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Plenty of people agree with me. It's just only acceptable to disagree with me.
Certainly many agree with you all over the country. But to think it is unacceptable to agree with you is the biggest ego trip you have been on. In this forum you faced those who don't feel the same as you and you can't handle it. Keep on your bigotry and anger and enjoy your rewards. Somehow as I look toward the future and see the homeless, I will remember you. Quite a legacy.

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Plenty of people agree with me. It's just only acceptable to disagree with me.

Oh, please. You posted an opinion on the internets. Many here disagreed and shared their opinions in response to your opinion. You're not the noble crusading knight for the round table of privileged white suburban males.

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Wow... you came back just to post this, blue? Okay. I'll address this but then I'm going to bed and won't be able to reply again until late tomorrow (around this time, prob after downtime) so don't think I'm hitting-and-running here. Though to be honest I feel I have made my position on this matter pretty clear and I'm not sure your posting is worth the effort of reply.

a lot of you people need to WAKE THE **** UP!!!

That's an interesting way to start a persuasive argument. Not very effective, however. I wonder if Buddha, Shabba, Mark, or any of the other attorneys who happen to post here have ever tried this as an opening statement during court proceedings. They haven't. The point is that it doesn't go over well there and it also doesn't go over well here where everyone reading your post are all at least reasonably educated, at least reasonably intelligent, and 100% fully awake.

#1) Pan-handling should be ILLEGAL. Begging for money should be ILLEGAL.

Illegal... why? Because it makes you uncomfortable when a stranger asks for charity? Pan-handling IS illegal in lot of the parts of the country. People in these areas still panhandle - I wonder why? I'm going to go with "this is the best option available to those who do it to make a living." Do we need more laws restricting the activities of the downtrodden? Why don't we just legislate against it and then use city resources to jack-boot them off the streets around Comerica. Oh wait that's right -- Detroit doesn't really have the manpower or resources to do that, and moreso if made illegal they'd have to arrest and incarcerate for it and -- you guessed it -- there's no room in the jails in Detroit for something like that.

If you are truly in need of food, clothing, shelter, etc...there are more than enough government facilities around that will provide you with all the basic necessities.

Wrong. The programs are stretched pretty thin actually and finding enough help to matter for a person who has no home or means of income is very difficult for some and impossible for others. Go to the soup kitchen, you say? Okay - how do they get there when they "live" a good distance away? Do they go to DHS to try to get assistance - a bus pass or something? Okay - how do they get there? How do they call DHS to set up an appointment? Communications and transportation is a barrier to getting proper care, and even if those burdens did not exist there STILL wouldn't be enough funds to go around.

It's pretty clear to me that MOST of you talking crap to me about not being more understanding of the homeless haven't spent much time around them, if any. Like the poster who worked with the homeless in Kalamazoo, I too have spent a lot of time in that city.

I have no experience with the homeless in Kalamazoo. I do, however, have experience with the homeless in the towns of Ann Arbor and San Francisco as I was actually a homeless person at points during my colorful youth in those cities. To make it even worse I was just a kid - a kid with nowhere to go. I panhandled for 8-12 hours a day. Sure, I used some of the money to buy cigarettes (a comfort I allowed myself) but I spent the rest of what I made on food and saving up for a bus ticket to get the hell out of there. I never bought drugs with the money. I never bought alcohol with it. It wasn't just me who lived like that either - there were a lot of people who panhandled the same ares that I did who also saved their money. Especially in San Francisco on the Haight and in the GGP where there are so many homeless children.

Here is how the typical day of a homeless person in Kalamazoo goes:

So - you're professing to be an expert on the macro-sociological behaviors of a subset of people you don't interact with directly just because you live in a town where this subset is and see a group of them performing certain routine activities? How much case study have you done with these people in Kalamazoo? Oh that's right none - this is all based on your limited empirical experiences with them outside of a few local business and the public library. Got it. If I'm wrong and you're some sort of sociology whiz who's put the hundreds of hours into studying the homeless population of that region, then I apologize. I also, however, ask that you properly cite your documented research so that I may also be able to examine your scientific findings. Oh right - I forgot - you pulled all that out of your crapper using broad strokes and callous generalizations. I'm not sure if that qualifies you as a bigot (though it's debatable) but I do think it qualifies you as someone who doesn't spend a lot of time thinking beyond the surface of your own (misguided) opinions.

Look, a lot homeless guys are mentally ill. That's sad. But me, or you, giving them money for cigarettes, drugs, alcohol isn't going to help them get back on their feet. It's only going to bury them down further. The shelters give them everything they really NEED. If you really care about the homeless, STOP giving them change. You're nothing but an enabler, all you're really doing is making their lives worse...but...at least you get to feel charitable, right?

So even though I spoke above about my own experiences as a homeless person and tried to illustrate that not everyone who panhandles uses the funds for cigarettes and alcohol (legal items by the way) or drugs, I'm going to step away from that here and go back to my earlier assertion a few posts up that panhandling should be looked at as an occupation and panhandlers should be entitled to spend the consideration from their chosen profession in any way they see fit. It's pretty draconian to suggest otherwise, actually. Let's consider Dictionary.com's definition of the word "occupation" for a second:

a person's usual or principal work or business, esp. as a means of earning a living; vocation

So what you're saying is not only should a person's ability to earn a living be outlawed (in places it isn't already) but the people who have that occupation should only use the money for certain things. I will defer to my earlier point where I asked if you would like it if your employer (if you have one, which I somehow doubt as I think you're just a kid) told you that you could not use your paycheck for Internet access because you act like a clueless d-bag on message boards. As I asserted before, I don't think you'd be too pleased with that.

Transitional homeless guys, down on their luck for whatever reason, don't usually beg. They live at the shelters. Use the job service programs. Use the public libraries. Look for work there. Eat the free meals. Use the showers. Sleep in the free beds. And then they get back out there with the rest of us. These guys are on and off the streets. The services are there for people who really want to not be homeless.

I addressed this already with my assertion that there is not enough to go around in terms of social programs for the homeless (especially in Detroit!) I will however neither agree or disagree with this and just ask once again to see your published research paper or case studies to back up what you're claiming here. I will note, however, at your use of the phrase "use the public libraries" when before in your EXACT SAME post you said that the homeless (and I quote) "head over to the really, really nice public library. goof around on the internet, read magazines or whatever for 6 or so hours." So... it's okay for SOME homeless people to use the library but not others? I thought the "typical" homeless person in Kalamazoo just goofed off there? You can't have it both ways. How do we differentiate between a "good" homeless person and a "bad" one? Should we maybe give them different colored shirts? Something tells me the color is already a factor for you anyway. I know - let's give them all drug tests and breathalizer tests every day! Surely there's money for that too, right? Morality be damned - let's just drug test them all and have a government employee decide who is and who is not worthy to go to the library. Jerk.

There as a final paragraph where you called the homeless who weren't mentally ill "scum bags" and said again that panhandling should be illegal. More stupidity, and really I've already addressed it and need to go to bed. I would like to close my statement by saying this though -- never before has a poster made assertions on this board that have incensed me as much as your posts in this thread. Not even that one time 5 years ago that shabba called my kids white trash. You talk as if these people are subhuman. That lack of compassion for other human beings makes you, in my mind, subhuman. The idiotic lineup threads were dumb enough, but here you've really outed yourself as a first class idiot and d-bag supreme. I'm sure MWG or Obs or someone is going to PM me a fingerwag for this last part but it's worth it -- you have a lot of growing up to do, and you really really really really should consider where you're posting and the userbase of this message board. It's a good board because it's a higher level of discourse. Even the left vs. right stuff here is (usually) civil and intelligent. Your assertions in your post, however, are all horribly wrong. I wish you would have gotten banned for good. No one likes you and you KNOW it. That should tell you all you need to know right there, buddy. In short - Lurk more, post less. You'll do well here, or at least you'll do better than you have thus far.

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Is this the sort of stuff that they teach in public schools today? Or did you learn this firsthand from your hard-knock white upper middle class suburban struggle?

iceLFI1104_468x762.jpg

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Plenty of people agree with me. It's just only acceptable to disagree with me.

I totally agree with you here. Plenty of people do agree with you... in fact, just about everyone who's wrong on this issue agrees with you.

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Walk by them and ignore them.

I did that for eleven years commuting into Boston. Occasionally, if it was like zero degrees and the guy looked really down and out, I'd give him something. For the most part though, I just completely ignored them and it worked. Sometimes I wished I could do more but unless you're in a position to help them in a meaningful way, then there's not much you can do. I would think outside a stadium, it's pretty easy to ignore them because once you go by them, they'll quickly find another person to ask.

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this is all based on your limited empirical experiences with them outside of ... the public library.

Something tells me outside of one is about the extent of his experience with libraries.

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speaking of Libraries, a good friend of mine does sales. Home office, travels a lot to customer sites across the midwest. Many times he's parked at a Lowe's, Meijer, etc. just sitting there on conference calls or doing paper work. The problem is, when you have to take a dump. He says the best places are car dealerships and Libraries. Facilities are clean and they never hassle you.

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Blue – you have a tremendous opportunity here. Instead of being the horse’s butt everyone here thinks you are, what kind of a worldwide hero could you become if you solved homelessness? Everyone would read about you in future history books. Freaking huge task – beyond enormous. Impossible – no. Am I serious – absolutely. This would have to be a lifetime pursuit though, your legacy.

How to begin? No clue but if you put your efforts into that as much as you have in this thread, I bet you could get a decent running start. Maybe start a not-for-profit commission or task force. Start small in your own community. In the immortal words of Dr. Leo Marvin – “Baby steps”. Gain small successes. What type of efforts have all ready been tried. Find out what works and what does not. Then expand into neighboring cities.

Maybe this is your calling?? Your purpose in life. What kind of a man do you want to be? Pray about it. You have my support. I bet most of the Motownsports family would be of assistance also.

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x29780818.jpg

Holy Crap, I think I know that guy.

I totally agree with you here. Plenty of people do agree with you... in fact, just about everyone who's wrong on this issue agrees with you.

Bravo.

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Blue – you have a tremendous opportunity here. Instead of being the horse’s butt everyone here thinks you are, what kind of a worldwide hero could you become if you solved homelessness? Everyone would read about you in future history books. Freaking huge task – beyond enormous. Impossible – no. Am I serious – absolutely. This would have to be a lifetime pursuit though, your legacy.

How to begin? No clue but if you put your efforts into that as much as you have in this thread, I bet you could get a decent running start. Maybe start a not-for-profit commission or task force. Start small in your own community. In the immortal words of Dr. Leo Marvin – “Baby steps”. Gain small successes. What type of efforts have all ready been tried. Find out what works and what does not. Then expand into neighboring cities.

Maybe this is your calling?? Your purpose in life. What kind of a man do you want to be? Pray about it. You have my support. I bet most of the Motownsports family would be of assistance also.

not likely.

there is no solution to homelessness. no matter how prosperous the world as a whole becomes, there will always be individuals who chose not to work, to contribute to society. but, the way things are going, they'll eventually be pan-handling in tax-payer polo's.

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Wow... you came back just to post this, blue? Okay. I'll address this but then I'm going to bed and won't be able to reply again until late tomorrow (around this time, prob after downtime) so don't think I'm hitting-and-running here. Though to be honest I feel I have made my position on this matter pretty clear and I'm not sure your posting is worth the effort of reply.

That's an interesting way to start a persuasive argument. Not very effective, however. I wonder if Buddha, Shabba, Mark, or any of the other attorneys who happen to post here have ever tried this as an opening statement during court proceedings. They haven't. The point is that it doesn't go over well there and it also doesn't go over well here where everyone reading your post are all at least reasonably educated, at least reasonably intelligent, and 100% fully awake.

Illegal... why? Because it makes you uncomfortable when a stranger asks for charity? Pan-handling IS illegal in lot of the parts of the country. People in these areas still panhandle - I wonder why? I'm going to go with "this is the best option available to those who do it to make a living." Do we need more laws restricting the activities of the downtrodden? Why don't we just legislate against it and then use city resources to jack-boot them off the streets around Comerica. Oh wait that's right -- Detroit doesn't really have the manpower or resources to do that, and moreso if made illegal they'd have to arrest and incarcerate for it and -- you guessed it -- there's no room in the jails in Detroit for something like that.

Wrong. The programs are stretched pretty thin actually and finding enough help to matter for a person who has no home or means of income is very difficult for some and impossible for others. Go to the soup kitchen, you say? Okay - how do they get there when they "live" a good distance away? Do they go to DHS to try to get assistance - a bus pass or something? Okay - how do they get there? How do they call DHS to set up an appointment? Communications and transportation is a barrier to getting proper care, and even if those burdens did not exist there STILL wouldn't be enough funds to go around.

I have no experience with the homeless in Kalamazoo. I do, however, have experience with the homeless in the towns of Ann Arbor and San Francisco as I was actually a homeless person at points during my colorful youth in those cities. To make it even worse I was just a kid - a kid with nowhere to go. I panhandled for 8-12 hours a day. Sure, I used some of the money to buy cigarettes (a comfort I allowed myself) but I spent the rest of what I made on food and saving up for a bus ticket to get the hell out of there. I never bought drugs with the money. I never bought alcohol with it. It wasn't just me who lived like that either - there were a lot of people who panhandled the same ares that I did who also saved their money. Especially in San Francisco on the Haight and in the GGP where there are so many homeless children.

So - you're professing to be an expert on the macro-sociological behaviors of a subset of people you don't interact with directly just because you live in a town where this subset is and see a group of them performing certain routine activities? How much case study have you done with these people in Kalamazoo? Oh that's right none - this is all based on your limited empirical experiences with them outside of a few local business and the public library. Got it. If I'm wrong and you're some sort of sociology whiz who's put the hundreds of hours into studying the homeless population of that region, then I apologize. I also, however, ask that you properly cite your documented research so that I may also be able to examine your scientific findings. Oh right - I forgot - you pulled all that out of your crapper using broad strokes and callous generalizations. I'm not sure if that qualifies you as a bigot (though it's debatable) but I do think it qualifies you as someone who doesn't spend a lot of time thinking beyond the surface of your own (misguided) opinions.

So even though I spoke above about my own experiences as a homeless person and tried to illustrate that not everyone who panhandles uses the funds for cigarettes and alcohol (legal items by the way) or drugs, I'm going to step away from that here and go back to my earlier assertion a few posts up that panhandling should be looked at as an occupation and panhandlers should be entitled to spend the consideration from their chosen profession in any way they see fit. It's pretty draconian to suggest otherwise, actually. Let's consider Dictionary.com's definition of the word "occupation" for a second:

So what you're saying is not only should a person's ability to earn a living be outlawed (in places it isn't already) but the people who have that occupation should only use the money for certain things. I will defer to my earlier point where I asked if you would like it if your employer (if you have one, which I somehow doubt as I think you're just a kid) told you that you could not use your paycheck for Internet access because you act like a clueless d-bag on message boards. As I asserted before, I don't think you'd be too pleased with that.

I addressed this already with my assertion that there is not enough to go around in terms of social programs for the homeless (especially in Detroit!) I will however neither agree or disagree with this and just ask once again to see your published research paper or case studies to back up what you're claiming here. I will note, however, at your use of the phrase "use the public libraries" when before in your EXACT SAME post you said that the homeless (and I quote) "head over to the really, really nice public library. goof around on the internet, read magazines or whatever for 6 or so hours." So... it's okay for SOME homeless people to use the library but not others? I thought the "typical" homeless person in Kalamazoo just goofed off there? You can't have it both ways. How do we differentiate between a "good" homeless person and a "bad" one? Should we maybe give them different colored shirts? Something tells me the color is already a factor for you anyway. I know - let's give them all drug tests and breathalizer tests every day! Surely there's money for that too, right? Morality be damned - let's just drug test them all and have a government employee decide who is and who is not worthy to go to the library. Jerk.

There as a final paragraph where you called the homeless who weren't mentally ill "scum bags" and said again that panhandling should be illegal. More stupidity, and really I've already addressed it and need to go to bed. I would like to close my statement by saying this though -- never before has a poster made assertions on this board that have incensed me as much as your posts in this thread. Not even that one time 5 years ago that shabba called my kids white trash. You talk as if these people are subhuman. That lack of compassion for other human beings makes you, in my mind, subhuman. The idiotic lineup threads were dumb enough, but here you've really outed yourself as a first class idiot and d-bag supreme. I'm sure MWG or Obs or someone is going to PM me a fingerwag for this last part but it's worth it -- you have a lot of growing up to do, and you really really really really should consider where you're posting and the userbase of this message board. It's a good board because it's a higher level of discourse. Even the left vs. right stuff here is (usually) civil and intelligent. Your assertions in your post, however, are all horribly wrong. I wish you would have gotten banned for good. No one likes you and you KNOW it. That should tell you all you need to know right there, buddy. In short - Lurk more, post less. You'll do well here, or at least you'll do better than you have thus far.

bum.

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not likely.

there is no solution to homelessness. no matter how prosperous the world as a whole becomes, there will always be individuals who chose not to work, to contribute to society. but, the way things are going, they'll eventually be pan-handling in tax-payer polo's.

Can't blame you for saying no, it would be a life changing challenge.

There is a solution to homelessness, no one has discovered it yet.

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I am far more worried about officials robbing Detroit sports teams than I am worried about being mugged by a bum when I go to watch those sports teams.

We certainly have had a rough string of calls against lately. Just doesnt seem like the officials are handing Detroit teams any breaks.

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no matter how prosperous the world as a whole becomes, there will always be individuals who chose not to work, to contribute to society.

And that, right there, is the best insight into Blue we've had. In his opinion the homeless are mostly there simply because they choose not to work.

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You did?

I expected atleast 3 run-on sentences disputing the argument. I guess I got my hopes up.

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not likely.

there is no solution to homelessness. no matter how prosperous the world as a whole becomes, there will always be individuals who chose not to work, to contribute to society. but, the way things are going, they'll eventually be pan-handling in tax-payer polo's.

And what exactly do you do to contribute to society?:confused:

Would you feel better if panhandlers had to first submit fictitious lineups?

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And what exactly do you do to contribute to society?:confused:

Would you feel better if panhandlers had to first submit fictitious lineups?

+1, Hilarious. Just a great comment.

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