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2010 Pistons Offseason Thread

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Ironic you never addrerssed the question..

To answer yours, it's not playstation..and neither has much value. Gordon can be a decent piece if the roster is crafted better..CV is a lost cause and has no trade value until the last season of his deal..

I am not going to waste words explaining how trading BG or CV helps the rebuilding process. I think you can figure it out. I actually would like to keep one of Rip and BG because I like them both as players but it is just too expensive to carry two shooting guards at 10 mil+.

To suggest Afflalo is better than Rip is absurd. To suggest Smith is better than Hamilton is wrong. Younger and Cheaper...sure. But younger and cheaper does not win you championships. Paying the luxury tax does.

Edited by Hart

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I am not going to waste words explaining how trading BG or CV helps the rebuilding process. I think you can figure it out. I actually would like to keep one of Rip and BG because I like them both as players but it is just too expensive to carry two shooting guards at 10 mil+.

To suggest Afflalo is better than Rip is absurd. To suggest Smith is better than Hamilton is wrong. Younger and Cheaper...sure. But younger and cheaper does not win you championships. Paying the luxury tax does.

The last answer...combined not only are they more productive, they are better defensivley, cheaper and more versitle.

They also dont tie up your roster and both are tradeable.

How many times do you think Dumars begged any team to take Hamilton..how many have..

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If money isn't an factor, why didn't he go after Rip? Butler has been even more injury prone than Rip the past few years. He has played 63, 58, 67, and 72 games the past 4 years. He also doesn't have the championship experience that Rip has which would be very valuable to Dallas. So in my opinion, even a big spender like Cuban takes cost into account.

Sure Rip and/or BG would be a perfect fit in Denver. But they have absolutely no way of obtaining them. We had this debate last year after the playoffs when I said Denver made a bad move getting Billups. It made them old, capped them out and left no room to improve. If Denver wants a SG from Detroit, it will be Stuckey or nobody. It's the only guy the can get without doing some major damage to that roster.

Utah certainly needs a SG no doubt. But again, to get either one they would have to give up Boozer. I still think, and I think you agree, they are better off keeping Boozer and finding a cheaper SG. I don't think giving up Boozer and obtaining Rip or BG makes them any better.

Atlanta has no reason to get Rip. Maybe if Johnson walks, but how would they get him? You would have to rip that roster apart to do it. Why not just let Crawford step into the starting 2 spot and use the MLE to sign a backup SG.

So while not impossible to trade them, maybe you can see why I think its going to be really hard to do so.

Is Utah going to resign Boozer? I highly doubt it. Atlanta is going to lose Joe Johnson and go with Crawford. If he does well, then there is no need for Rip. We'll see. Dallas...well, again, it's Mark Cuban. If he needs a shooting guard, he will do what it takes to acquire one.

Since the trade deadline has passed, it is not worth getting into specific scenarios but the pieces are there for a Rip to Denver deal. It starts with J.R. Smith. It might also include guys like Balkman, Anderson, and (gasp), Ty Lawson. I know, I know...Denver would never trade Lawson. He is an all-star waiting to happen.:wink:

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The last answer...combined not only are they more productive, they are better defensivley, cheaper and more versitle.

They also dont tie up your roster and both are tradeable.

How many times do you think Dumars begged any team to take Hamilton..how many have..

I understand roster flexibility is more important for you than winning but I disagree. And I don't care what you say about them being more productive...if Rip is healthy, he gives them a better chance to win than a combo of Afflalo and Smith. You can't play them on the floor together in crunch time of the playoffs so you take the best player when you are a contending team.

I honestly don't think Dumars has discussed Hamilton with other teams much at all. He signed him to an extension at the beginning of last season and then was injured for most of this year. For Hamilton to be traded, he will have to re-establish his value next year...which I have already said.

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This post should provide most of the relevant info regarding the upcoming offseason for the Pistons. I doubt everything is perfect, so please point out my mistakes so I can correct them....

Just a quick note:

Is it possible to add "remaining contract years after 10/11"?

That might be useful info (probably already on your spreadsheet)...

IE:

Prince/ Wilcox: 0.

Rip, Gordon, CV, and Maxiell: about 15-20 years each (kidding).

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Is Utah going to resign Boozer? I highly doubt it. Atlanta is going to lose Joe Johnson and go with Crawford. If he does well, then there is no need for Rip. We'll see. Dallas...well, again, it's Mark Cuban. If he needs a shooting guard, he will do what it takes to acquire one.

Since the trade deadline has passed, it is not worth getting into specific scenarios but the pieces are there for a Rip to Denver deal. It starts with J.R. Smith. It might also include guys like Balkman, Anderson, and (gasp), Ty Lawson. I know, I know...Denver would never trade Lawson. He is an all-star waiting to happen.:wink:

Yes, I think Utah is going to sign Boozer again. Makes the most sense for both sides.

I'm not sure how much you follow Denver, but even before Martin got hurt they were looking to add a big. Trading Andersen isn't an option for them. They certainly aren't trading away their future starting PG. They need to surround Melo with young talent, not old.

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Just a quick note:

Is it possible to add "remaining contract years after 10/11"?

That might be useful info (probably already on your spreadsheet)...

IE:

Prince/ Wilcox: 0.

Rip, Gordon, CV, and Maxiell: about 15-20 years each (kidding).

Not quite what you wanted, but this should do the trick.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhVEeoz3EMtpdE5TN09ZR0NMbkw1MVJsdjVqdmxYSHc&hl=en

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I think any team with a solid passing PG would like a guy like Rip. He doesn't need the ball in his hands, he's always moving and has a very quick release. I'm thinking Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash and Chauncey Billups wouldn't mind Rip in their backcourt. And he is instantly an upgrade (albeit expensive) at SG if he goes to any of those teams.

Rip is still a good player with value, its his contract that sucks. Detroit will have to take back a bad contract or two for any Rip trade to work. I just hope that bad contract has a playing spot on the team. Emeka Okafor?

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The Pistons can officially start making trades now.

I thought it was two days after the NBA Finals are over?

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I thought it was two days after the NBA Finals are over?

Nope. Anyone eliminated from the playoffs can make trades until July 1.

NBA Salary Cap FAQ

When the trading deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.

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http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66010/20100416/stern_expects_10_11_cap_to_be_at_$561m/

Stern Expects 10-11 Cap To Be At $56.1M

David Stern places revised '10-'11 cap figure at $56.1 million, a boon to teams pursuing free agents.

Stern's new cap estimate is up dramatically from last summer's projection of $50.4M-$53.6M.

It's based on a 0.5 pct decline in league revenue (BRI), source tells CBSSports.com. Previous estimates feared a 2.5-5 pct. decline.

Good news for the Pistons. They are still over the cap, but the higher cap means higher BRI, which is what the luxury tax is based off somewhat. That means its easier to spend the MLE, keep Ben and Bynum if they want. Nothing like a $67 million payroll for 50 more losses.

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http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66010/20100416/stern_expects_10_11_cap_to_be_at_$561m/

Good news for the Pistons. They are still over the cap, but the higher cap means higher BRI, which is what the luxury tax is based off somewhat. That means its easier to spend the MLE, keep Ben and Bynum if they want. Nothing like a $67 million payroll for 50 more losses.

Yep..Bynum the crummy backup point guard gift that just keeps giving, to think they could have had any of Collison, Lawson or Maynor instead..at 1/3 the price and 5X the future. But hey what do I know. I'm a jerk.

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Would anyone give Kyle Lowry the full MLE?

He is a restricted free agent, so Houston could match any offer. Morey has said he wants to keep Lowry. But if the MLE comes out to $6 million and the Pistons offer the full MLE, it would bump Houston up against the luxury tax most likely.

Lowry has said he wants a starting spot. But he would not mind at all if Houston matched any offer he received.

I like Lowry a lot, and think he would be a good addition. Three problems though.

1) He wants to be a starter. I think he is starter material, but with all of our guards already I am not sure you could guarantee him that position. I would love to see him starting, BG at the SG spot with Stuckey coming off the bench.

2) Another problem of offering is, that money is then locked up until Houston either matches or declines. Meaning if Detroit offers on the first day of free agency, they are then sitting on the sidelines for the next 7 days until Houston decides. By then, its likely any other players they had interest in would have been signed already.

3) The biggest problem is, Houston probably matches and/or another team offers more than the MLE.

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what else is out there? Is there a solid rebounding big man available?

I don't think so. At least not in our price/age range. Others may disagree.

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Would anyone give Kyle Lowry the full MLE?

He is a restricted free agent, so Houston could match any offer. Morey has said he wants to keep Lowry. But if the MLE comes out to $6 million and the Pistons offer the full MLE, it would bump Houston up against the luxury tax most likely.

Lowry has said he wants a starting spot. But he would not mind at all if Houston matched any offer he received.

I like Lowry a lot, and think he would be a good addition. Three problems though.

1) He wants to be a starter. I think he is starter material, but with all of our guards already I am not sure you could guarantee him that position. I would love to see him starting, BG at the SG spot with Stuckey coming off the bench.

2) Another problem of offering is, that money is then locked up until Houston either matches or declines. Meaning if Detroit offers on the first day of free agency, they are then sitting on the sidelines for the next 7 days until Houston decides. By then, its likely any other players they had interest in would have been signed already.

3) The biggest problem is, Houston probably matches and/or another team offers more than the MLE.

Like him, exellent role player..would be an upgrade, but he is a bench player, he can't score at all and then we would have 2 guards who couldn't shoot. Lowry is an excellent 3rd or 4th guard though.

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Two decent young available frontcourt alternatives..Kevin Love, Big Baby Davis. Not the most attractive specimens, but both can score and board..all Love does is play basketball.

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Two decent young available frontcourt alternatives..Kevin Love, Big Baby Davis. Not the most attractive specimens, but both can score and board..all Love does is play basketball.

Yeah. My answer to Buddha was strictly free agents.

A few weeks ago S4L PM'd me about Shaun Livingston. Since then it has kind of been all over the place, but figured I would ask anyway.

Anyone interested in dangling a contract in front of him? If so, how much and how long? He had one of the worst knee injuries I ever saw, but he seems to be healthy for the most part. Ended on a high note in Washington.

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Yeah. My answer to Buddha was strictly free agents.

A few weeks ago S4L PM'd me about Shaun Livingston. Since then it has kind of been all over the place, but figured I would ask anyway.

Anyone interested in dangling a contract in front of him? If so, how much and how long? He had one of the worst knee injuries I ever saw, but he seems to be healthy for the most part. Ended on a high note in Washington.

Shaun Livingston - Washington Wizards - Game Log - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Last 9 games. pretty damn good, nice to pair a 6-7 PG with Gordon.

15.7 PPG 54/85 .635 FG 32/38 .842 FT 3.6REB 6.55 AST pretty damn good.

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Would anyone give Kyle Lowry the full MLE?

He is a restricted free agent, so Houston could match any offer. Morey has said he wants to keep Lowry. But if the MLE comes out to $6 million and the Pistons offer the full MLE, it would bump Houston up against the luxury tax most likely.

Lowry has said he wants a starting spot. But he would not mind at all if Houston matched any offer he received.

I like Lowry a lot, and think he would be a good addition. Three problems though.

1) He wants to be a starter. I think he is starter material, but with all of our guards already I am not sure you could guarantee him that position. I would love to see him starting, BG at the SG spot with Stuckey coming off the bench.

2) Another problem of offering is, that money is then locked up until Houston either matches or declines. Meaning if Detroit offers on the first day of free agency, they are then sitting on the sidelines for the next 7 days until Houston decides. By then, its likely any other players they had interest in would have been signed already.

3) The biggest problem is, Houston probably matches and/or another team offers more than the MLE.

I can't say I know a whole lot about Lowry besides he is a good defender and tough, hard nosed, player. I just don't know that he would be enough of an upgrade on Stuckey to be worthwhile. If we can move Rip or BG, then he makes a lot more sense. Are you assuming that signing Lowry would mean moving Rip?

I will say I think guys like Lowry are very beneficial to bad teams that are in rebuilding mode. By all accounts, he works his tail off on defense and is a high energy player. Those are the type of players we need right now.

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Yeah. My answer to Buddha was strictly free agents.

A few weeks ago S4L PM'd me about Shaun Livingston. Since then it has kind of been all over the place, but figured I would ask anyway.

Anyone interested in dangling a contract in front of him? If so, how much and how long? He had one of the worst knee injuries I ever saw, but he seems to be healthy for the most part. Ended on a high note in Washington.

I like this idea better than Lowry because the cost is less and the upside is greater.

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Shaun Livingston - Washington Wizards - Game Log - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Last 9 games. pretty damn good, nice to pair a 6-7 PG with Gordon.

15.7 PPG 54/85 .635 FG 32/38 .842 FT 3.6REB 6.55 AST pretty damn good.

I offer him two contracts. Dollar amounts in millions.

2 years @ $2/$2

or

2 years @ $3/$3 with the second year a team option.

Both get us two years (If we want it) so we can get his Bird rights. That way if he does well, we can sign him to a nice contract.

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I would LOVE to add Shaun Livingston. That would be a smart gamble, akin to signing McDyess when we did after he came back from injury.

What could we give up for Love or Davis? Prince?

I can't imagine anyone would take Rip Hamilton unless they gave us a real stinker contract back, like Biedrins, Ellis, Baron Davis or Elton Brand stinker.

Would you do Hamilton for Brand?

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I can't say I know a whole lot about Lowry besides he is a good defender and tough, hard nosed, player. I just don't know that he would be enough of an upgrade on Stuckey to be worthwhile. If we can move Rip or BG, then he makes a lot more sense. Are you assuming that signing Lowry would mean moving Rip?

I will say I think guys like Lowry are very beneficial to bad teams that are in rebuilding mode. By all accounts, he works his tail off on defense and is a high energy player. Those are the type of players we need right now.

As a player he probably isn't better than Stuckey. As a PG he is light years ahead of him. He had the same assist numbers in 10 less MPG this year. He creates well and really pushes the tempo, which I keep hearing the Pistons pay lips service to as something they want to do.

But S4L is right. Stuckey is one of the worst shooters in the entire league. You can add another bad shooter with him in the rotation. Size is also an issue.

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