccable record of consistently playing in over 150 games every season. And hitting over .300. And being only slightly below average on defense.

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I've been hearing that Guillen will be ready at or near the beginning of the season.

Also 1) It's a stretch to think that Sizemore is a decent bet to put up a .752 OPS at this point, 2) is Sizemore really better than Guillen at defense? I'm not so sure, and 3) If you think Rhymes is more likely than not to even have an OPS above .700 next season...I'll take that bet as well.

If we have to rely on Rhymes/Sizemore at second, I'd expect a cumulative OPS of about .675 out of the position at most. .750 is about league-average OPS, and if we can get that out of a position like 2B, I'd take it.

I'm not talking about being ready, I'm talking about whether he'll decline. There have been so many athletes have their careers pretty much destroyed by microfracture surgery, and he's having it in his 30s. Guillen already couldn't field for crap, and he's a mediocre hitter. Best case scenario he is still a horrible fielder and a mediocre hitter. At least with Rhymes I know I'm getting defense, and I'm not giving up on Sizemore as a hitter based on his bad 2 months last season. Dude has a lot of upside that isn't worth giving up on just so we can watch Guillen be a 1.5 win player.

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I'd take Crawford and Magglio. I hope Magglio gets brought back even if we sign another corner OF. Raburn plays in RF when Martinez catches and Magglio is the DH. If Magglio's age does catch up with him, Raburn is still a viable option. To me I'd rather have too much depth than place Raburn in a starting position and have a weak bench.

I want Crawford, Maggs AND Cliff Lee. :classic:

Seriously, if I had a choice, I would go for Lee and a high end reliever over Crawford. The Tigers will score plenty of runs next year IF everyone stays healthy. Defense may be a bit of a problem, but we still need a SP and some relief help. Just my 2¢ worth.

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This is really exciting! I REALLY like the idea of Crawford. Bat him second and wouldn't he and Jackson be fun to watch at the top of the lineup? WOW! The outfield defense would be awesome. Left and centerfield are huge at Comerica and those 2 guys will cover at lot of ground. Magglio in RF would be my preference or platoon Raburn/Boesch/Wells.

Lineup would be something like this...

CF Jackson

LF Crawford

RF Ordonez

1B Cabrera

C Martinez

DH Raburn/Boesch/Wells

SS Peralta

3B Inge

2B Rhymes/Sizemore

Nothing really new here. I just wanted to be a part of the excitement!

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I think a commonly overlooked thing about Ordonez is that all of his injuries have been freak accidents, rather than they type that come from an old, broken-down body. .

His broken ankle was not a freak accident. It was bothering him for a long time before he broke it sliding into home. As a 37-year-old outfielder, I think he'll be at high risk for injury next year too. Not as high as Guillen but still high.

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Couga, are you turning into a Republican? You're making a lot of sense here. :classic:

I always make sense. It might not always seem that way through the spectacles of conservative bias, but I always make sense. :wink:

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His broken ankle was not a freak accident. It was bothering him for a long time before he broke it sliding into home. As a 37-year-old outfielder, I think he'll be at high risk for injury next year too. Not as high as Guillen but still high.

As high as Werth? Werth has played over 140 games in a season exactly twice in his career. And he's gonna be 32.

Are the chances of re-breaking an ankle the same thing as having ligament damage in your elbow or knee? I'm not a medical expert, but I'd feel more comfortable regarding someone healing from a broken bone rather than surgery of high-stress muscle tissue.

Ordonez isn't a foolproof option, as you have noted, but I'd still bet on even odds that he plays more games than Werth over the next two years.

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I don't see Werth as either more likely or desirable than Crawford. I think it's going to take a monster contract to land either one of them. If Illitch decides to allow something like that, I think it would be for Crawford.

This is how I feel. Werth is a luxury IMO. A gamble. He could be a little cheaper than Crawford, he coudl even be a little better if everything goes right. However, Crawford, IMO, is a much better fit and a FAR safer bet. He has a body type that suggest he will age very well(think Jeter,Cameron,Torrie Hunter etc.) and he is a perfect fit for multiple needs that we have. Great defender in our spacious OF, more speed in the lineup, can hit 2 or 3(ideally 3 in this lineup unless Miggy is 3rd) and also is quite solid in the power and average departments. Not a HR guy really, but a guy who's bat plays VERY well in the 3 spot for the net 5 years or so. Good luck pitching to Miguel Cabrera with Crawford and Martinez surrounding him.

I can't see us trading for a LF really. If we don't sign a big name, Boras will surely keep Maggs here. I can't see us digging much deeper than that unless it's Upton/Choo.

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This is really exciting! I REALLY like the idea of Crawford. Bat him second and wouldn't he and Jackson be fun to watch at the top of the lineup? WOW! The outfield defense would be awesome. Left and centerfield are huge at Comerica and those 2 guys will cover at lot of ground. Magglio in RF would be my preference or platoon Raburn/Boesch/Wells.

Lineup would be something like this...

CF Jackson

LF Crawford

RF Ordonez

1B Cabrera

C Martinez

DH Raburn/Boesch/Wells

SS Peralta

3B Inge

2B Rhymes/Sizemore

Nothing really new here. I just wanted to be a part of the excitement!

doubt we gett Maggs and Crawford. I see

Jackson - CF

Inge or Sizemore - 3B or 2B

Crawford - LF

Cabrera - 1B

Martinez - DH

Raburn - RF

Peralta - SS

Avila - C

Sizemore or Inge - 2B or 3B

I think Inge would be best used as a 2 hitter. It protects him a bit and plays to some of his strenghts. Taking a lot of pitches, running the bases(solid in this regard is all I'm saying) and occasionally providing some pop to drive in Jackson.

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