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Who replaces Greg Robinson?

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I'm not thrilled with what the defense has done, but I don't know if it's Robinson's fault. Talent is a problem, injuries have hurt, & I wonder if there's confusion over scheme. R-Rod has run the 3-3-5. I don't seem to remember Robinson being familiar with that. Too many voices in your head as a player can reek havoc.

I think it is the perfect storm of everything you just mentioned:

1. Greg Robinson isn't that good of a defensive coordinator to begin with. He hasn't done anything to prove he is a good coach since the late 90's. That is a long time ago in the football world.

2. Rich Rodriguez has forced a system on Greg Robinson that he is unfamiliar with and does not know how to coach. Now you have a bad coach, running a system he doesn't know how to run.

3. Injuries in the defensive backfield and to important players like Mike Martin.

4. Recruits that did not pan out, some that left, some that haven't been as good.

5. Recruits that never made it to campus like Demar Dorsey.

6. Warren leaving for the draft early.

7. Now the players you have left over are all young, inexperienced, and not quite big enough or strong enough for Big Ten play. This isn't to say they won't be good in the future, there have been some bright spots for some of these players, but good production is probably a year or 2 away for some of these young guys forced into duty.

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The biggest problem has been the defense. Still, special teams are a problem and recruiting is also far behind where its been in the past. Managing of game situations and making halftime and in game adjustments have been poor and average at best. All of these things fall right on the head coach.

I'm interested in what makes you say half time adjustments are a problem, given that Michigan has been a better 2nd half team pretty much the entire time Rodriguez has been at Michigan, including the 3-9 season. The punting game has been awesome, kick returns were good last year and ok this year. Field goal kicking was fine until this year. Punt returns are the only special teams aspect to be consistently bad all three years. In game adjustments offensively are presumably fine, based on Michigan moving the ball at will.

Recruiting isn't as good as in the past, but far behind seems a bit strong. With a decent close they will be 2nd in the Big 10, just behind Ohio State, just like they were almost every year of Lloyd Carr's recruiting.

On a vaguely related note, since we're discussing possible DC hires, who do you want to replace Monte Kiffin?

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I don't get it either. Michigan is now 1-3 against the supposedly better Big Ten teams. That's 1 time their offense was "unstoppable" through an entire game.

You do realize that both teams have to play offense and defense right? The offense can have a great game and the team can still lose. Had Michigan lost 67-65 to Illinois would you say, "I don't get it, I thought this offense was unstoppable, how could they lose?"

In Michigan's worst game of the season they put up 377 offensive yards. Unless Michigan can steal Oregon's entire coaching staff and team, they're not going to be much better offensively.

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I can't believe that some people are now grading the success of the program on offensive ranking and not W-L record.

I guess you could measure success of a program based on the severity of it's NCAA infractions.

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When was I in love with Greg Robinson so much ... that I was in bed with him?

Yeah, I thought he might work out ..... but he's not, and it's pretty clear.

Okay, from 9/14/10.

Benke, can you do us all a favor and list the players that would be ok to transfer? Fortunately, every one of them so far has been no big deal, but I would like to have a list to refer to when the next one occurs.
Greg Robinson.
He's doing a great job if you consider what he has to work with.

http://www.motownsports.com/forums/2304962-post725.html

You've been a Robinson apologist all season, until just recently.

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Okay, from 9/14/10.

http://www.motownsports.com/forums/2304962-post725.html

You've been a Robinson apologist all season, until just recently.

To be fair, he's basically been a UM "apologist" (and by apologist I mean fan) all year. Until recently he (and most UM fans) were generally pretty happy with the season, even with the poor defense. It isn't unreasonable to have felt better about the team and the defense when they were ranked and undefeated.

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To be fair, he's basically been a UM "apologist" (and by apologist I mean fan) all year. Until recently he (and most UM fans) were generally pretty happy with the season, even with the poor defense. It isn't unreasonable to have felt better about the team and the defense when they were ranked and undefeated.

I have been the same way most of the season. I was still pretty happy even through Iowa then Penn State had me feeling pretty down. Thankfully Illinois picked me back up.

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To be fair, he's basically been a UM "apologist" (and by apologist I mean fan) all year. Until recently he (and most UM fans) were generally pretty happy with the season, even with the poor defense. It isn't unreasonable to have felt better about the team and the defense when they were ranked and undefeated.

Thank you.

I thought the defense would get better as the season went on, with what he had to work with ..... it hasn't.

Then I started reading stuff, and when I read how the players aren't even in the right alignment, that really bugged me, and got me thinking... This isn't working. And with every game -- since Big Ten play has begun, our team has proved two things - 1.) this offense works in the Big Ten, and 2.) that this defense isn't working --- at all, and it's the fault of Greg Robinson. Not having the players in the proper location, sorry - that's all on the DC.

Edited by JonBenke

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It is partly him partly the youth and depth. I think the biggest issue facing this defense right now is all the injuries, youth, and overall lack of depth. However, it doesn't help when you have a bad coach. Greg Robinson hasn't done anything in about 11 years or so to prove he is a good coach. In fact he has done quite the opposite at every stop.

The key here is, with all these players gaining more experience and getting some injured players back, if you can bring in a solid defensive guy and let him run his system we may just take a decent leap forward on defense. I'm not saying we will be great, but if we can move up to just middle of the pack next year with all these offensive starters coming back, it could be special.

Youth is an excuse, they couldn't hold off some of the near D2 schools they played. Michigan may be young but they still are talented, they don't play up to their level of talent. I think a big problem is with the scheme. I don't think they would be a top 10 defense with a new coordinator, but I certainly think they could be in the top 100, Mike Martin alone should be able to carry a college team defense to within the top 100.

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Youth is an excuse, they couldn't hold off some of the near D2 schools they played.

Having an entire secondary of all freshmen ... that's worth noting.

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Youth is an excuse, they couldn't hold off some of the near D2 schools they played. Michigan may be young but they still are talented, they don't play up to their level of talent. I think a big problem is with the scheme. I don't think they would be a top 10 defense with a new coordinator, but I certainly think they could be in the top 100, Mike Martin alone should be able to carry a college team defense to within the top 100.

I agree with you mostly. Which is why I think it is time to bring in a new DC. That being said, as Benke already stated, the amount of freshmen is worth mentioning.

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Speaking of giving up a lot of points to FCS teams. During the years when we had a "good" defense Appalachian State dropped 34 on Michigan. UMass hit us with 37 points but thankfully we scored 42 and not 32.

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Speaking of giving up a lot of points to FCS teams. During the years when we had a "good" defense Appalachian State dropped 34 on Michigan. UMass hit us with 37 points but thankfully we scored 42 and not 32.

And we know all about what Vince Young did to us in the Rose Bowl.

I'm all for having a D that is effective.

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correct. an explanation of why something went wrong isn't necessarily an excuse.

The youth is fact, but there isn't an excuse for not having your players in the correct alignment.

It's bad enough they're all freshmen, you can at least have 'em all in the right spots. That's my beef.

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The youth is fact, but there isn't an excuse for not having your players in the correct alignment.

It's bad enough they're all freshmen, you can at least have 'em all in the right spots. That's my beef.

I'm with you there Benke. The youth is obviously going to prevent you from having a stellar defense, but when you have a bad DC it is going to make it much worse. A lot of these young kids are still good, just need to be coached up and get bigger.

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The offense hasn't been "unstoppable" all the time. However, with the exception of Michigan State, they have put up huge numbers against every Big Ten opponent so far this year. That includes the better defenses like Iowa and Illinois, and a decent one in Penn State. Turnovers have been a problem for sure, but this is still a young offense with room to grow and they are putting up amazing numbers. The defense is the problem.

I don't care how many yards they gain, the point of the game is scoring and they didn't come out against Michigan State, Iowa or Penn State and do that. If the only thing you have going for you is the offense, the only hope of dominating a game is the offense, I'll stand by he's 1-3 against the allegedly better defenses in the conference right now. You might be right, the offense is young and they could be poised to come out and be the force you are predicting but that hasn't yet been the case.

Secondly, an offense that can control the clock and limit opponent's possessions contributes to the effectiveness of the defense. Against Iowa they won that battle, 31 min to 29 min. Penn State and Michigan State won that war by over 26 minutes. That's a problem.

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I can't believe that some people are now grading the success of the program on offensive ranking and not W-L record.

I can't believe how you spin other people's comments into your own bullsh-t. Ill give you one thing though, you are quite entertaining.

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I don't care how many yards they gain, the point of the game is scoring and they didn't come out against Michigan State, Iowa or Penn State and do that. If the only thing you have going for you is the offense, the only hope of dominating a game is the offense, I'll stand by he's 1-3 against the allegedly better defenses in the conference right now. You might be right, the offense is young and they could be poised to come out and be the force you are predicting but that hasn't yet been the case.

Secondly, an offense that can control the clock and limit opponent's possessions contributes to the effectiveness of the defense. Against Iowa they won that battle, 31 min to 29 min. Penn State and Michigan State won that war by over 26 minutes. That's a problem.

Iowa and Penn State the offense was fine, they can't play perfect every series. And msu they had two turnovers and a missed fg in the red zone. With even a mediocre defense the offensive mistakes would not hurt them as bad. Right now they make one mistake, and they are down two scores because the defense just cannot stop anybody.

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Iowa and Penn State the offense was fine, they can't play perfect every series. And msu they had two turnovers and a missed fg in the red zone. With even a mediocre defense the offensive mistakes would not hurt them as bad. Right now they make one mistake, and they are down two scores because the defense just cannot stop anybody.

Exactly, and that is the biggest issue facing this program right now. People like to laugh at RR supporters because of how excited we are about the offense. I think everyone understands the defense is a problem, and were not saying that we can just shrug off the defense. However, when looking at the future you can see the potential for an amazing offensive powerhouse. That should be taken into account when deciding where to go from here.

You can easily flip the argument around if you had a great defense but couldn't score enough points to win. People would be begging for a new OC and a different offensive approach and things could be great.

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I think it is the perfect storm of everything you just mentioned:

1. Greg Robinson isn't that good of a defensive coordinator to begin with. He hasn't done anything to prove he is a good coach since the late 90's. That is a long time ago in the football world.

2. Rich Rodriguez has forced a system on Greg Robinson that he is unfamiliar with and does not know how to coach. Now you have a bad coach, running a system he doesn't know how to run.

3. Injuries in the defensive backfield and to important players like Mike Martin.

4. Recruits that did not pan out, some that left, some that haven't been as good.

5. Recruits that never made it to campus like Demar Dorsey.

6. Warren leaving for the draft early.

7. Now the players you have left over are all young, inexperienced, and not quite big enough or strong enough for Big Ten play. This isn't to say they won't be good in the future, there have been some bright spots for some of these players, but good production is probably a year or 2 away for some of these young guys forced into duty.

I think the performance of the offense has had an effect on the D too. Not that it's the only reason, or even the main reason, but I think it's a factor. Mostly the turnovers. Then again, when you're offense scores 50+ you shouldn't need 3 OTs to win.

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I think the performance of the offense has had an effect on the D too. Not that it's the only reason, or even the main reason, but I think it's a factor. Mostly the turnovers. Then again, when you're offense scores 50+ you shouldn't need 3 OTs to win.

I agree. I have said that before too. It is in no way an excuse for the defense or trying to say they are a good defense. The offense does effect the defense.

First and foremost the turnovers.(This is actually why people were somewhat pleased with the defense against Illinois) We turned the ball over 5 times, another time on downs, and punted out of the end zone once. The defense was put in horrible spots the entire game. Not many defenses are going to step up every time in that situation. Granted, if we had Ohio States defense, we probably would have given up less points, but all and all, when the offense turns the ball over a lot, your defense is going to give up points.

Secondly our offense is so up tempo, and scores so fast, that an opposing team is going to have a lot of chances with the ball. I think that alone, even when we get decent defenses, will have an affect on our defenses statistics.

A perfect example of this was the UConn game. Our defense wasn't amazing that game, but somehow only gave up 10 points. A lot of that had to do with the amount of times UConn had the ball as compared to other games we have played this season.

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The St Louis Rams of the "Greatest Show on Turf" era had an amazing offense and somehow managed to score on D as well because the other team was forced to pass to keep up.

Any team playing Michigan can run through our front 7 with impunity and pass with impunity.

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I agree with you mostly. Which is why I think it is time to bring in a new DC. That being said, as Benke already stated, the amount of freshmen is worth mentioning.

And if Rodriguez forces the next DC to run a 3-3-5, will we continue to blame that DC too?

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