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belcherboy

When do you push the "fire" button on Rich Rod?

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I've heard A LOT of grumbling down here about RRod's future up in Ann Arbor. I do realize that it is all rumors, and probably 99% of them are started by upset fans, but how much more grace does RR have in his job at Michigan?

With the rest of the season looking like:

@ Penn State, Sat, Oct 30

Illinois Sat, Nov 6

@ Purdue, Sat, Nov 13

Wisconsin, Sat, Nov 20

@ Ohio State, Sat, Nov 27

There is little doubt, without a miracle on the defensive side of the ball, that Michigan will lose at least 2 of those games, and more than likely, 3-4. If Michigan goes 7-5, while losing miserably to Wisconsin and OSU, does he get to finish the final year of his contract at Michigan?

I was excited about the start, but the reality is, they didn't play anyone that is very good the first 5 weeks. If the last two weeks show anything, it is that Michigan isn't much different than last years team. They've improved no doubt, but they still aren't winning very many Big Ten games.

If I were a betting man, I'd say that RR is on his way out. It is too bad, because I really wanted to see him succeed. I don't think I would be too disappointed if they got a guy like Harbaugh, but I am disappointed that RR wasn't more successful in AA!

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Wow, we just lost to two very good ranked teams .... damn, FIRE THE GUY!!

If we can't finish 7-5, fire him. The thing is, I think we'll go 8-4!

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I think the problem is there are a lot of people out there who didn't want Rich Rodriguez coming here in the first place. Now they are just looking for a reason to send him on his way. I've heard plenty of rumors as well but from both ends of the spectrum. One is David Brandon is very upset with the direction of the team and the other where he's telling visiting recruits that Rich Rod is going nowhere. I think he get's at least one more year, but that is only if he can win at least 7 games. I don't agree with DennisDubay though that if they did fire him we'd go back to losing until a new coach puts in his scheme. We have the tools right now to be competitive with a pro style offense and once you get the 3-3-5 out of town I doubt the defense would be any worse than it is now.

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Wow, we just lost to two very good ranked teams .... damn, FIRE THE GUY!!

If we can't finish 7-5, fire him. The thing is, I think we'll go 8-4!

I do hope we go 8-4, but who is betting on it right now? The fact of the matter is, RR can't win Big Ten games. He is proving it again. With 2 of the remaining 5 games against highly ranked teams, it isn't looking good. Also, given the fact that Illinois has looked pretty good the past few weeks, Michigan may not be able to get past them. If they lose to Penn State or Purdue, they should fire him on the spot IMO!

The question is Jon, when is enough, enough? I would not cry one tear if RR is on the sidelines in the fall of 2011, I'd like to see him finish what he started, but I also would not be in an uproar if they fired him after getting beat badly by Wisconsin and OSU to end the season. We've lost to our in state rival 3 games in a row (this last game was bad), and it looks like OSU's second string could probably score consistently on Michigan's defense right now.

I don't think 7-5 saves him, especially if he loses badly in either or both of the final two games. The 5-0 start may have gotten people too excited, and a 2-5 finish, may just be enough to pull the plug. Especially given the fact that all those games are B10 games.

Edited by belcherboy

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Well, they will only ensure themselves of at least 3 to 4 more years of losing if they abort the plan as it is now.

It doesn't have to be like that.

Sincerely,

Nick Saban - Alabama

Nick Saban - LSU

Pete Carroll - USC

Jim Tressel - OSU

Jim Harbaugh - Stanford

Urban Meyer - Florida

Bo Pelini - Nebraska

Mack Brown - Texas

Gene Chizik - Auburn

Mark Dantonio - Michigan State

Countless other displays of good coaches reaching the top ten of the country in less than 3-4 years on the job.

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I've heard A LOT of grumbling down here about RRod's future up in Ann Arbor. I do realize that it is all rumors, and probably 99% of them are started by upset fans, but how much more grace does RR have in his job at Michigan?

With the rest of the season looking like:

@ Penn State, Sat, Oct 30

Illinois Sat, Nov 6

@ Purdue, Sat, Nov 13

Wisconsin, Sat, Nov 20

@ Ohio State, Sat, Nov 27

There is little doubt, without a miracle on the defensive side of the ball, that Michigan will lose at least 2 of those games, and more than likely, 3-4. If Michigan goes 7-5, while losing miserably to Wisconsin and OSU, does he get to finish the final year of his contract at Michigan?

I was excited about the start, but the reality is, they didn't play anyone that is very good the first 5 weeks. If the last two weeks show anything, it is that Michigan isn't much different than last years team. They've improved no doubt, but they still aren't winning very many Big Ten games.

If I were a betting man, I'd say that RR is on his way out. It is too bad, because I really wanted to see him succeed. I don't think I would be too disappointed if they got a guy like Harbaugh, but I am disappointed that RR wasn't more successful in AA!

RR still has time to be successful. They should be favored in the next 3 games and I don't see them getting blown off the field the last couple.....Iowa and MSU are probably as good as OSU and Wisconsin and while both Iowa and MSU out-executed us, neither team really out-classed us.

But hypothetically, if your 7-5 scenario plays out, with embarrassing losses included in there, then sure it's logical to assess the coaching situation. I personally wouldn't make a change because everything is set up for 2011, especially on offense, when we finally might have a game-breaking RB, all but a couple players return, and the defense won't be criminally inexperienced (not saying this inexperience isn't his fault, but saying this is not likely to be a weakness for him going forward).

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RR still has time to be successful. They should be favored in the next 3 games and I don't see them getting blown off the field the last couple.....Iowa and MSU are probably as good as OSU and Wisconsin and while both Iowa and MSU out-executed us, neither team really out-classed us.

But hypothetically, if your 7-5 scenario plays out, with embarrassing losses included in there, then sure it's logical to assess the coaching situation. I personally wouldn't make a change because everything is set up for 2011, especially on offense, when we finally might have a game-breaking RB, all but a couple players return, and the defense won't be criminally inexperienced (not saying this inexperience isn't his fault, but saying this is not likely to be a weakness for him going forward).

The fact of the matter is that RR can't hardly win in AA, in Big Ten play!

I think my worry is that Illinois will score at will against Michigan. Hopefully Michigan will match them offensively, an Indiana type game scares me against Illinois.

At this point I don't see how Michigan will be much of a favorite against Illinois. If it where @ Illinois, I would guarantee it would be in Illinois' favor. I think both teams are wash, and I really don't believe in a home field advantage for Michigan yet (they seem to lose a lot of home games).

I'm also not confident in playing @ Penn State. Hopefully Penn State will continue to play a badly as they have so far this year!

I'm thinking Wisconsin and OSU will be playing for something late in the season when playing Michigan, and will put up BIG numbers against a beat up Michigan. I do hope I'm wrong.

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It all depends on how the season ends. If they beat the teams they should and lose to the teams they should, or pretty much what they have done so far, then they will finish 8-4. Given the youth on the roster and the large number of players returning next season, I imagine that would be enough to keep his job and set the stage for a make-it-or break it season in 2011. I think a 6-6 or 5-7 record and he's gone and 7-5 will make it a toss up.

We didn't out gain a single team in the Big Ten last year. We were also outgained by ND. This year, we were virtually even in yards with ND and Indiana and we outgained Iowa by roughly 140 yards. That was one somewhat encouraging development from the Iowa game, even though it was a game marred by penalties and TO's. In previous years, we were outgained by 100-200 yards, struggled with turnovers, and had virtually no hope. This year, we legitimately hung with a top 15 team and easily could have beat them if the mistakes didn't creep up again. I was especially impressed with how the offense performed against a stout D without Molk, Odoms and Robinson. The offense could be special next year with an upperclassmen QB, every skill position player returning and 4 experienced O lineman coming back. The defense's development will determine just how far they can go with a schedule that should set up reasonably well for them.

Regardless, it all depends on the last few games. We should beat Penn State, Illinois and Purdue. We'll see if we can do it.

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It's hard to be confident after two straight losses. Until we lose to psu, Illinois, or purdue it's silly to talk about firing the guy. I'm pissed we lost the last two. But I think they will win the next three.

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Regardless, it all depends on the last few games. We should beat Penn State, Illinois and Purdue. We'll see if we can do it.

I don't see Illinois as a "should beat" team right now. Their 3 losses have come against teams with a combined record of 19-1! They've looked pretty good against those highly ranked teams (although they got beat up the second half against MSU, after taking a halftime lead)

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What is the record of the teams Michigan lost to?

Well that's my point, why is Illinois a "should beat" team? Why do you think Illinois is a game Michigan should win? I personally think it is a crap shoot! At least by watching both teams play (I've only watched Illinois for a large chunk of the OSU game, and a little bit of the MSU game...I've watched every Michigan game)

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I think the problem is there are a lot of people out there who didn't want Rich Rodriguez coming here in the first place. Now they are just looking for a reason to send him on his way.

I didn't want him in the first place, but I am not suggesting that he be fired now. I'd like to see the season play out. If we can finish respectible, he should have a fourth season. But I really believe that we should be a 10 win team in 2011. And if we aren't, it's probably time to start over. Four years is more than enough to get a program to an elite level, particularly one with the recruiting power and history that UM has.

Really, it shouldn't take four years, but clearly RR made the mistake of coming to Ann Arbor without a strategy for the defensive side of the ball. We are paying for that now. But here's to hoping he can patch it up sufficiently with one more recruiting class.

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I didn't want him in the first place, but I am not suggesting that he be fired now. I'd like to see the season play out. If we can finish respectible, he should have a fourth season. But I really believe that we should be a 10 win team in 2011. And if we aren't, it's probably time to start over. Four years is more than enough to get a program to an elite level, particularly one with the recruiting power and history that UM has.

Really, it shouldn't take four years, but clearly RR made the mistake of coming to Ann Arbor without a strategy for the defensive side of the ball. We are paying for that now. But here's to hoping he can patch it up sufficiently with one more recruiting class.

I think the biggest thing hurting him is that he has 4 B10 wins in 19 B10 games at Michigan. 3 of those 4 wins came against Indiana (2) and Minnesota. The lone big, B10 victory was against Wisconsin in his first year. a 4-4 Big Ten record wouldn't be a bad season by any means, but IMO that is the BEST case scenario, and the Illinois game is anything but a sure thing IMO!

He starts strong and limps to the end! Not a good sign for a team that is getting better.

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If the team finishes at least 7-5, you'll be firing him largely because of past seasons. What sense does that make? They should have just fired him already if they intended to look at his cumulative record after this season and act on that basis, because it was going to be a crummy cumulative record regardless of how well things went this season.

I think they finish 9-4 (bowl game) and he comes back, as he should.

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If the team finishes at least 7-5, you'll be firing him largely because of past seasons. What sense does that make? They should have just fired him already if they intended to look at his cumulative record after this season and act on that basis, because it was going to be a crummy cumulative record regardless of how well things went this season.

Well you have to look at his TOTAL coaching time here, right? Obviously, you can't just throw out the past, can you?

If you notice the pattern here the past two year....good OOC play, but can't win the B10 games? What is the goal of EVERY football team, if they aren't going to win the NC? To win their conference. If they can't win their conference, what is their second goal? To beat their rival. So far RR has failed at both....miserably, having not won a single rivalry game, and having won just 4 conference games and finishing dead last in conference IIRC.

Are you saying that if they fire him, it should just be on what he accomplished this season? I don't think they will sell it that way, but it may be true!

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I don't see Illinois as a "should beat" team right now. Their 3 losses have come against teams with a combined record of 19-1! They've looked pretty good against those highly ranked teams (although they got beat up the second half against MSU, after taking a halftime lead)

Michigan will be favored. The game is at home, Illinois has one of the worst offenses in the Big Ten and our offense has moved the ball against every defense we faced. We just can't turn the ball over and we should win.

In fact, our next 3 opponents are the 3 worst offenses in the Big Ten in terms of total offense, yards per play and scoring offense. And, I'd expect our offense to move the ball against any defense. Basically, if we don't make dumb mistakes, these are the type of teams who match up well with us. They are 1 dimensional teams who are not good on both sides of the ball and it basically sets up a matchup of weakness vs. weakness (their O vs. our D) and strength vs. strength (Our O vs. their D). Its likely, imo, that our strength gives us the advantage.

Edited by Scottwood

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I wouldn't think 7-5 with a horrible defense not befitting Michigan football and the failure to beat MSU and OSU would be enough to keep the job.

Do these other things matter to fans or is it just about record right now?

I can't see Denard and company going anywhere after a coaching change. The cupboard should be pretty full for a new coach and I don't see it as another complete system rebuild like when RR took over. It shouldn't take the right coach long at all to get the program winning again.

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Do you really think this team isn't better than last year? If that is the case, fine; you are entitled to your opinion. I just think it isn't very practical to bring out the torches and pitchforks just yet. Let's wait and see how he does over the final five big ten games. Who cares about 2008? That season couldn't be more irrelevant to discussing the current state of the team. Compare them to last year. They won the Indiana game and the nd game. That's it. So far this year they beat uconn, nd, and Indiana. They have five more games left. If they lose the rest, then go ahead and push the fire button. I see progress in how the team is playing. It's still a very young team with a lot of potential. You can fire him now if you want. I just don't think it would be based on anything other than emotion and a bruised ego.

They lost to two very good teams. Big deal.

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Michigan will be favored. The game is at home, Illinois has one of the worst offenses in the Big Ten and our offense has moved the ball against every defense we faced. We just can't turn the ball over and we should win.

In fact, our next 3 opponents are the 3 worst offenses in the Big Ten in terms of total offense, yards per play and scoring offense. And, I'd expect our offense to move the ball against any defense. Basically, if we don't make dumb mistakes, these are the type of teams who match up well with us.

What is Michigan's home record, in conference play, since RR has started? Home field has meant NOTHING to Michigan the past 3 seasons in conference play. They may be favored by Vegas, but if you have watched Illinois, I think you may agree that they are definitely a SERIOUS threat to Michigan. Last year they KICKED our tail, and I'm not sure we will stop them this year, with the nations worst defense (we might have improved that the past few weeks though).

Also, Illinois might not be putting up big numbers, but look at the defenses they have played against.....MSU, and OSU are REALLY good defenses (I know Ohio State was top five a week or so ago). I don't know how good Missouri's defense is, but they must be pretty good if they are 7-0.

I hope Michigan beats them, but I'm definitely not counting Illinois as a "should beat" team right now!

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Do you really think this team isn't better than last year? If that is the case, fine; you are entitled to your opinion. I just think it isn't very practical to bring out the torches and pitchforks just yet. Let's wait and see how he does over the final five big ten games. Who cares about 2008? That season couldn't be more irrelevant to discussing the current state of the team. Compare them to last year. They won the Indiana game and the nd game. That's it. So far this year they beat uconn, nd, and Indiana. They have five more games left. If they lose the rest, then go ahead and push the fire button. I see progress in how the team is playing. It's still a very young team with a lot of potential. You can fire him now if you want. I just don't think it would be based on anything other than emotion and a bruised ego.

They lost to two very good teams. Big deal.

I'm amazed at how some people take a hypothetical question like "when would you fire RR" as advocating that he is fired now!! I mean, look at the front page of ESPN.com. They are talking about it!

The fact of the matter is, you "RR should get another season unless he loses every game the rest of the year" crowd seem to think that he has accomplished much by beating UConn, ND, and Indiana. C'mon now, it was nice, but REALLY what have they done this year??

I've never advocated firing him, UNTIL the end of the season, IF certain things happen.

Also, why do you think Michigan has improved so much? Because they put up big numbers against the first 5 opponents? As good as the offense has been, the defense has been that much worse IMO! At least in the last two games that has been the case (and arguably against a few of the teams in the first five games)

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I somewhat agree with hongbit. They could do just fine with a new coach as long as he knows how to run the read options. I don't know if you can find anyone better than rr to do that but whatever.

It's pretty simple. If you think a new hire is better suited to improve the team from its current state then you hire him. Forget the past. It's gone.

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I somewhat agree with hongbit. They could do just fine with a new coach as long as he knows how to run the read options. I don't know if you can find anyone better than rr to do that but whatever.

It's pretty simple. If you think a new hire is better suited to improve the team from its current state then you hire him. Forget the past. It's gone.

I tend to judge a coach by his whole body of work, but not everyone feels the same way. I do think you give preference to the current season when deciding a coaches fate, but since when does 7-5 or 8-4 been considered a good year at Michigan??? Yeah, since RR showed up!

I really like the offense, but Michigan isn't even in the top half of the B10 any longer, and they are losing ground with in state recruits to the surging Michigan State program. If RR goes 7-5, I think you let him go. I'm not saying that I would be upset if he stayed, but I don't see why he would have earned another year.

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