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Mortgage-Title Fraud: A National Catastrophe

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Dang, re the local contractor in Texas. I know a guy who does/did this kind of work for Countrywide. He travels all over. It was all he could find to do after he was laid off as a maintenance supervisor then invested his 401K into a dry cleaning business that he couldn't make profitable. Hope it wasn't him that screwed up because he really is a good, hardworking man.

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Why do I suspect that the major players will be able to buy off politicians and that it will be the 'little people' that are hurt by this? :ponder:

what little people and how will they be hurt..

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You have little or no comprehension of the circumstances..you posted an article that has zero to do with your orininal post that started the thread..one is a title issue, one is human error, on one house..pick a side..

It's like when law enforcement raid the wrong address..its horrible but it happens..The bank will settle, pay damages..the end.

Either there is a massive title issue, based upon the original post..or there isn't.

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Why do I suspect that the major players will be able to buy off politicians and that it will be the 'little people' that are hurt by this? :ponder:

Because that will be the likely outcome.

We have seen this before, we don't learn. The S&L Crisis sent over 1,000 people to jail. This is larger (mortgage-gate as a part of the housing/credit/debt problem) and more expensive situation than the S&L, yet the conviction count is zero. Incredible.

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You have little or no comprehension of the circumstances..you posted an article that has zero to do with your orininal post that started the thread..one is a title issue, one is human error, on one house..pick a side..

It's like when law enforcement raid the wrong address..its horrible but it happens..The bank will settle, pay damages..the end.

Either there is a massive title issue, based upon the original post..or there isn't.

Titles are a part of it. They are part of the paperwork required to buy, sell, and securitize mortgages. There are these thinks called laws, and how the paperwork is to be handled. But I guess you know all that.

There is also the investor, who may have been lied to. That's called security fraud, people go to jail for that (or should). I know the people at the SEC are busy surfing porn, but some of us like to watch what's going on, and this smells bad on many levels.

But I guess it's just as easy to poo poo it. Laws be damned.

At the same time, this subject infuriates me. I wasn't going to respond to you, which I thought you wanted as well (I didn't know enough). You can poo poo this all you want, your not going to change my mind. With that, just consider any further response as the guy with the cardboard sign.

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Titles are a part of it. They are part of the paperwork required to buy, sell, and securitize mortgages. There are these thinks called laws, and how the paperwork is to be handled. But I guess you know all that.

There is also the investor, who may have been lied to. That's called security fraud, people go to jail for that (or should). I know the people at the SEC are busy surfing porn, but some of us like to watch what's going on, and this smells bad on many levels.

But I guess it's just as easy to poo poo it. Laws be damned.

At the same time, this subject infuriates me. I wasn't going to respond to you, which I thought you wanted as well (I didn't know enough). You can poo poo this all you want, your not going to change my mind. With that, just consider any further response as the guy with the cardboard sign.

go read your original premise..you get farther away with each post..

I understand the secutitization process well..do you..what kind of trader are you..you didn't answer my question..

I undserstand every single part of the process from origination to securitization, servicing and REO..do you..

Whats your point..it seems to be muddled and disjointed..

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It's the solution to clearing title..not how the title was clouded..unless the ACLU steps up to make this a class action issue..I doubt it isn't resolved pretty easily.

Until someone demmonstrates they were illegally and immorally thrown out of their home, when they "were" making timely payments..there isn't an issue.

Gosh, I hope that the mortgage companies aren't taking such an attitude about it. "Eh. No biggie because we can go in later and fix it." If there isn't fraud now, there is definitely the potential for it when record keeping and processing is done so haphazardly.

What I don't get is why this wasn't uncovered a long time ago. Other financial businesses have auditors on site all the darned time and they look at this stuff. Or at least, they are supposed to.

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Gosh, I hope that the mortgage companies aren't taking such an attitude about it. "Eh. No biggie because we can go in later and fix it." If there isn't fraud now, there is definitely the potential for it when record keeping and processing is done so haphazardly.

What I don't get is why this wasn't uncovered a long time ago. Other financial businesses have auditors on site all the darned time and they look at this stuff. Or at least, they are supposed to.

Look..it's not to be trivialized or ignored..but if there are issues, let fix them..rather than point fingers and yell fire in a crowded theatre..it's the difference betwen businessmen and political types..doers and critics..they both have their places..but arguing about issues that are not clearly defined and fleshed out, discussing poorly defined circusmstances that dont present possible solutions, is just chaos..

I'm going to work out..outside while its nice enough to enjoy the day..

until someone can clarify what the problems are and present solutions..this isn't going anywhere productive..

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Gosh, I hope that the mortgage companies aren't taking such an attitude about it. "Eh. No biggie because we can go in later and fix it." If there isn't fraud now, there is definitely the potential for it when record keeping and processing is done so haphazardly.

What I don't get is why this wasn't uncovered a long time ago. Other financial businesses have auditors on site all the darned time and they look at this stuff. Or at least, they are supposed to.

I was, but it's been covered up for a long time. This is just a piece, of a much bigger puzzle, but a good one nevertheless. This can lead to the criminals that pulled off this scam and help so it doesn't happen again. Watch this closely and see how the crooks try to wiggle out of this mess.

Attitude? Every time something blew up, the CEO or government official was yapping "everything is ok, nothing to worry about, subprime is contained" yada, yada yada, whatever the lie was at the time. It's not even funny anymore. I'm tired of hearing it, and everyone else should be too.

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go read your original premise..you get farther away with each post..

I understand the secutitization process well..do you..what kind of trader are you..you didn't answer my question..

I undserstand every single part of the process from origination to securitization, servicing and REO..do you..

Whats your point..it seems to be muddled and disjointed..

Algo generated automatic response

****warning - profanity in link ****

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I don't understand why subprime lenders are vilified. is their no responsibility by the consumer anymore? Then when the lender forecloses on them, the bank is the villain. There are so many laws set up to protect consumers. If you don't make your payments you should lose your house. Make your payments on time and you don't have to worry.

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no offense..you're truly lacking in the basic understanding of the foreclosure process, it's legal ramifications and the banks resposnsiblity..

You are obvously one of these lunatic fringe tea party goofs belive the the governemnt owes you something..

I read the drivel these bloggers posted..their comprehension of the deal is equally as muddled and foolish as yours..

Foreclosure attorney's can discuss the due process every homeowner is allowed..this is an old poorly crafted argument which will be resolved simply and efficiently..

The securitization aspect sailed long ago..the tranches have traded and traded..markets are efficient.

Tell me again..what kind of trader are you..specifically..it slipped my mind..

Edited by sportz4life

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Wow. And evidently the Obama administration was aware of these shoddy practices and chose to ignore them.

In recent days, amid reports that major lenders have used improper procedures and fraudulent paperwork to seize properties, some Obama administration officials have acknowledged they had been aware of flaws in how the mortgage industry pursues foreclosures.

But the officials said they could take only limited action to address the danger. In part, this was because they wanted lenders' help carrying out federal programs to modify mortgages that had fallen into default or were poised to do so.

washingtonpost.com

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They ignored it..because people who didn't make their mortgage payments, were thrown out of their home..the documents may not have been signed (executed) properly..but nobody was taken advantage of..

The title issue can be easily corrected.

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Who is going to pay for this, i.e. to identify which homes have title problems and to correct them? Some of these houses may have resold so it affects more than those who were foreclosed on.

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Who is going to pay for this, i.e. to identify which homes have title problems and to correct them? Some of these houses may have resold so it affects more than those who were foreclosed on.

It doesn't..if you didn't pay..you got foreclosed upon..those people were not thrown out or foreclosed upon, for no reason.

The banks will pay to correct the title mess.

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It doesn't..if you didn't pay..you got foreclosed upon..those people were not thrown out or foreclosed upon, for no reason.

The banks will pay to correct the title mess.

It doesn't really matter that much whether there was a good reason or not. If the law isn't followed, the foreclosure may be invalid.

But my concern, which I thought I made clear but perhaps didn't, is for those who have purchased these foreclosed properties. Some of them may even have changed hands a couple of times in the interim. Everyone who has purchased a home which has been foreclosed in the past -- and some may not even know that about their home -- have some cause for anxiety.

Of course, "the banks will pay" is easy enough to say, but most of these banks are already functioning at least in part on money borrowed from the taxpayers. And at the end of it, I suspect that it will be the taxpayers who end up on the hook to correct this mess ... again. And with that knowledge, it ticks me off that it was allowed to go on for so long in order to further the administration's political agenda.

What, were they hoping nobody would notice? At the beginning, I was just kind of, "hmmm" about this. But the more that comes out, the uglier it is.

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It doesn't really matter that much whether there was a good reason or not. If the law isn't followed, the foreclosure may be invalid.

But my concern, which I thought I made clear but perhaps didn't, is for those who have purchased these foreclosed properties. Some of them may even have changed hands a couple of times in the interim. Everyone who has purchased a home which has been foreclosed in the past -- and some may not even know that about their home -- have some cause for anxiety.

Of course, "the banks will pay" is easy enough to say, but most of these banks are already functioning at least in part on money borrowed from the taxpayers. And at the end of it, I suspect that it will be the taxpayers who end up on the hook to correct this mess ... again. And with that knowledge, it ticks me off that it was allowed to go on for so long in order to further the administration's political agenda.

What, were they hoping nobody would notice? At the beginning, I was just kind of, "hmmm" about this. But the more that comes out, the uglier it is.

Not Citi, Wells, Chase and B of A..

The title issues are easy to resolve...it's why they have title insurance.

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Citi did receive government money.

So did BoA. They've paid it back, but clearly haven't addressed the management and administrative problems that contributed to making them unprofitable in the first place.

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Old Republic Title Won’t Insure Chase Foreclosures

Old Republic National Title, one of the country’s largest title insurance companies announced that it won’t insure homes that have been foreclosed on by J.P. Morgan Chase.

The New York Times obtained a company memo that said Old Republic would not write policies on foreclosed Chase properties until “objectionable issues have been resolved.” Earlier last week, the company said it would not write title policies for homes that had been foreclosed by GMAC mortgage, which is now owned by Ally Bank.

Late last week Bank of America said it would also freeze foreclosures in certain states while it reconfirmed that the foreclosure documents had been prepared and executed correctly. It’s likely that Old Republic will stop writing title policies on these foreclosures as well.

If other major title companies follow suit, and stop writing these policies, it could turn into the watershed event that actually sends the already crippled housing market into a tailspin.

More at link.

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Pretty good primer on the many aspects of this. A bit wordy, but informative and easy to understand.

More on MERS.

Karl has been following this for a couple of years. He's in Florida so he also has a front row seat. One of the 4 states with the most problems.

Foreclosure Fraud: It's Worse Than You Think From CNBC, who I detest, but this is Diana Olick who has covered housing for CNBC and does a good job. The best reporter they have, bar none. The rest are pump-monkeys, shills for the big banks, and down right liars. But I trust Diana.

Property Rights Gone Wrong

My intent is not get into the smelly waters of politics, but sometimes finance, law, and what's right and wrong cross paths with with politics. I think this guy sums it up pretty good. Forget the politics, it's about the message.

ON EDIT: Embedded links in below article.

From Dylan Ratigan

Property Rights Gone Wrong

Most mortgages in America are now backed by our government. And in order for a bank to get that backing from our government it must fill two criteria:

1. The borrowers must be verified by the banks and their agents as qualified.

2. Lenders must fill out paperwork accurately and make sure that when the home's title changes hands, so does the documentation.

But in the past two decades, a whole lot of the time, that never happened.

Why?

For banks and servicers, the motive was money. Banks profited by packaging and selling those toxic home loans. Then they profited again by betting against those same securities. A bet, in essence, that a fraudulent loan wouldn't be paid back.

But why would politicians allow this?

The simple answer is to stay in office.

Giving people huge government incentives to buy houses made them happier and thus made their politicians more likely to keep their jobs. And at the same time, the financial services sector -- the banks making all the money -- were donating to their political campaigns.

In 2008, the financial sector was the top donor to both the Democratic and Republican candidates.

So where are all these toxic loans now? We own them! At the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac.

And the banks and politicians will do whatever it takes to prevent a legitimate foreclosure proceeding...one which would easily reveal the lack of qualifications and bad documentation in the loans sold to the government.

Finally, the last and most important why:

Why isn't the government dealing with it now?

Simply because it could reveal systematic criminal and civil fraud at the highest levels of America's banks and in its political corridors.

We might get a front row seat to how all this stuff went down in the very near future.

Countrywide Financial Corp. former Chief Executive Officer Angelo Mozilo must face trial on regulators’ claims he misled investors about risks tied to subprime lending, a judge ruled.

Edited by screwball

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It gets better.

Robo-signers: Mortgage experience not necessary - Yahoo! Finance

Robo-signers: Mortgage experience not necessary

Banks hired hair stylists, teens to process foreclosure documents, workers' testimony shows

NEW YORK (AP) -- In an effort to rush through thousands of home foreclosures since 2007, financial institutions and their mortgage servicing departments hired hair stylists, Walmart floor workers and people who had worked on assembly lines and installed them in "foreclosure expert" jobs with no formal training, a Florida lawyer says.

In depositions released Tuesday, many of those workers testified that they barely knew what a mortgage was. Some couldn't define the word "affidavit." Others didn't know what a complaint was, or even what was meant by personal property. Most troubling, several said they knew they were lying when they signed the foreclosure affidavits and that they agreed with the defense lawyers' accusations about document fraud.

"The mortgage servicers hired people who would never question authority," said Peter Ticktin, a Deerfield Beach, Fla., lawyer who is defending 3,000 homeowners in foreclosure cases. As part of his work, Ticktin gathered 150 depositions from bank employees who say they signed foreclosure affidavits without reviewing the documents or ever laying eyes on them -- earning them the name "robo-signers."

More stomach-churning details at the link...

Edited by Mr. DNA

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