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froggyvk

2011 NFL Draft

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If the draft were held tomorrow, I'd put my money on Ayers in the first, although I'm not sold on him yet. I'd love to see them grab Jimmy Smith in the second...he's #3 on my list of CBs.

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Fair enough, Froggy. Where else can we get the highest-rated player at their position at #13, though? Safety? ILB? TE? It just seems to me that Pouncey will be the best (or at least highest-rated) player at a position that could use some reinforcements. And that's the last I'll say about that.

I actually DO think we need a safety to complement Delmas, though, so what does everyone think about Mark Barron or Robert Sands in the 3rd-4th round?

S Rahim Moore, ILB Quan Sturdivant, OLB Akeem Ayers, OT Derek Sherrod & Anthony Castonzo, TE Kyle Rudolph, RB Mark Ingram, but I don't think any of them are good values, except Ingram, which wouldn't be wise. Just not much first round talent at those positions this year.

Also, Barron is a junior and didn't declare and Sands early third sounds about right.

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Fair enough, Froggy. Where else can we get the highest-rated player at their position at #13, though? Safety? ILB? TE? It just seems to me that Pouncey will be the best (or at least highest-rated) player at a position that could use some reinforcements. And that's the last I'll say about that.

I actually DO think we need a safety to complement Delmas, though, so what does everyone think about Mark Barron or Robert Sands in the 3rd-4th round?

S Rahim Moore, ILB Quan Sturdivant, OT Derek Sherrod & Anthony Castonzo, TE Kyle Rudolph, RB Mark Ingram, but I don't think any of them are good values, except Ingram, which wouldn't be wise. Just not much first round talent at those positions this year.

Also, Barron is a junior and didn't declare and Sands early third sounds about right.

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Fair enough, Froggy. Where else can we get the highest-rated player at their position at #13, though? Safety? ILB? TE? It just seems to me that Pouncey will be the best (or at least highest-rated) player at a position that could use some reinforcements. And that's the last I'll say about that.

I actually DO think we need a safety to complement Delmas, though, so what does everyone think about Mark Barron or Robert Sands in the 3rd-4th round?

There are 5 or 6 highly rated defensive linemen, one of those may drop. Julio Jones may be the highest rated player left, or several OT's or LB's may be available. Prince may even drop. they're not the highest rated at their position, but they are likely better fiootball players than Pouncy.

Edited by Longgone

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There are 5 or 6 highly rated defensive linemen, one of those may drop. Julio Jones may be the highest rated player left, or several OT's or LB's may be available. Prince may even drop. they're not the highest rated at their position, but they are likely better fiootball players than Pouncy.

I was even advocating him when we were projected at #8, but the only offensive player I'd take is A.J. Green. I think he's the best player in the draft, but surely he won't be available. I'd have to think one of Quinn or Aldon Smith, or Amukamara will be available. Like our current DEs but those two have the potential to dominate.

I want Jeremy Beal in the 2nd. He's primarily looked at as a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, but I think he'd be a great 4-3 WLB. Grab a Mark Herzlich in the third and the front seven looks mighty good.

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If the draft were held tomorrow, I'd put my money on Ayers in the first, although I'm not sold on him yet. I'd love to see them grab Jimmy Smith in the second...he's #3 on my list of CBs.

Ayers does have more bust potential than other players but he also has more upside. I think the concern about Ayers shedding blockers is ridiculous. He has improved a lot in this area and I think this is going to be one of the strengths of his game.

The only other guy I would want instead of Ayers in the first round is Tyron Smith. He is not the all around tackle LT prospect that Long, Thomas, or Ferguson were coming out of college but the stuff I have been reading about him has his stock rising and he looks to be on his way to being elite as far as pass protection goes. Backus can always be moved to either right guard or right tackle. We have a huge investment in Stafford and I think Smith would be a wise investment protecting Stafford's blind side.

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If you move Levy to the outside, you can draft a Greg Jones or a Nate Irving in the 3rd, negating the need to take Ayers. Or, you can keep Levy inside and take Jeremy Beal in the 3rd. I just think taking a LB in the first round is a reach, none of these guys really stand out to me.

IMHO, we're in the position where we can take BPA in this draft, and the only place we're going to find the BPA at #13 is the OL, with Pouncey.

an interior lineman, especially Mike Pouncey was about the worst argument you could have made given the logic you used. Interior lineman are probably the easiest position to find in mid rounds. I'm not sure if a LB is worth our pick, we'll have to see, but I think we need to take the best defensive playmaker.

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Any DE the Lions draft or sign should be foaming or slobbering at the mouth. They will get to play along the d line with Suh, Williams, and KVB(hopefully he can stay healthy).

What that means is they probably will never be double teamed and they have a real good chance of putting up better than average sack numbers. Cliff Avril better have more than 10 sacks next season.

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Ayers does have more bust potential than other players but he also has more upside. I think the concern about Ayers shedding blockers is ridiculous. He has improved a lot in this area and I think this is going to be one of the strengths of his game.

The only other guy I would want instead of Ayers in the first round is Tyron Smith. He is not the all around tackle LT prospect that Long, Thomas, or Ferguson were coming out of college but the stuff I have been reading about him has his stock rising and he looks to be on his way to being elite as far as pass protection goes. Backus can always be moved to either right guard or right tackle. We have a huge investment in Stafford and I think Smith would be a wise investment protecting Stafford's blind side.

I like Tyron Smith, but Backus won't be moved. He doesn't have the skill set for guard or right tackle and he's an above average left tackle.

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I like Tyron Smith, but Backus won't be moved. He doesn't have the skill set for guard or right tackle and he's an above average left tackle.

He had an above-average year (both pass block and rush blocking), but I don't know that we should expect that kind of performance every year. He was consistently mediocre coming into the year and turns 34 next season. If there's a LT prospect that's BPA at 13, I think it makes sense for the Lions to take one. From what I've seen with this draft, I don't think that will be the case though.

-Tony

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I like Tyron Smith, but Backus won't be moved. He doesn't have the skill set for guard or right tackle and he's an above average left tackle.

I will willingly admit that I'm not a student of the OL game. That said, my understanding is that the LT is "premiere," hardest to play position of the OL. Given that, is there really that much of a difference between LT and RT? I would seem to me that if you can be an above average LT that you would be able to play the "easier" RT position. Guard I would think has a little different skill set than tackle, but not so dramatic that a person couldn't move there if necessary. Don't we see tackle often converted to guards?

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I will willingly admit that I'm not a student of the OL game. That said, my understanding is that the LT is "premiere," hardest to play position of the OL. Given that, is there really that much of a difference between LT and RT? I would seem to me that if you can be an above average LT that you would be able to play the "easier" RT position. Guard I would think has a little different skill set than tackle, but not so dramatic that a person couldn't move there if necessary. Don't we see tackle often converted to guards?

The way I understand it is that an LT needs to primarily be a pass blocker since his job is to protect the QB's back. I've also heard that most teams tend to run to the right more often than the left, so the RT needs to be a better run blocker than pass.

Now for the chicken and the egg question, do teams run to the right because RTs are better run blockers, or do teams find better run blocker to put on the right?

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The way I understand it is that an LT needs to primarily be a pass blocker since his job is to protect the QB's back. I've also heard that most teams tend to run to the right more often than the left, so the RT needs to be a better run blocker than pass.

Now for the chicken and the egg question, do teams run to the right because RTs are better run blockers, or do teams find better run blocker to put on the right?

Hard to say but I think in general, the better run blockers tend to up on the right side because they are not capable of playing left tackle. There are not that many 330 lb lineman who are good pass blockers but their are a lot of them that are good run blockers. So naturally, you put those guys on the right side.

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I like Tyron Smith, but Backus won't be moved. He doesn't have the skill set for guard or right tackle and he's an above average left tackle.

Disagree. Backus is just technically solid in everything he does. He doesn't have great feet or great strength but he is solid in both areas.

Generally, guards tend to be shorter because they are working in confined spaces and you don't want defensive tackles to get easy leverage on them. But Backus is not that tall to begin with. He would be a little on the tall side for a guard but I think he would hold up just fine.

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He had an above-average year (both pass block and rush blocking), but I don't know that we should expect that kind of performance every year. He was consistently mediocre coming into the year and turns 34 next season. If there's a LT prospect that's BPA at 13, I think it makes sense for the Lions to take one. From what I've seen with this draft, I don't think that will be the case though.

-Tony

You have to realize, Backus's success, at age 33, is not a coincidence or some improvement out of nowhere. He's the same player he is always been, which is why coaches have always had his back, which is why we never go for a replacement, which is why he has started 160 straight games.

We have been awful the last 8 years or so. He has had a lot of awful LGs next to him and a lot of awful RTs opposite him before Gosdar(and even during Gosdar's first eyar, year and a half). That's not the biggest factor though. We are typically down in games, often by a lot and we haven't had a quality RB in quite a while before Best, since James STewart really. RDEs, typically a team's best pass rusher, can simply pin back their ears and pass rush with wreckless abandon, made even easier by the fact that the interior line was usually being collapsed.

The one point that is extremely valid is his age. He probably only has 2-3 years left of being a good starter at LT. Drafting a developmental type would be quite smart, but we don't need a starter for next year. We don't need to take Sherrod at 13 or anything like that. Backus is well paid and cutting him would hurt us mroe than help on the salary cap end of things(if there is one) and he can't really switch positions.

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He's not a stack and shed linebacker. They need guys like Mark Herzlich and Dontay Moch.

I disagree. How many linebackers in the NFL even fit the "stack and shed" label anymore? If you watch closely most linebackers don't take linemen head up unless absolutely necessary. They use athleticism to get around the blocker and make the tackle.

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walterfootball.com has a 4 round mock draft on their site.

2011 Mock Draft

Here are the Lions picks:

Round 1: Akeem Ayers OLB UCLA

Round 2: Aaron Williams CB Texas

Round 3: Darius Morris OT/G Temple

Round 4: Jeron Johnson SS Boise State

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Way early, the combines will obviously alter much thinking. But, as of now, I think at pick 13 you are looking at JJ Watt or Ryan Kerrigan. Simply the best players available at a premium position.

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Here's my East-West Shrine Game Report from Day 2

Positives:The Weather

Negatives:The quarterbacksEveryone else

Joking, kind of, but the talent level in Orlando is WAY down from last year. Some guys shone here and there, but mostly it was a whole lot of cringing. The QBs (including Devlin) are not ready for primetime, and the defensive players all look fringe/rotational at best--except for Marvin Austin, who shouldn't be here.

NFL Draft 2011: East-West Shrine Game Practice Report (Day 2) | Bleacher Report

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Where does Oregon LB Casey Matthews fit in this years draft? Could he fit the Lions needs at LB, in say the 3rd or 4th round?

He's depth, not a real starting prospect. But he's a "Schwartz" kind of guy--smart, hard working, able to "do it all." He could easily replace Follett as a top backup and special teamer.

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He's depth, not a real starting prospect. But he's a "Schwartz" kind of guy--smart, hard working, able to "do it all." He could easily replace Follett as a top backup and special teamer.

So, does 3rd or 4th round sound right for him?

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So, does 3rd or 4th round sound right for him?

Follett was a 7th rounder, I'd hope his replacement would be drafted closer to that.

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Follett was a 7th rounder, I'd hope his replacement would be drafted closer to that.

If you believe that's his ceiling, sure. I've seen many reports/mocks that have him in the range of the 3rd or 4th round. I believe the kid's way better than Zac Freekin Follett.

Edited by toadhunter911

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