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Dunkin Darvin

Off-season moves starting to take shape

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WTF, I am not positioning myself at all. I don't give a **** about -- "see, I told you guys".

I just don't see the point on speculating on who may or may not be available, sorry. No one knows.

I didn't say you were, just that it seemed that way because you inform us of this prediction every day it seems. That's just your style though. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Its what makes you Benke! :rambo:

I agree on not speculating specific players, but I still think that they just don't have chips to use this year. I don't think the team is in a position to trade a guy like Turner. If they had won 90 games, maybe. But this isn't the year to do it, IMO. Let alone the fact that there aren't many guys they can throw in to up the trade value... I'm guess a trade is made for a reliever or established 2B, using guys like Oliver and Strieby.

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EDIT: and I'm not a 100% sure that Porcello won't be traded this winter.

Agreed, though this would have been far more likely back in July. An 81 win team shouldn't be trading guys like this. If they do I'll be pretty annoyed.

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I didn't say you were, just that it seemed that way because you inform us of this prediction every day it seems. That's just your style though. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Its what makes you Benke! :rambo:

I wasn't trying to be a jerk, it just cracks me up when people ask others to name names.

And I am a huge fan of Eric and his postings, but that's impossible.

We'll see what happens, but I think there are plenty of moves to be made, not just one or two.

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An 81 win team shouldn't be trading guys like this.

I totally agree, but it also depends on what you get. Depends on other moves you make that compliment said trade.

DD has his work cut out for him this winter, that's for sure. He's got to deliver -- something!

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I can't speak for anyone else, but all I'm saying it that I think it is worth it to the Tigs to make an offer serious enough to at least one guy (and I would say Werth), that he will have to take it seriously.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tigers ended up with one of Werth, Crawford, or Dunn. The thing that gets me is that some people assume that not only will they get one of those highly sought after free agents, but that they'll also make a trade for a #3 hitter.

Let's just take a look around baseball and find guys who qualify for that sort of spot who play positions that aren't blocked by the Tigers. 1B and CF are the obvious ones but you have to remember with signing one of those free agents you're going to have one of LF, RF, or DH blocked. Plus with Inge all but signed 3B is effectively blocked. So we're looking for a middle of the order type bat who plays C, 2B, SS, or an outfield corner. Let's look, and use and .850 OPS from the 2010 season as the minimum:

(EDIT - my criteria for "not available" was if a guy is signed to a deal so attractive to the team he's already on that they couldn't trade him, and if they did it wouldn't be for Turner and Oliver. I understand that most commodities are up for grabs but for lots of these guys the offer would need to be bigger than what the Tigers can offer. Yes, it's speculation, but it's something a bit more substantial than "theyll make a trade i feel it maybe too of em" ten times a day.)

Crawford: FA

Hanley: not available; even if available, not available to the Tigers

Rolen: fat, old

Wright: 3B, not likely available

Butler: 1B, not likely available

Andre Ethier: decent option, probably not available

Howard: 1B, fat, old, not available

Rasmus: good option, only available if LaRussa gets too fed up with him

Hart: decent option, not available, flukey year

Johnson: fluke season to end all fluke seasons

Braun: not available

Swisher: good option, not likely available

Mauer: not available

Fielder: 1B/DH, not available to the Tigers

Uggla: decent option, but future 1B, awful defense

Longoria: not available

Choo: good option, not likely available, military thing

Huff: been there

Dunn: FA

Zimmerman: not likely available

Ortiz: old, fat, douchey, Red Sock

Scott: decent option, possibly available, almost strictly DH

A Gonzalez: 1B

Cano: not available

Beltre: FA

Werth: FA

Holliday: not available, too expensive

Tulowitzki: not available

C Gonzalez: not available

Konerko: tolerable option, old, 1B/DH, FA

Bautista: not available

Pujols: not available

Votto: not available

Cabrera: dur

Hamilton: not available

So by my reckoning, of the guys who hit .850 or better this season, the only ones who might possibly be available in a trade that would fit on the Tigers would be: Ethier, possibly Rasmus but probably not, possibly Swisher but probably not, Uggla who would play brutal defense, and Scott.

That took me ten minutes to look up and compile. Which of them do you like, Benke?

EDIT 2 - Maybe you don't like my criteria, either. It was arbitrary. But it was something to generate a list of names rather than some vague notion like a mythical #3 hitter on a team that matches up well with the Tigers in a trade. I think Magglio will be sufficient enough to bring back provided they get one bat. I think he can be the second bat you're talking about, Benke. I also think it's a lot more realistic to look at it that way.

Edited by Eric Cioe

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I'd rather the Tigers sign another starting pitcher than anything else. We still need to protect Cabrera, but our rotation has to improve. We can't go into the season with three question marks in the rotation, as good as Verlander and Scherzer are. Coke, Porcello, and Gallaraga scare me. And who knows if Oliver will be ready.

I say we go all-out on a SP (hopefully Lee), resign Magglio for cheaper, and hope that a Raburn/Boesch platoon can at least hold its own in LF. If we still have any money left after this, go after Dunn and bat him fifth, and use Guillen to fill in at 2B if he's healthy.

The only thing we have as trade bait is young pitching, which we are going to need down the road (possibly next year).

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That took me ten minutes to look up and compile. Which of them do you like, Benke?

We'll see what happens... A simple - I disagree, that would have worked too.

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We'll see what happens... A simple - I disagree, that would have worked too.

??? I was trying to continue the conversation is all. I'd think that someone who is so adamant you know a dozen times a day that the Tigers are going to make a big splash for a big hitter would be interested in taking a look at who that might be.

EDIT - It really bugs me in general when people make claims and then as soon as another poster questions them on it they turtle up and play like the other guy is some bad dude for bringing it up.

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I wouldn't be surprised ....

Good stuff Eric. Speaking of Ordonez, I suppose you saw today (Beck?) that Magglio was making nice to the Tigs in the media.

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??? I was trying to continue the conversation is all. I'd think that someone who is so adamant you know a dozen times a day that the Tigers are going to make a big splash for a big hitter would be interested in taking a look at who that might be.

EDIT - It really bugs me in general when people make claims and then as soon as another poster questions them on it they turtle up and play like the other guy is some bad dude for bringing it up.

Okay, but you listed a bunch of guys and smuggly passed 'em by with a mere "NOT AVAILABLE" :knocked:

When in fact, most of those guys .. aren't completely untouchable. You can't say unavailable, and so it's said.

I don't want to hear that Ryan Zimmerman can't be had, or that the hitter had to have hit #3 this year. What, so now only guys that hit #3 for their team this past season can count? That really doesn't make much sense to me, that's all.

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Okay, but you listed a bunch of guys and smuggly passed 'em by with a mere "NOT AVAILABLE" :knocked:

When in fact, most of those guys .. aren't completely untouchable. You can't say unavailable, and so it's said.

I don't want to hear that Ryan Zimmerman can't be had, or that the hitter had to have hit #3 this year. What, so now only guys that hit #3 for their team this past season can count? That really doesn't make much sense to me, that's all.

Zimmerman was just signed to a team friendly contract at the beginning of last season. He is the second best third basemen in baseball, 26 years old, and about to enter his prime. Franchise player. Why would they get rid of him?

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... or that the hitter had to have hit #3 this year. What, so now only guys that hit #3 for their team this past season can count? That really doesn't make much sense to me, that's all.

Maybe I mis-understood it, but I think Eric's list contained guys who had an OPS of 0.850 or greater, with the idea that an OPS of 0.850 would qualify one as a potential #3 hitter.

His larger point is that relatively few of those guys play a position that the Tigers want to upgrade and are likely available via trade with the pieces the Tigers have.

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Okay, but you listed a bunch of guys and smuggly passed 'em by with a mere "NOT AVAILABLE" :knocked:

When in fact, most of those guys .. aren't completely untouchable. You can't say unavailable, and so it's said.

I understand that. But I put some names out there to discuss. If you think that I'm wrong, say something in particular about one of them, rather than speaking in generalities about it. The point was that there is now a list of guys who are the sort of guys you're talking about trading for. No, it isn't the be-all, end-all list. But it's something rather than nothing. Now we can have discussions about certain players.

For example, like I said, I think Zimmerman is unavailable. You think he is. Throw Wheat posted a couple of reasons why he wouldn't be. Now we're actually discussing something in particular, with support from the facts in the world (team friendly contract, Washington's a team that's going to contend in 2012, etc etc), rather than discussing a vague generality ("there gonna make a big trade i can feel it" "no they aint they aint got the **** to do it" ad naseum).

or that the hitter had to have hit #3 this year. What, so now only guys that hit #3 for their team this past season can count? That really doesn't make much sense to me, that's all.

Yeah, I agree with you. That's really stupid to think that you can't change lineup positions from year to year. What sort of tyrant would think such a thing?

Not me. I never said that you had to hit #3 last season to hit #3 next season. I used .850 OPS as an arbitrary cutoff as the sort of guys who would logically be considered for the #3 spot in a lineup. Just like Biggs said. Yeah, there are guys on that list who wouldn't be #3 type hitters next season (Huff), and there are #3 type hitters that aren't on that list (Tex), but it's something to talk about rather than nothing.

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I just saw on the sidebar for SportsCenter a thing that said "Tigers decline slugger" but I didn't catch what it was about...could have not even been about the Tigers for all I know. Anyone have an idea?

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I just saw on the sidebar for SportsCenter a thing that said "Tigers decline slugger" but I didn't catch what it was about...could have not even been about the Tigers for all I know. Anyone have an idea?

I think the Tigers officially declined Magglio's option. Drucker tweeted it this morning too.

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I think the Tigs should make a good run at Beltre. He is a guy who could bat 3 or 5 and plays defense. They need bats that can play the field too. They should not let Inge get in the way of a legit two way player.

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I'd rather the Tigers sign another starting pitcher than anything else. We still need to protect Cabrera, but our rotation has to improve. We can't go into the season with three question marks in the rotation, as good as Verlander and Scherzer are. Coke, Porcello, and Gallaraga scare me. And who knows if Oliver will be ready.

I say we go all-out on a SP (hopefully Lee), resign Magglio for cheaper, and hope that a Raburn/Boesch platoon can at least hold its own in LF. If we still have any money left after this, go after Dunn and bat him fifth, and use Guillen to fill in at 2B if he's healthy.

Pursuing Lee would be nice but DD has already said they won't so lets move on. If Porcello, Gallaraga and Coke scare you, I can't tell you how depressing your other ideas are. Same players, same poor results. Magglio should be plan c or d and Guillen's name should only come up when discussing careers that have ended. The Tigers need two middle of the order hitters(not named Magglio or Guillen) one middle of the rotation or better SP and a couple of relievers. don't know if that'll happen or not but if it doesn't they'll be watching the playoffs again from in front of their tv like the rest of us.

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I think the Tigers officially declined Magglio's option. Drucker tweeted it this morning too.
Wonder if anyone took the sucker bet on that in Vegas, eh? :silly:

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Okay, but you listed a bunch of guys and smuggly passed 'em by with a mere "NOT AVAILABLE" :knocked:

When in fact, most of those guys .. aren't completely untouchable. You can't say unavailable, and so it's said.

I don't want to hear that Ryan Zimmerman can't be had, or that the hitter had to have hit #3 this year. What, so now only guys that hit #3 for their team this past season can count? That really doesn't make much sense to me, that's all.

Big+1. Total speculation based upon personal opinion, just like all the other total speculation that goes on here.

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Crawford: FA

Hanley: not available; even if available, not available to the Tigers

Rolen: fat, old

Wright: 3B, not likely available

Butler: 1B, not likely available

Andre Ethier: decent option, probably not available

Howard: 1B, fat, old, not available

Rasmus: good option, only available if LaRussa gets too fed up with him

Hart: decent option, not available, flukey year

Johnson: fluke season to end all fluke seasons

Braun: not available

Swisher: good option, not likely available

Mauer: not available

Fielder: 1B/DH, not available to the Tigers

Uggla: decent option, but future 1B, awful defense

Longoria: not available

Choo: good option, not likely available, military thing

Huff: been there

Dunn: FA

Zimmerman: not likely available

Ortiz: old, fat, douchey, Red Sock

Scott: decent option, possibly available, almost strictly DH

A Gonzalez: 1B

Cano: not available

Beltre: FA

Werth: FA

Holliday: not available, too expensive

Tulowitzki: not available

C Gonzalez: not available

Konerko: tolerable option, old, 1B/DH, FA

Bautista: not available

Pujols: not available

Votto: not available

Cabrera: dur

Hamilton: not available

Excellent work Cloe. Outside of the 0.850 OPS qualifier....I think Matt Kemp might be a viable target. He doesn't posses the plate discipline I like to see....but DD clearly doesn't focus on it.

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Big+1. Total speculation based upon personal opinion, just like all the other total speculation that goes on here.

But it's based on stuff like: position, length of contract, how recently he was signed to a contract, etc. It's speculative, like I said, but it's at least provided some names to talk about rather than the nothing that some here want to discuss.

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The Tigers are going to make a blockbuster this winter. I can feel it. It's going to involve a fat old untouchable outfielder.

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Excellent work Cloe. Outside of the 0.850 OPS qualifier....I think Matt Kemp might be a viable target. He doesn't posses the plate discipline I like to see....but DD clearly doesn't focus on it.

Matt Kemp would be a great addition to the team. He might be available given his circumstances this season and the way that the Dodgers seemingly got fed up with him.

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Eric - I'm not trying to be your villain here, just stating on what I think will happen.

I think we'll add two new bats, re-sign Maggs .. which will give us a nice 1-5, heart of the lineup.

The bottom four would then be - Peralta, Inge, Avila, Sizemore/Rhymes. That's a pretty good offense.

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