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froggyvk

2011 NFL Draft

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I like Ayers. reminds me of Boss Bailey in that he is a great athlete playing football except he is a better football player than Boss.

Also, i don't think its just me but didn't Spivey(sp?) play tremendously better at the end of the year. I know he improved in tackling for sure. Even with a transition from being drafted as a corner and as a rookie switching to safety and making productive starts cannot be easy. if he didn't i would love to hear otherwise. My point being, if Spivey got better(again IMO a lot better) then why spend a high round pick on a safety. Get your LB, CB and OL in the first 4-5 rounds and pick up a WR late.

I think that's sort of what happened with drafttek.

Oh wait, I locked out CB on the assumption that we sign Asamugha! (:grin:)

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I'd rather have the Lions take the best DE available rather than Ayers.

Build the lines!!!!

In the end I probably agree with this. I'd take a guy like Bailey,Clayborn or Jordan there. Quinn falling would be ideal for me, but seems like he'll go higher.

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'd say Ayers is closer to JP than Sims. He's a big time boom or bust guy though. I don't see any "in between" with him.

I agree with this 100%. Although the only time I saw Ayers play this past season was against Texas. He did dominate in that game but its hard to tell what that means since Texas wasn't that good.

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Does the 20% include the placekicker?

No. I'm just talking about kickoff and punt coverage teams, touchdowns scored or given up, and field position.

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I normally don't like discussing trades in the draft on this message board (because invariably everyone wants to trade down for more picks) but I think so highly of Patrick Peterson that I am wondering what it would take to move up and get him. I will throw this out there with the disclaimer that I could be way off. Our first two draft picks, Jahvid Best, Cliff Avril, and potentially Shaun Hill (to a quarterback needy team) to move into the top 3 and draft Patrick Peterson. Too much? Too little? Thoughts?

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Way too much. It isn't worth it, some would say Akamura is the better CB prospect anyway. Haven't even been through the combines yet, who knows which guys will rise/fall based on their workouts.

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Way too much. It isn't worth it, some would say Akamura is the better CB prospect anyway. Haven't even been through the combines yet, who knows which guys will rise/fall based on their workouts.

Whoever says Amakumara is a better prospect is nuts. You can debate how good Peterson is but don't insult me by telling me there is a debate between Amakumara and Peterson.

My opinion on Peterson, and feel free to disagree with me about this...he is the best corner to come out since Deion Sanders.

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The Lions are not in a position to give up those picks and current contributing players for just one guy. They are better off to throw big bucks at a proven commodity that is going to be a free agent and get him for nothing other than a salary cap hit. If you take Peterson that high you are going to be paying him Asomugha money anyway so why not try for Asomugha and use that 13th pick on a LB?

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Truth is, the players really want there to be a season, which is why they've organized events like Let Us Play day and tried to really connect with the fans over the issue of the lockout.

Fan support means a lot to the players and they are fighting for a good cause here, so please show them some love. The NFL Lockout Facebook page has a whole bunch of info on it, so you can read in-depth just what the players want to accomplish.

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Truth is, the players really want there to be a season, which is why they've organized events like Let Us Play day and tried to really connect with the fans over the issue of the lockout.

Fan support means a lot to the players and they are fighting for a good cause here, so please show them some love. The NFL Lockout Facebook page has a whole bunch of info on it, so you can read in-depth just what the players want to accomplish.

B.S. The truth is the players want as much money as they can get, and these social programs are an attempt to use the fans to get that money. The players want much more than to simply play. The players are not fighting for a good cause, they are fighting for more money and less work.

They are just as bad as the owners.

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Whoever says Amakumara is a better prospect is nuts. You can debate how good Peterson is but don't insult me by telling me there is a debate between Amakumara and Peterson.

My opinion on Peterson, and feel free to disagree with me about this...he is the best corner to come out since Deion Sanders.

I think Prince is closer than you think, the thing that scares me a little about PP is his size, he's carrying about 20lbs too much to be an elite CB IMO...

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I just participated in a mock draft on another website for the Lions and managed to get Derek Sherrod (1st rnd), DeAndre McDaniel (2nd rnd), and Davon House (3rd rnd)...I'll take it.

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I think Prince is closer than you think, the thing that scares me a little about PP is his size, he's carrying about 20lbs too much to be an elite CB IMO...

He could stand to lose a little weight...I agree with you there. It would not surprise me at all if he struggled his rookie year before adapting to a lower playing weight. I still don't think Prince is close, even though I like him a lot also.

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I normally don't like discussing trades in the draft on this message board (because invariably everyone wants to trade down for more picks) but I think so highly of Patrick Peterson that I am wondering what it would take to move up and get him. I will throw this out there with the disclaimer that I could be way off. Our first two draft picks, Jahvid Best, Cliff Avril, and potentially Shaun Hill (to a quarterback needy team) to move into the top 3 and draft Patrick Peterson. Too much? Too little? Thoughts?

My Thoughts

Arizona & Tennessee need a veteran QB who can play now. I doubt if their coaches will be given the time to develop a franchise qb with their 1st round choice and I don't see any QBs in this draft that are a sure bet to become one.

I think the Lions could move up to one of those spots if they dangle Sean Hill and swap their 1st rounders. He would solve either team's top problem for the next 3-4 years and is certainly worth a drop of 6 - 8 spots on the draft board if the Lions make him available. He had a better season than McNab & is younger.

If a top rated CB is available at #5 or #7, Detroit could make a move.

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I played around with the Drafttek simulator and came up with the following:

1. Von Miller OLB Texas A&M

2. Davon House CB New Mexico

3. Christian Ponder QB Florida State

4. Chris White ILB Mississippi State

5. Orlando Franklin OT Miami

My personal philosophy is that a holding call and sack are the most disruptive plays in football and both result from pressuring the quarterback. I think we have the talent to pressure but need more talent to stop the run (and force the pass) at the LB position, hence Von Miller and Chris White to compete with Levy, Carpenter, Palmer, Dizon, etc. CB is obvious and Davon House feels a little early and may be a bit of a reach in the second. I'm a proponent of drafting a developmental QB in this draft and Ponder requires some work but he does have some talent. This is maybe a little earlier than I would have liked but I'll live with it. I wish Orland Franklin had been a developmental center, but I'm not going to complain too much.

Would anyone else try to take a developmental QB in this draft?

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I played around with the Drafttek simulator and came up with the following:

1. Von Miller OLB Texas A&M

2. Davon House CB New Mexico

3. Christian Ponder QB Florida State

4. Chris White ILB Mississippi State

5. Orlando Franklin OT Miami

My personal philosophy is that a holding call and sack are the most disruptive plays in football and both result from pressuring the quarterback. I think we have the talent to pressure but need more talent to stop the run (and force the pass) at the LB position, hence Von Miller and Chris White to compete with Levy, Carpenter, Palmer, Dizon, etc. CB is obvious and Davon House feels a little early and may be a bit of a reach in the second. I'm a proponent of drafting a developmental QB in this draft and Ponder requires some work but he does have some talent. This is maybe a little earlier than I would have liked but I'll live with it. I wish Orland Franklin had been a developmental center, but I'm not going to complain too much.

Would anyone else try to take a developmental QB in this draft?

Resigning Stanton is a better option of wasting a draft pick on a QB.

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My Thoughts

Arizona & Tennessee need a veteran QB who can play now. I doubt if their coaches will be given the time to develop a franchise qb with their 1st round choice and I don't see any QBs in this draft that are a sure bet to become one.

I think the Lions could move up to one of those spots if they dangle Sean Hill and swap their 1st rounders. He would solve either team's top problem for the next 3-4 years and is certainly worth a drop of 6 - 8 spots on the draft board if the Lions make him available. He had a better season than McNab & is younger.

If a top rated CB is available at #5 or #7, Detroit could make a move.

I think this thought process is excellent. Shaun Hill's value will never be higher. If I could determine that the value was there, I would have no problem trading Hill and our 1st pick to move up.

In addition, I would not be opposed to trading Hill for draft pics, maybe a 3rd and 4th and then re-signing Stanton to be the #2 QB. Then draft a developmental QB in th 6th or 7th round.

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He could stand to lose a little weight...I agree with you there. It would not surprise me at all if he struggled his rookie year before adapting to a lower playing weight. I still don't think Prince is close, even though I like him a lot also.

When you ask anyone to lose that much weight it makes me cringe to think of spending a top 5 pick on them. He could ultimately end up at safety if he can't drop the weight...his talent is undeniable, I think he has a high ceiling, his technique needs a little work. Other than that and his weight I have no real issues with him as a player. I do, however, think PA has a higher ceiling, I see a lot of Asomugha in him...no one threw his way this year, he's a physical tackler, great press man CB, good hands and vision (converted RB). His only knock is not having elite speed, but few do, he still runs a 4.5.

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I don't think Arizona or Tennessee is going to give up a high 1st for Sean Hill and a mid-round 1st.

I think there may be some demand for Hill, but not that high. Would you give up a Detroit Lion top 5 pick for Hill and a mid-round 1st? I wouldn't. Hill should be looked as a stopgap, and that's it. Because basically, that's what he is. A desperate team might give up a 2nd or 3rd. But not a top 5 pick, even with a later 1st as part of the package. I think his realistic value is a 4th rounder.

But that's just me.

PS: I should've finished my thought on top 5 1st round picks: Those are the building blocks of a team. Revamping a down & out franchise with franchise players. You still need someone smart (Mayhew) making those picks, not someone stupid (Millen), but they should be worth their weight in gold to a franchise hoping to rebound/ rebuild, even with the heavy salary cost attached. I don't trade down a top 5 (or 8) pick for a backup/ stopgap QB and a later 1st. I just don't.

Edited by 84 Lives!!!

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When you ask anyone to lose that much weight it makes me cringe to think of spending a top 5 pick on them. He could ultimately end up at safety if he can't drop the weight...his talent is undeniable, I think he has a high ceiling, his technique needs a little work. Other than that and his weight I have no real issues with him as a player. I do, however, think PA has a higher ceiling, I see a lot of Asomugha in him...no one threw his way this year, he's a physical tackler, great press man CB, good hands and vision (converted RB). His only knock is not having elite speed, but few do, he still runs a 4.5.

I'd rather stay put and see what falls to #13.

At this point, 1 of Von Miller or Akeem Ayers looks like they'll fall to that spot. Kerrigan should be available, as well as a couple other D-Lineman. If 1 of them is the best pick, I'd be OK with that. I'd prefer Miller or Ayers at this point, but...

If Amakumara falls to #13, great!!! I would DEFINITELY want to draft him. If not... I'd still consider Brandon Harris. Or a WR if the right one falls to #13. Or a trade-down. I just don't see the sense of moving up in this draft. And trading Sean Hill won't do it for us. He would have to fall to #9 or later, and only then does the cost (to trade-up) come down to something reasonable. But I still don't want to incur the cost of trading up and.. although this is a bit premature: I'll put money on Mayhew not wanting to trade up in the 1st round this draft. Just guessing, but I think Mayhew sees valuable players at #13 and also won't want to incur the cost of trading up in the 1st.

I'm definitely OK with re-signing Drew Stanton for 3-4 years as the backup and trading Sean Hill for a mid-round pick, whatever we can get... I think there is value to that, especially if we can get a 3rd rounder for him.

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Drafttek gave me (I pushed them a little bit in the 1st couple rounds...!):

1st: Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA

2nd: Dontay Moch, OLB, Nevada

3rd: Deunta Williams, FS, N Carolina

4th: John Moffitt, OG/C, Wisconsin

5th: Roy Helu, RB, Nebraska

6th: Greg Little, WR, N Carolina

My thinking was similar to OSUROWER's.

Of course, I made a HUGE assumption with the Lions signing Asamugha... but I guess I was shooting for the perfect offseason. Sign Asamugha, and draft the above.

I love Ayer's athleticism, pass defense, rush ability, and ability to jump alll over the place position-wise. I think this is something Gunther/ Schwartz/ Mayhew will fall in love with also. I know he's not a great tackler... but I think Gun will "reform" him and we'll have Julian Peterson, v 2.0 (only at his younger years) with Ayers. Perfect Sam LB'er (well, I am hoping so!).

Moch has HUGE speed and sideline-to-sideline ability. I don't know about his tackling/ coverage... but I'll let Gunther, again, "work him up" to top speed in those departments. I know this only going by the numbers... but I'll take the talent/ exceptional speed here and let the coaches do their job. Perfect Will LB'er.

No matter what I did... Drafttek kept giving me Deunta Williams in the 3rd. And actually, I'm quite OK with that because I'd like another fast, big, rangy Safety anyways. With Delmas/ Spievey/ Deunta as our safeties, I have some comfort level with depth/ talent at that position.

I LOVE Moffitt! The guy was a starting Center for a year and a half (I think, possibly more than that?) for Wisconsin, and the last year as a Guard. Huge (325 pounds) and mobile, he can back up along the interior, and then we'll see if he turns into something. Hopefully something better than Manny Ramirez (and I actually LIKED Ramirez too, too bad he didn't pan out...)!

I don't know much about Helo and Little except this: both are big and tough. Helo could be the bruising inside runner we are looking for, or maybe not. Little could make it, eventually, opposite CJ on the outside, pushing Burleson into the slot. Or maybe not. But at this point in the draft you're picking long shots/ developmental guys so... I didn't mind either of these guys as these types of picks. They both appear to have some talent, so I'm not certain why they fell this far in Drafttek?

As for a developmental QB, I would only select one of those if we re-signed Stanton, and traded Sean Hill.

Otherwise, I'm OK with Hill as #2 and Robinson as #3... for now. I'd wait a year before going after the QB. There are other positions I'm looking to develop as a higher priority.

If we re-sign Stanton and DON'T trade Hill, Robinson is fighting for a roster spot. No sense in drafting a QB.

If we re-sign Stanton and trade Hill (3rd or 4th rounder?), then yes, I'd use a 4th to 6th round pick to draft competition for Stanton/ Robinson.

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I played around with the Drafttek simulator and came up with the following:

1. Von Miller OLB Texas A&M

2. Davon House CB New Mexico

3. Christian Ponder QB Florida State

4. Chris White ILB Mississippi State

5. Orlando Franklin OT Miami

My personal philosophy is that a holding call and sack are the most disruptive plays in football and both result from pressuring the quarterback. I think we have the talent to pressure but need more talent to stop the run (and force the pass) at the LB position, hence Von Miller and Chris White to compete with Levy, Carpenter, Palmer, Dizon, etc. CB is obvious and Davon House feels a little early and may be a bit of a reach in the second. I'm a proponent of drafting a developmental QB in this draft and Ponder requires some work but he does have some talent. This is maybe a little earlier than I would have liked but I'll live with it. I wish Orland Franklin had been a developmental center, but I'm not going to complain too much.

Would anyone else try to take a developmental QB in this draft?

I think Ponder is better than Stanton, but I dont think the difference in 3rd string QBs is worth using a 3rd round pick on. We could get a potential starter at another position with that pick. Ponder could become a journeyman qb spot starting for teams here and there but I dont see him being a solid NFL qb.

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i would be very hesitant to trade either of the backups. But I think that the consensus on who to trade is where I disagree. Trade Stanton(2 wins in 3-4 starts). We would not get as much in return but I think there will be someone out there that would take a chance on him for a pick. What do you think Stanton would get in regards to compensation?

I think Hill is too valuable to this team and to THAT position than getting a higher pick in return. No way Stafford makes it through the whole year(I hope i am wrong) and if we are seriously going to make a playoff puch which i think is very possible, then Hill will have to play. And as much as i am now a mild Stanton fan. I would still much rather have Hill in there

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I dont think the difference in 3rd string QBs is worth using a 3rd round pick on.

It's not. That'd be a horrible pick!!

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