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Deleterious

2010 Pistons Offseason Thread

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I would LOVE to add Shaun Livingston. That would be a smart gamble, akin to signing McDyess when we did after he came back from injury.

What could we give up for Love or Davis? Prince?

I can't imagine anyone would take Rip Hamilton unless they gave us a real stinker contract back, like Biedrins, Ellis, Baron Davis or Elton Brand stinker.

Would you do Hamilton for Brand?

Unfortunately, I don't see a way to get Love with Prince. Gomes is the only other person I could see them dealing that we would be interested in (His contract is not guaranteed, so we could cut him). Those two together leaves them a few hundred thousand short of working with the cap.

Stuckey for Love would work fairly easy. Not sure how they feel about Brewer playing SG over there. He has an OK year.

Boston is pretty much the same situation. Nobody to pair Davis with to make salaries work. The only players they have signed next year are Davis, Rondo, Wallace, Perkins, KG, and Pierce.

I wouldn't do Rip for Brand.

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How about daye and stuckey for kevin love and a pick?

I would do it if the pick was this years 16th.

I saw a trade on another board. Prince and our 7th for Al Jefferson and their 16th. Not sure how I feel about Jefferson though.

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I would do it if the pick was this years 16th.

I saw a trade on another board. Prince and our 7th for Al Jefferson and their 16th. Not sure how I feel about Jefferson though.

Paired with a defensive big, I like him, paired with a second rate center, not well, he has never won, plays weak defense, needs the ball a lot, doesn't recognize the double team or pass out of it..just not a winning player as evidenced by his plus minus numbers. Love on the other hand has much weaker post skills and is superior in every other facet, especially making his team better.

Then there is Jefferson's off the cout past, which speaks to his charachter..

Edited by sportz4life

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Paired with a defensive big, I like him, paired with a second rate center, not well, he has never won, plays weak defense, needs the ball a lot, doesn't recognize the double team or pass out of it..just not a winning player as evidenced by his plus minus numbers. Love on the other hand has much weaker post skills and is superior in every other facet, especially making his team better.

Then there is Jefferson's off the cout past, which speaks to his charachter..

Pretty much agree with everything. Except I wasn't aware of his off the court stuff.

At what point do you say screw it, we need some bigs with talent and take a shot? Also, is it easier to trade a young Al Jefferson instead of an old Prince? I guess if it was they wouldn't be trading him to us in the first place.

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What about Sam Dalembert? Rip or Tayshuan for him?

How would Dalembert and Love work together? Too similar in their lack of post up games?

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Pretty much agree with everything. Except I wasn't aware of his off the court stuff.

At what point do you say screw it, we need some bigs with talent and take a shot? Also, is it easier to trade a young Al Jefferson instead of an old Prince? I guess if it was they wouldn't be trading him to us in the first place.

I think at the point you have a team with strong leadership and a clear road map of what you are trying to be. In other words, the Pistons seem to be light years away.

My biggest fear is that Dumars is going to start throwing good money after bad in trying to make sense of the CV and BG contracts. The sooner he comes to grips with the money and 2 years he's wasted along with Stuckey's limitations, the better.

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What about Sam Dalembert? Rip or Tayshuan for him?

How would Dalembert and Love work together? Too similar in their lack of post up games?

For Rip I probably do it. What the hell, it gets rid of that dumb contract and clears up our logjam at SG.

I would only do it for Prince if you plan on keeping Dalembert. Trading an expiring for an expiring only makes sense if you want to keep him or they toss in something to sweeten the deal. He would have to take a huge paycut though. I see him as a $6-$8 million type player.

No, Dalembert and Love are not the ideal pairing. But I would argue its an upgrade over this year. Plus, you become pretty flexible. Dalembert on a reasonable contract can always be traded. So can Love. So while neither one might be the final piece, they could be the pieces that get us the final piece.

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How about daye and stuckey for kevin love and a pick?

If they can get him that cheap it would be amazing, I proposed on another thread Stuckey/#7 for Love/#16 or one of the other T-Wolves first rounders. Would be great to target him, for whatever reason the T-Wolves don't seem to care for him.

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The negatives on Kevin Love: he's atrocious on defense, gets his shot blocked a lot on offense esp. in the post and he lacks the conditioning to play even 30 minutes a game

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The negatives on Kevin Love: he's atrocious on defense, gets his shot blocked a lot on offense esp. in the post and he lacks the conditioning to play even 30 minutes a game

His defense and conditioning are questionable, but the shot blocked thing is overblown.

Other PF's with a comparable %blocked number.

Love - 9.4%

Carl Landry - 11.8%

JJ Hickson - 12.3%

Anthony Randolph - 9.1%

Zach Randolph - 9.1%

Andray Blatche - 8.7%

Carlos Boozer - 8.7%

Paul Millsap - 8.5%

Amare Stoudemire - 8.1%

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I really doubt that Dumars is interested in Love.

Plus, I think he's too invested in Stuckey to move him. As in, he thinks Stuckey is going to be a star.

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I offer him two contracts. Dollar amounts in millions.

2 years @ $2/$2

or

2 years @ $3/$3 with the second year a team option.

Both get us two years (If we want it) so we can get his Bird rights. That way if he does well, we can sign him to a nice contract.

I think it will take more than that. Washington is sure to want him back. I like the idea of signing him to two years for sure...that way, if he blows up, not only do you get his Bird rights but you also don't have to worrying about losing him right away.

I love the idea of signing Livingston. He will make a bad team a lot more fun to watch and he at least gives us some hope for the future if we sign him.

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His defense and conditioning are questionable, but the shot blocked thing is overblown.

Other PF's with a comparable %blocked number.

Love - 9.4%

Carl Landry - 11.8%

JJ Hickson - 12.3%

Anthony Randolph - 9.1%

Zach Randolph - 9.1%

Andray Blatche - 8.7%

Carlos Boozer - 8.7%

Paul Millsap - 8.5%

Amare Stoudemire - 8.1%

Are you anti-Boozer for this very reason? The other thing to consider is that Utah and Phoenix are not really serious title contenders in large part because they lack post players that will protect the basket.

With that said, I am willing to overlook the weaknesses of Love because:

1. He is young...while he will never be a good shot blocker, he can be a solid post defender.

2. He has some very appealing strengths; he is a great rebounder and I love his ability to face the basket and shoot or pass to a cutting wing.

3. Baby steps for the Pistons. Even if he not the long term answer, he is a big improvement over what we have now.

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Are you anti-Boozer for this very reason? The other thing to consider is that Utah and Phoenix are not really serious title contenders in large part because they lack post players that will protect the basket.

With that said, I am willing to overlook the weaknesses of Love because:

1. He is young...while he will never be a good shot blocker, he can be a solid post defender.

2. He has some very appealing strengths; he is a great rebounder and I love his ability to face the basket and shoot or pass to a cutting wing.

3. Baby steps for the Pistons. Even if he not the long term answer, he is a big improvement over what we have now.

I didn't make it very clear. But me and s_p were talking about the percentage of their own shots that they have blocked.

I hate Boozer because of what he did in Cleveland. I also think he is a guy that wants to put up his numbers and not really care if he wins or loses. Doesn't play much defense, gets hurt a lot, etc.

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I can't say in practice how this applies to the numbers presented but it seems to me in theory that Love could be much more at risk to get his shot blocked in the post, so he shoots more jumpers than the other guys, and his blocked shot% goes down even though he's most at risk to get blocked in the post of all those guys.

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I didn't make it very clear. But me and s_p were talking about the percentage of their own shots that they have blocked.

I hate Boozer because of what he did in Cleveland. I also think he is a guy that wants to put up his numbers and not really care if he wins or loses. Doesn't play much defense, gets hurt a lot, etc.

Gotchya...I should have realized that given there is really no other explanation for a block percentage.

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I can't say in practice how this applies to the numbers presented but it seems to me in theory that Love could be much more at risk to get his shot blocked in the post, so he shoots more jumpers than the other guys, and his blocked shot% goes down even though he's most at risk to get blocked in the post of all those guys.

I just compared him to Stoudemire. At least in this case your theory seems off. The following is what percentage of their shots they take from each distance.

Love

Rim = 42%

<10 Feet = 15%

10-15 feet = 8%

16-23 = 16%

3's = 16%

Stoudemire

Rim = 43%

<10 = 21%

10-15 = 9%

16-23 = 25%

3's = less than 1%

Love takes 65% of his shots 15 feet and in. Stoudemire takes 73% of his from 15 feet and in. The difference can be explained that Love has 3 point range and Stoudemire doesn't.

That was the only guy I checked against. Others might show something totally different.

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I think at the point you have a team with strong leadership and a clear road map of what you are trying to be. In other words, the Pistons seem to be light years away.

My biggest fear is that Dumars is going to start throwing good money after bad in trying to make sense of the CV and BG contracts. The sooner he comes to grips with the money and 2 years he's wasted along with Stuckey's limitations, the better.

I have said this numerous times this year..The emperor has no clothes and the only way he will admit these mistakes, is during the newspaper article following his resignation..

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I have said this numerous times this year..The emperor has no clothes and the only way he will admit these mistakes, is during the newspaper article following his resignation..

Now would be a good time for him to jump ship, just like Wilson. He's got nothing going on and it seems he's about to make it all worse. He could save face by walking now instead of waiting for the new owners to fire him.

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Now would be a good time for him to jump ship, just like Wilson. He's got nothing going on and it seems he's about to make it all worse. He could save face by walking now instead of waiting for the new owners to fire him.

or hiring Pritchard after the playoffs and making himself more ceremonial.

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Del..I wouldn't be surprised if Livingston hasn't moved hmself into consideration for a 3MM+ deal..even a MLE.

I agree he will get more than those deals I laid out. I am just not sure I am willing to give him that big of a deal.

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What about Sam Dalembert? Rip or Tayshuan for him?

How would Dalembert and Love work together? Too similar in their lack of post up games?

I've been pushing this one since before Chauncey got traded. Rip goes back to his hometown and we get a big man that can rebound and block shots. Win-win.

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I've been pushing this one since before Chauncey got traded. Rip goes back to his hometown and we get a big man that can rebound and block shots. Win-win.

You know what rhymes with Dalembert??

Terrible NBA center..it's a haiku

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