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Zumaya injury...

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yeah..my bad..i meant especially for 2006. and every moment hes been healthy...he should be immortal to us all..he is the exception..hes just not your average reliever..but no one should be expected to serve any such expectations, when you hurl 100 mph fast balls, and dominate mlb hitters the way Joel has when hes had the opportunity..again..best wishes and prayers to one of the most exciting pitchers ive ever had the honor to watch...he desreves a special place in Tigers history, if not our hearts, just because he has given us everything he has...and after the smoke clears, and his arm recovers, i really do believe, we havnt seen the last of Mr. zoom, our modern day, totally mortal, but at times, superhuman..superman.

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Supposing it is a ruptured tendon, what does it mean as far as surgery/recovery/physical therapy/etc.? I imagine he'd be gone for at least the rest of the season, if not much longer. Is there still a chance he could recover (pitching wise) from that kind of injury? Or is this a career-ending kind of injury for a pitcher? Just curious.

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You do wonder if the guy would have just thrown 95 or 96.

Almost every pitch around 100 most times.

At 100 you are always on the edge of a blow-out.

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Well, say bye-bye to any trades to Arizona involving BP arms.

This is really too bad. Joel was well on his way to having a great comeback season.

Brendan Wise, FTW!

Edited by DontGotSheed

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Classic inverted W delivery catches up to yet another pitcher. There simply was no way he could sustain that speed with that delivery. Sorry to see him go but was not at all surprised. Very nasty to watch though.

Is this what you mean?

p960001745-5.jpg

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everything I've ever heard/seen/read says the human arm isn't designed to throw anything, so I don't believe him throwing 95 instead of 100 is really going to lower his chance of being hurt. Dave Draveck, Tom Browning are two guys who barely threw 90 and both had arms just break while pitching. Elbows blow out on a regular basis for pitchers at all levels, it's just the nature of the position

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I'm glad I went to bed in the 5th. I can't bring myself to watch the video of it. Hope he's able to come back - & if not, live the rest of his life pain free.

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Awful stuff... now the question is what do they do with his roster spot and who becomes the 8th inning guy? Sborz can be called back up because even though it hasn't been 10 days, it's an injury situation. After his outing last week, I'm not so sure. They might go with Schlereth, since they need some electricity out there. Other options might be Fien or Wise. I think they should even consider Porcello as the 8th inning guy if he pitches well tonight. I would imagine Coke gets moved to 8th inning duties then there are a lot of question marks for 7th inning... bonine, gonzalez, thomas?

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Awful stuff... now the question is what do they do with his roster spot and who becomes the 8th inning guy? Sborz can be called back up because even though it hasn't been 10 days, it's an injury situation. After his outing last week, I'm not so sure. They might go with Schlereth, since they need some electricity out there. Other options might be Fien or Wise. I think they should even consider Porcello as the 8th inning guy if he pitches well tonight. I would imagine Coke gets moved to 8th inning duties then there are a lot of question marks for 7th inning... bonine, gonzalez, thomas?

Maybe Perry is ready to come off the DL. We can hope.

And if they waste a season of development for Porcello by tossing him into the bullpen DD and his staff should be fired.

If Perry isn't ready, you are probably rolling with Coke in the 8th and 7th inning by committee. This just means Ni is going to get an expanded role so I hope he gets his control problems figured out. I guess they'd recall Sborz again, hopefully with better success. Schlereth isn't ready IMO. He's got the stuff but he still doesn't have any control (8 walks in 10 innings in June, 26 walks in 34 innings overall). He's also got a WHIP of 1.60 so far in June, and the frightening thing is that it's his best monthly WHIP of the year. Not good.

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I agree on Schlereth not being ready, but management doesn't always think the same as fans. A lot of time they will look at stuff, rather than performance, especially when it comes to the pen and in particular this case where they have to replace a guy that throws 100 mph.

Porcello should be a starter, yes, but this could be an opportunity to keep his innings down. I'm not exactly for the idea, but if they can't find room for him in the rotation and he pitches well in Toledo, then it may be a consideration for the playoff push.

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i'm surprised with the Dave Dravecky, Joe Theisman talk, I didn't get that cringe at all watching the injury, the aftermath of the injury seemed worse than the actual "injury"

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The Twins broadcast guy Blyleven commented a batter before this happened, that Zumaya has been pretty much exclusively fastballs the past few games and hasn't thrown hardly any off speed pitches at all, which that did seem odd that Zumaya would only do fastballs and nothing else right now. I hope it wasn't a case where he did feel something out of sorts the past few games and didn't tell the trainers about it thinking he can man up or something like that.

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I just hope they have someone other than Lemos and Rand to view the MRI results.

Those guys will be wanting to rehab the horrible tear that happened last night when Zumaya heard his arm pop. That popping sound is when the ligament rips from the elbow, it's shreded like an onion today, no rehab possible unless those two are doing the evaluation.

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Is there even a best case scenario?

The best case scenario is that Zumaya has no pain tolerance and he's a drama queen and the incident was just an anomoly of pain he may have been experiencing the last few games...............I don't think this is the case even though (I'll get ripped for this one, just watch) I do think Zoom tends to have a low tolerance for pain and a high affinity for drama.

However, that incident last night didn't look good at all !..

I'm sure Lemos and Rand will bave a proper diagnosis by noon.

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While we're talking about replacement options, I guess this would be an opportunity to ask about Robbie Weinhardt's status. He was on the DL not too long ago, but had been sent to Connecticut for a rehab stint. I don't think he'd be the guy getting the call if Perry isn't reactivated, but does this Zoom injury scenario push him a step closer to getting a shot in Detroit?

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If you think about it, Zumaya throws a baseball about as fast as human limits will allow. Not many guys in the history of baseball have been able to consistently throw 100 MPH like he can. That's alot of stress on the elbow, shoulder, tendons, etc., so it's no wonder he is injury prone. Hopefully it's not as serious as it looks, but from the way he reacted, I'm expecting the worst.

He throws a 100MPH with a very violent motion, he is not real fluid when he throws which only increases the stress on body parts. He looks like he squeezes the hell out of the ball too...

Verlander hits triple digits and he is very fluid with his arm action.

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OK, folks, how about some prayers & concerns for Joel & family...until we hear the results of the MRI today...praying that is isn't as bad as it surely looked last night....

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I'll give my orthopaedic surgery perspective to try and clear a few things up. First, Dave Dravecky's injury was due to to having prior surgery on his humerus bone, weakening the bone and making it prone to fracture. I agree with the posters that said this looks the most like an acute UCL injury. Most UCL injuries in baseball players are a chronic stretching of the ligament, but I suppose in Zumaya's case, his high velocity could cause it to acutely rupture. It's also possible that some of his pain was coming from stretching of the ulnar nerve. The ulnar nerve runs right behind the elbow in the region of the ucl and would be susceptible to stretch when the elbow "opens up". That would explain the shaking of his arm b/c two of his fingers would have been numb. In addition, this could also be an injury of the flexor/pronator mass (think Troy Percival) as this muscle mass is also under high amounts of stress in pitchers. This would be a strange mechanism for a distal biceps injury and the way he was clutching his elbow made it look like it was unstable which would not be the case with a distal biceps. Those usually come from forcefully extending an arm that is trying to flex (the tire example is a pretty good one). In any event, none of these injuries are good and I would anticipate him being done for the season and likely longer. No one would try rehab for an acute UCL injury, people sometime try it in chronic b/c the ligament is still technically intact, just stretched. I guess we will all know soon enough.

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The best case scenario is that Zumaya has no pain tolerance and he's a drama queen and the incident was just an anomoly of pain he may have been experiencing the last few games...............I don't think this is the case even though (I'll get ripped for this one, just watch) I do think Zoom tends to have a low tolerance for pain and a high affinity for drama.

However, that incident last night didn't look good at all !..

I'm sure Lemos and Rand will bave a proper diagnosis by noon.

Well, you obviously like the attention because you're constantly setting yourself up for these types of reactions. Going all the way back to when you first joined.

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Man this sucks. My thoughts and prayers go out to you, big fella.

If indeed Joel's career has ended, I hope he gets listed in the Guinness Book

for the fastest pitch, if he's not in there already.

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Well, you obviously like the attention because you're constantly setting yourself up for these types of reactions. Going all the way back to when you first joined.

The truth sometimes hurts more than covering it with false statements, not here...I'll take it. Let's see where this pans out. I think no where close to Dravecky's injury which was much more than the pop of a ligament tearing from the elbow.

Zumaya's violence in his throwing motion encourages injury as has been well documented.

I fear for him mostly because of the individuals doing the initial evaluation of the MRI.

I pray for him that it's not career ending and I don't think it will be...........

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I fear for him mostly because of the individuals doing the initial evaluation of the MRI.

Huh?

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I watched the video on the at bat app. It didn't look that bad when it happened but the aftermath looked brutal. I don't understand all the career ending talk. I think he'll be back. I have no basis for this except that he is still young and career ending injuries are pretty rare, no?

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Agreed on all counts.

I wouldn't be shocked if Zumaya hung it up. It's just not fair the sort of stuff he's had to deal with.

EDIT - I just want to reiterate that Zumaya's fastball is the kind of pitch people will be talking about for as long as baseball is played. His career average fastball is 98.5. This season, it's over 99. Average. It's amazing. When people in 2050 are talking about baseball's legendary fastballs, it's going to be Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Joel Zumaya, and probably Stephen Strasburg.

All those guys except Zumaya are Hall of Famers (and Strasburg is in a 25-wait period to have his own ticket punched). But there are lots of guys in baseball history who threw legendarily hard that we barely remember and don't talk about anymore. Remember a guy named Matt Anderson? One hundred and three MPH in Phoenix. He was clocked at 100 lots of other times as well. No one is talking about him in the same vein as Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson. Another guy, Ryne Duren. Also known for his blazing fastball (and his coke bottle glasses). Anecdotally said to exceed 100 MPH regularly. Don't hear him mentioned much in the same breath as Koufax and Feller and Walter Johnson, either.

Of course, we Tiger fans will remember Zumaya for how hard he threw, and that he was part of the 06 AL Champs -- as well as the spectacular way he went down in yesterday's game. But outside of Detroit and in the long run, Zumaya will become merely a freak-show footnote with the likes of Duren, Anderson, Mark Wohlers, J.R. Richard, Billy Koch and Steve Dalkowski: guys who threw exceptionally hard and even had moderate success here and there, but never had a very good career for various reasons.

Edited by chasfh

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