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Dunkin Darvin

Off-season moves starting to take shape

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I'm not saying he's a fluke , I'm saying he is what he is and that if you get him out of Philly and in Detroit you are probably looking at a guy who hits .270 20-25 hr 70 walks and 150 K's. Yeah, that's an upgrade but I don't think it's worth the cost.

+2.5

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Neither Granderson nor Damon was a Venezualan national hero.

Should we take that as satirical or serious?

There is an excellent chance that by the end of Spring Training, Cabby will be the only Venezuelan on the active roster and he will have a long time to get over it before his contract is up again - so if the answer was serious, I've missed why.

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Werth is not worth the money he'll want nor get. Dunn is a huge upgrade, and worth the price.

Dunn + another big bat, most likely via trade + 1 or 2 new SPs and 2 new RPs, and that'd be a successful off season.

Trades are going to be key, as will picking up and signing the right free agents.

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You think adding more than one bat is unrealistic?

I think adding more than one bat is realistic, but it depends on what we're talking about. Dunn + Werth, not realistic. Other than those two, Maggs may be as good a hitter in 2011 as anyone else out there for well less than $10 million.

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By that rationale, since Werth hits .328 with the bases empty, and the Tigers have a weaker line-up, he should get more hits in Detroit, not less. :cheeky:

Seriously, using a single season's worth of RISP vs. batting with the bases empty to make a point about the value of a player in the future means little, if anything. There are plenty of ways, much better / useful / accurate ways, to argue Werth's worth as a free agent (or lack thereof) than to cite batting average with RISP in 2010.

I understand that Bigglesworth and I pointed out a few others as well , I will say that using a single seasons worth of anything when talking about this particular player means a little more than with some others because the guy has only 2 full time healthy seasons under his belt. So, you're essentially talking about half of his career, as a full time player.

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Dunn + Werth, not realistic.

I agree, and wouldn't want that anyway...

I think, in order to have a successful off season, we're going to have to make a bunch of moves. A slew of small moves, that makes it easier to pull off a major trade. Smaller moves makes it easier to trade Rick Porcello and/or Jacob Turner for a big bat, to go alongside Dunn (who would be my top free agent target). I'd give him a very nice contract!

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Werth is not worth the money he'll want nor get. Dunn is a huge upgrade, and worth the price.

Dunn + another big bat, most likely via trade + 1 or 2 new SPs and 2 new RPs, and that'd be a successful off season.

Trades are going to be key, as will picking up and signing the right free agents.

What I think someone else said. I like Dunn, Ordonez, a starter (Lilly?), and honestly I'd just take one reliever to replace Phillip Coca Cola.

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Are people assuming the Tigers have literally a 0% chance of signing Crawford, or do you guys simply like Dunn and/or Werth more? To me, Crawford's the FA offensive prize, and the one worth overpaying for.

Now, if I could get Dunn and Worth combined for just a bit more than what it would cost for Crawford, that's another story, but I don't think that'll be the case. Crawford will probably get the biggest deal, but they're all going to get paid in this FA OF market.

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What I think someone else said. I like Dunn, Ordonez...

And I'll keep saying it - if that's your offensive upgrade, you had a horrific off season!

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I don't think Dunn and Ordonez would be a horrible upgrade offensively (Maggs isn't an upgrade really, since he was already here), but it would be a horrible combination from a defensive standpoint since they're both best suited for DH. I've seen a lot of talk about the Tigers' lack of 2-way players the past few months and I agree, and neither of these guys bring that dimension. This is one of the reasons why I like Crawford a lot and why I'd rate a Werth signing higher than Dunn.

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I understand that Bigglesworth and I pointed out a few others as well , I will say that using a single seasons worth of anything when talking about this particular player means a little more than with some others because the guy has only 2 full time healthy seasons under his belt. So, you're essentially talking about half of his career, as a full time player.

What a guy's batting average with RISP happens to be for a single season appears to have little bearing on what he will hit with RISP next season. That was my point.

Batting average with RISP tends to be a stat that appears to be variable on a season to season basis. So I personally wouldn't use it as a measure, even very partially, to evaluate anyone's future performance, unless someone has a sustained record (say 4 or 5 seasons) of doing poorly or well in the stat.

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I don't think Dunn and Ordonez would be a horrible upgrade offensively (Maggs isn't an upgrade really, since he was already here), but it would be a horrible combination from a defensive standpoint since they're both best suited for DH. I've seen a lot of talk about the Tigers' lack of 2-way players the past few months and I agree, and neither of these guys bring that dimension. This is one of the reasons why I like Crawford a lot and why I'd rate a Werth signing higher than Dunn.

Werth is only better is Dunns on the field, and if he comes he he won't be on the field.

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I don't think Dunn and Ordonez would be a horrible upgrade offensively (Maggs isn't an upgrade really, since he was already here), but it would be a horrible combination from a defensive standpoint since they're both best suited for DH. I've seen a lot of talk about the Tigers' lack of 2-way players the past few months and I agree, and neither of these guys bring that dimension. This is one of the reasons why I like Crawford a lot and why I'd rate a Werth signing higher than Dunn.

Ordonez -- Cabrera -- Dunn = A debilitating quantity of station to station on the bases and a 37 yr old RF coming off a bad ankle? No thanks.

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Are people assuming the Tigers have literally a 0% chance of signing Crawford, or do you guys simply like Dunn and/or Werth more? To me, Crawford's the FA offensive prize, and the one worth overpaying for.

I disagree because Carl's skill set is one that has been shown historically to start to decline significantly in the age range he is now entering.

I will grant that just because most players start to lose their ability to use their speed effectively at the age Carl will be at shortly does not mean Crawford will necessarily follow the same career arc, but it isn't a bet I would advocate, let alone overpay for.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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Werth is only better is Dunns on the field, and if he comes he he won't be on the field.

Right, leaving a gap in the field either way. If I have a lot of money to spend and need hitting, I'm not targeting a DH; I'm targeting a 2-way player (or players) who can help me hit and field.

Not saying I wouldn't like Dunn as a hitter - but he wouldn't be my first FA choice.

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Werth is only better is Dunns on the field, and if he comes he he won't be on the field.

Team still needs a RF. Are you going to plan on a 37 yr old coming off a broken ankle being able to hold it down? Boesch? Wells? At this point those two can't carry Werth's jock.

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Right, leaving a gap in the field either way. If I have a lot of money to spend and need hitting, I'm not targeting a DH; I'm targeting a 2-way player (or players) who can help me hit and field.

Not saying I wouldn't like Dunn as a hitter - but he wouldn't be my first FA choice.

The Tigers need at least an OF and a DH.

If Dunn would agree to be DH, it would be a big improvement to the offense.

I want two-way players very much, but there typically aren't many in FA classes, and this one is no different.

If forced to choose between Dunn as a DH or Werth as an OF for the same cost + contract length...I'd probably go with Dunn because I think he is more consistent, less likely to crap out, but it would be close. That written, I don't think Dunn will want to DH, and it's hard to know what demand each of these players will have for their services.

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You guys argue about statistic far too much

Well, if the stats are too complex, you can look at the graphics I gave you links to. Half of Dunn's HRs at home last yr would have been to dealth valley at COPA. If he can't run and he can't field and 430 to the corners of the CF wall at COPA takes away his HRs, what exactly is Dunn so good for?

EDIT: and aside from the DH thing, don't think that CF at COPA is not a big reason he wouldn't sign here anyway.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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The Tigers need at least an OF and a DH.

Yes, no doubt. I've just always believed (even after this year) that productive DHs can be found on the relative cheap or from within.

Instead of committing so many dollars and years to a guy like Dunn, I'd just as soon go with a lower-cost, shorter-term guy like Thome or maybe even Branyan (or Ordonez or Damon). I'd aim my big offers towards 2-way players (yes, supply is short) and starting pitching.

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Well, if the stats are too complex, you can look at the graphics I gave you links to. Half of Dunn's HRs at home last yr would have been to dealth valley at COPA. If he can't run and he can't field and 430 to the corners of the CF wall at COPA takes away his HRs, what exactly is Dunn so good for?

EDIT: and aside from the DH thing, don't think that CF at COPA is not a big reason he wouldn't sign here anyway.

They play 81 on the road..

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It's foolish to compare parks just based on outfield dimensions, too. Air currents and temperatures and elevation and all kinds of other stuff comes into play.

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