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Tigers sign Joaquin Benoit

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I think people need to look around. $5.5 mil is the going rate for an above-average relief pitcher, which is what Benoit is even if he regresses back to his career norms.

Well, that's not true. In fact, he's getting paid more than Brandon Lyon, and I consider Lyon a more reliable and better RP. Lyons deal was generally considered the worst, or one of the worst, of the last offseason.

And it's close to Rodney's deal, although a year longer, and Rodney got some benefit because of his history as a closer.

Linebrinks deal was a headscratcher, and still an outlier and not a good contract...

In fact, I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a lot of above average middle relievers that were paid $5.5MM/year, and even more so those that worked out well.

Mabye Benoit will be the exception here, I don't know, but it's a lot of money to give to a middle reliever or set-up guy. Particularly one with an up and down track record, and a guy who will be 33-35 years old during the contract.

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I think this is a good signing. Is it overpaying.....of course. Is it likely to turn out bad for the Tigers.....probably 50/50. But the Tigers have had a woefully inadequate bullpen for years. And they almost never have relievers who toss out sub 1.00 WHIPs. So their low ERA relievers usually get there because of luck.

I don't know what a 0.68 WHIP predicts....but I would say a 1.34 ERA is probably close statistically. Now we just have to hope he can toss out a 2011 WHIP of less than 1.10.....which should give an ERA of less than 3.00.

This signing shows me that DD may be finally learning from his mistakes (inadequate bullpen). I for one would be okay with only signing Magglio and either Thome or Manny Ramirez as long as we get another reliever.

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Well, that's not true. In fact, he's getting paid more than Brandon Lyon, and I consider Lyon a more reliable and better RP. Lyons deal was generally considered the worst, or one of the worst, of the last offseason.

And it's close to Rodney's deal, although a year longer, and Rodney got some benefit because of his history as a closer.

Linebrinks deal was a headscratcher, and still an outlier and not a good contract...

In fact, I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a lot of above average middle relievers that were paid $5.5MM/year, and even more so those that worked out well.

Mabye Benoit will be the exception here, I don't know, but it's a lot of money to give to a middle reliever or set-up guy. Particularly one with an up and down track record, and a guy who will be 33-35 years old during the contract.

Well, Benoit could cut his K/BB in half from last year, and he'd still be better than all but one of the years in Lyon's career.

I agree it's a gamble whether it was a fluke year last season or not, but if Benoit is anything close to his performance last season he's much more than an above average reliever, and will be worth the money.

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Well, that's not true. In fact, he's getting paid more than Brandon Lyon, and I consider Lyon a more reliable and better RP. Lyons deal was generally considered the worst, or one of the worst, of the last offseason.

Lyons may be more reliable than Benoit. But Benoit is better than Lyons. I'm not sure how to value reliability over performance. I think I would rather value performance.

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Take a deep breath, take a step back ... and think ... what did I do wrong?

Thomas was extremely effective the last 3 months of the season after a rocky start. Remember, we are talking long relief here. He's a guy you can throw in for a few innings a few times a week when your starter gets hit hard. With all our righties, a left handed long reliever is ideal IMO. I certainly will not back off the statement that he is a solid long reliever. Would be terrible as a starter or at the back end of the pen if that's what you mean.

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Maybe Turner lands in Detroit by mid-season ..... You never know.

they do like to rush their youngsters

Benoits is worth the gamble IMO. his top end stuff is pure dominating.

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Thomas was extremely effective the last 3 months of the season after a rocky start. Remember, we are talking long relief here. He's a guy you can throw in for a few innings a few times a week when your starter gets hit hard. With all our righties, a left handed long reliever is ideal IMO. I certainly will not back off the statement that he is a solid long reliever. Would be terrible as a starter or at the back end of the pen if that's what you mean.

You forced me to look up Thomas' stats month-by-month....

He did look halfway decent in August and September.

But I think that if Thomas pitches much for the Tigers in 2011.....it is a bad sign.

Brad Thomas - Detroit Tigers - Split Statistics - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

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Well, Benoit could cut his K/BB in half from last year, and he'd still be better than all but one of the years in Lyon's career.

I agree it's a gamble whether it was a fluke year last season or not, but if Benoit is anything close to his performance last season he's much more than an above average reliever, and will be worth the money.

When we start counting K/BB in the runs column, then I'll be concerned with Benoit's superior rate over Lyon. The fact is that Lyon has a superior track record (even with inferior K rates) and has been a better reliever in all but ONE major league season. I do not deny that Benoit was dominate last season, but Lyon has been the better pitcher for a long time.

I'm not trying to make this into a Lyon vs Benoit debate. But it's clear to me that $5.5MM is not the going rate for above average relievers. I wouldn't have paid Lyon that much, and he is in my opinion a better bet to perform well over a three year period. And Lyon's deal was generally considered a terrible deal by most, including most fans here on MTS.

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You forced me to look up Thomas' stats month-by-month....

He did look halfway decent in August and September.

But I think that if Thomas pitches much for the Tigers in 2011.....it is a bad sign.

Brad Thomas - Detroit Tigers - Split Statistics - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

No long reliever is anything special. Every team needs a guy like a Miner,Bonine,Thomas,Durbin etc. etc.

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When we start counting K/BB in the runs column, then I'll be concerned with Benoit's superior rate over Lyon. The fact is that Lyon has a superior track record (even with inferior K rates) and has been a better reliever in all but ONE major league season. I do not deny that Benoit was dominate last season, but Lyon has been the better pitcher for a long time.

I'm not trying to make this into a Lyon vs Benoit debate. But it's clear to me that $5.5MM is not the going rate for above average relievers. I wouldn't have paid Lyon that much, and he is in my opinion a better bet to perform well over a three year period. And Lyon's deal was generally considered a terrible deal by most, including most fans here on MTS.

Benoit at his best is a quality closer if needed. Not so for Lyon IMO. He's mroe of a Jon Rausch type closer at his best.

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When we start counting K/BB in the runs column, then I'll be concerned with Benoit's superior rate over Lyon. The fact is that Lyon has a superior track record (even with inferior K rates) and has been a better reliever in all but ONE major league season. I do not deny that Benoit was dominate last season, but Lyon has been the better pitcher for a long time.

I'm not trying to make this into a Lyon vs Benoit debate. But it's clear to me that $5.5MM is not the going rate for above average relievers. I wouldn't have paid Lyon that much, and he is in my opinion a better bet to perform well over a three year period. And Lyon's deal was generally considered a terrible deal by most, including most fans here on MTS.

Ballmich....Benoit was better in 2005 and 2007 in addition to 2010. But if what you are looking for is Benoit to be more consistently great....then he would cost us Mariano Rivera money at $15 million per year. Or Francisco Cordero money at $11 million per year. Kerry Wood at $10 million per year. etc...

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No long reliever is anything special. Every LOSING team needs a guy like a Miner,Bonine,Thomas,Durbin etc. etc.

There.....I fixed it for you.

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Benoit could perform at 50% the level he did last season and he'd be better than Lyon.

I'm not expecting a sub 2 BB/9 next season from him. I'm also not expecting an 11+ SO/9. Say more like 9 SO/9 and 3 BB/9. That's still pretty great. With a normal homerun rate, that's something like a 3.50 xFIP. And that's with a lot of regression.

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But I think that if Thomas pitches much for the Tigers in 2011.....it is a bad sign.

Pretty sure someone posted this exact sentiment last year! :wink:

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Lyons may be more reliable than Benoit. But Benoit is better than Lyons. I'm not sure how to value reliability over performance. I think I would rather value performance.

No, Benoit was better than Lyon in one season. That's it. I'm not sure how you can take one season and say that makes a player better than another guy who has a long track record of being the better player.

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Honestly, Ballmich, sometimes I can't help but wonder if you wouldn't gripe about, oh nevermind.

Well, I gripe about misleading and inaccurate comments, like $5.5MM/season is the going rate for above average relievers.

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Ballmich....Benoit was better in 2005 and 2007 in addition to 2010.

Not if you rank each seasonal performance an compare each player that way, because it's inconsequential what year the player is up and down. Lyon had a great 2010 year, suddenly it doesn't matter because Benoit's one good year came in 2010? Rank their seasons and compare Benoit's #1 year to Lyon's #1 year and downward...Benoit's been better all of once.

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Well, I gripe about misleading and inaccurate comments, like $5.5MM/season is the going rate for above average relievers.

Then stop making inaccurate comments like Benoit has been better than Lyons in only 1 season of his career :happy:

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Well anyway the other aspect of this signing - it frees up Coke for the rotation.

That's a pipe dream that Coke will last in the rotation. It doesn't hurt to try it, but his track record indicates he won't succeed.

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Then stop making inaccurate comments like Benoit has been better than Lyons in only 1 season of his career :happy:

I didn't.

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