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Deleterious

2010 Pistons Offseason Thread

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I would imagine they hang on to Wallace and Bynum. Bynum can actually run the point unlike Stuckey and Ben was the best defender on the team and kept them alive early in the year.

With the draft who knows, but they need a big guy unless they somehow land in the first 2 spots to get Turner or Wall (would take Turner in a heartbeat). They really won't be able to sign any free agents with their current cap outside of the MLE, assuming they resign Ben and Will. Not sure any team will bite on Rip's contract but someone will for Tayshaun. Could be another very painful season next year too.

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The more I start to look at the free agent list, the more I hope the Pistons sit it out this year. Don't even spend the MLE. The types of players they can afford are the types you can sign any summer. Save the money, let that big salary cap number come down a bit and go to work next summer.

Also, if Joe is serious about spending the MLE, forget about our desire to buy/trade for another draft pick. Depending on what they spend on Ben and Bynum plus the MLE, they probably can't afford another guaranteed contract. A lot depends on where the final cap number lands I guess. Just something to think about.

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The more I start to look at the free agent list, the more I hope the Pistons sit it out this year. Don't even spend the MLE. The types of players they can afford are the types you can sign any summer. Save the money, let that big salary cap number come down a bit and go to work next summer.

Also, if Joe is serious about spending the MLE, forget about our desire to buy/trade for another draft pick. Depending on what they spend on Ben and Bynum plus the MLE, they probably can't afford another guaranteed contract. A lot depends on where the final cap number lands I guess. Just something to think about.

I would agree with this. Unless there is a diamond in the rough who can be a part of the future, it would just be a waste of money.

Del-what is your take on Gordon's blowup last night? Is there anything to be read into the fact that he started the game and there was no Stuckey or Hamilton?

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I would agree with this. Unless there is a diamond in the rough who can be a part of the future, it would just be a waste of money.

Del-what is your take on Gordon's blowup last night? Is there anything to be read into the fact that he started the game and there was no Stuckey or Hamilton?

My take (not that you asked) comes from something Prince said in the post-game interview. He said that Kuester asked him to go out and establish/set the tone to start the game. His shot was falling so he went with that until the second half (so he says) when Gordon was hot and he started feeding him.

That seems pretty simple but I don't think it's something Stuckey understands or executes very well. He tends to dominate the ball and passes to bail himself out rather than set guys up.

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My take (not that you asked) comes from something Prince said in the post-game interview. He said that Kuester asked him to go out and establish/set the tone to start the game. His shot was falling so he went with that until the second half (so he says) when Gordon was hot and he started feeding him.

That seems pretty simple but I don't think it's something Stuckey understands or executes very well. He tends to dominate the ball and passes to bail himself out rather than set guys up.

I don't think Stuckey is any worse than Bynum as far as creating for others. But I do think that without Stuckey or Hamilton, Gordon might be more at ease being a focal point on offense because he knows he needs to be. Gordon says all the right things about being a team player and a sixth man but that might not be how he plays best.

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I would agree with this. Unless there is a diamond in the rough who can be a part of the future, it would just be a waste of money.

Del-what is your take on Gordon's blowup last night? Is there anything to be read into the fact that he started the game and there was no Stuckey or Hamilton?

I don't read much into it. Gordon is pretty streaky and when he is on, he is one of the best pure shooters in the game.

I will agree with Truth about Stuckey not creating. Gordon is at his best spotting up at the 3 point line and launching shots. If Stuckey ever starts passing the ball out on his drives, instead of launching ill advised shots with 3 guys on him, I bet we see Gordon explode. How many more open shots does Gordon get with Rose or even Hinrich over Stuckey?

I know people love to bag on Gordon, but we need to look at his per 36 numbers to better understand his season. He is only about 3 points off his PPG career average. As bad as his shooting has been, he is only 2% off his career TS% and his USG% is the lowest of his career. More minutes, less injuries, and a better PG and I am confident he is back to normal.

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I don't read much into it. Gordon is pretty streaky and when he is on, he is one of the best pure shooters in the game.

I will agree with Truth about Stuckey not creating. Gordon is at his best spotting up at the 3 point line and launching shots. If Stuckey ever starts passing the ball out on his drives, instead of launching ill advised shots with 3 guys on him, I bet we see Gordon explode. How many more open shots does Gordon get with Rose or even Hinrich over Stuckey?

I know people love to bag on Gordon, but we need to look at his per 36 numbers to better understand his season. He is only about 3 points off his PPG career average. As bad as his shooting has been, he is only 2% off his career TS% and his USG% is the lowest of his career. More minutes, less injuries, and a better PG and I am confident he is back to normal.

This is why I don't think rebuilding the team is as hopeless as some make it seem. Gordon, Rip, and even CV will still have trade value if you put them into a position to optimize their talents.

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This is why I don't think rebuilding the team is as hopeless as some make it seem. Gordon, Rip, and even CV will still have trade value if you put them into a position to optimize their talents.

You fail to grasp, that with Stuckey and Hamilton stealing minutes Gordon will never get enough burn..Hamilton has little trade value and CV has less.

Trading everyone isn't the answer, I laugh at this idea..don't people grasp that the same idiot who signed them , needs to trade them..when you have limited talent evaluation skills in the first place, your trading abilities are never much better..

Gordon can play..the coaching, the system and who he plays with are a much bigger problem than Gordon.

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You fail to grasp, that with Stuckey and Hamilton stealing minutes Gordon will never get enough burn..Hamilton has little trade value and CV has less.

Trading everyone isn't the answer, I laugh at this idea..don't people grasp that the same idiot who signed them , needs to trade them..when you have limited talent evaluation skills in the first place, your trading abilities are never much better..

Gordon can play..the coaching, the system and who he plays with are a much bigger problem than Gordon.

You always bring every argument back to Dumars. I get it. You don't like the guy and want him fired. But getting beyond that, I am not convinced that Hamilton and Gordon can't co-exist.

Also, if you read my post, you should be able to infer that I am not talking about present trade value but future.

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You always bring every argument back to Dumars. I get it. You don't like the guy and want him fired. But getting beyond that, I am not convinced that Hamilton and Gordon can't co-exist.

Also, if you read my post, you should be able to infer that I am not talking about present trade value but future.

I bring it back to Dumars..because you suggest moves, without quantifying who made the mess. When you make the mistakes to create the problems, it's ridiculous not to consider that failing when you asses how to remedy them.

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Stuckey just hasn't developed the way everyone thought he would. Dumars annointed him after Chauncey got hurt in the 2008 playoffs, but he just hasn't become what we want him to be. He is still young but if he doesn't deliver next year, I am done with him.

As far as free agency goes, from how I understand it, basically all the Pistons can get this summer is the MLE since they won't have much money to spend assuming they resign Bynum and Wallace. I imagine they will use it depending on how the draft goes but I would like a year with this team healthy to see if it's much better or not.

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I bring it back to Dumars..because you suggest moves, without quantifying who made the mess. When you make the mistakes to create the problems, it's ridiculous not to consider that failing when you asses how to remedy them.

So we are not allowed to discuss any ways the Pistons can improve until Dumars is fired? I don't think so. Maybe I won't be able to participate in discussion with you then but there are others on here who will discuss the Pistons beyond Dumars.

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So we are not allowed to discuss any ways the Pistons can improve until Dumars is fired? I don't think so. Maybe I won't be able to participate in discussion with you then but there are others on here who will discuss the Pistons beyond Dumars.

Discuss them all you want..it's excercise..if it frustrates you to have other posters disagree with your ideas..the message board concept is going to be a problem.

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This is why I don't think rebuilding the team is as hopeless as some make it seem. Gordon, Rip, and even CV will still have trade value if you put them into a position to optimize their talents.

I think all 3 are near impossible to trade. Length and cost of contract on all 3 is high.

Even if you do trade them, what can you get? Expiring contracts? So in year 3 of the rebuild I am still collecting expiring contracts? That would be bad in my opinion.

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I don't think Stuckey is any worse than Bynum as far as creating for others. But I do think that without Stuckey or Hamilton, Gordon might be more at ease being a focal point on offense because he knows he needs to be. Gordon says all the right things about being a team player and a sixth man but that might not be how he plays best.

There are a lot of people in Chicago who would tell you that Gordon needs the minutes and the ball and can't be part of a balanced offense. I don't know if that's true, if it is, it doesn't combine well with Stuckey's game (at least as it's so far developed).

Bynum can be better than Stuckey at creating shots for others just by virtue of the way he uses his quicks (as opposed to muscle) to get to the hoop and will dish (where as Stuckey usually has his head down with his mind made up). But that's not really what I meant by bringing up Stuckey. I just think he tends to dominate the ball and sees himself as a scorer, not floor general.

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Discuss them all you want..it's excercise..if it frustrates you to have other posters disagree with your ideas..the message board concept is going to be a problem.

So is that how you are going to back out of this? Insulting my ability to handle different perspectives? Nice try Sportz. I enjoy debate and good insight, even when it comes from you. It just gets overshadowed by your inability to get beyond your hatred for Dumars.

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I think all 3 are near impossible to trade. Length and cost of contract on all 3 is high.

Even if you do trade them, what can you get? Expiring contracts? So in year 3 of the rebuild I am still collecting expiring contracts? That would be bad in my opinion.

I don't think you can trade them now. Rip is coming off an injury plagued year and CV/Gordon off down years. They need to have a good first half next season and then I think a deadline move is possible, especially for a player of Rip or Gordon's talents. There are playoff contenders out there always on the lookout for another scorer (see Dallas).

I would have no problem trading them for expiring contracts.

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I don't think you can trade them now. Rip is coming off an injury plagued year and CV/Gordon off down years. They need to have a good first half next season and then I think a deadline move is possible, especially for a player of Rip or Gordon's talents. There are playoff contenders out there always on the lookout for another scorer (see Dallas).

I would have no problem trading them for expiring contracts.

Explain this to me again..we trade CV/Gordon for expiring contracts.makes tons of sense..

lets see..we trade Billups for the expiring contract, to acuire FA (CV/Gordon) then trade CV/Gordon for expiring contracs..no offense Hart but..cmon..you wonder why I mock you a little bit..

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Explain this to me again..we trade CV/Gordon for expiring contracts.makes tons of sense..

lets see..we trade Billups for the expiring contract, to acuire FA (CV/Gordon) then trade CV/Gordon for expiring contracs..no offense Hart but..cmon..you wonder why I mock you a little bit..

I will go to my death bed believing trading Billups was the right move at the time. It was the subsequent moves that made it turn out for the worse.

I will never understand why you continue to harp on BG and CV being bad fits/signings yet at the same time have no desire for trading them.

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I don't think you can trade them now. Rip is coming off an injury plagued year and CV/Gordon off down years. They need to have a good first half next season and then I think a deadline move is possible, especially for a player of Rip or Gordon's talents. There are playoff contenders out there always on the lookout for another scorer (see Dallas).

I would have no problem trading them for expiring contracts.

You say people always want scorers and use Dallas as your reasoning. But you fail to mention Butler is cheaper, younger, and on a shorter contract than Rip. He is cheaper and on a much shorter contract than Gordon. When Dallas acquired him he had 1 year and 30 games left on his deal. This summer Rip will have 3 years left and Gordon 4.

You also don't address my concerns at all about Gordon. He had the second best year of his career last year and nobody would pay him. Why would they now or next year?

Not only do you need a team that wants them (What contenders need a 2 besides Utah?). You need a team who can send matching salary back to make the deal work.

I guess it would be easier for me to buy your reasoning if you could give me 2-3 examples of teams who would trade for them.

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You say people always want scorers and use Dallas as your reasoning. But you fail to mention Butler is cheaper, younger, and on a shorter contract than Rip. He is cheaper and on a much shorter contract than Gordon. When Dallas acquired him he had 1 year and 30 games left on his deal. This summer Rip will have 3 years left and Gordon 4.

You also don't address my concerns at all about Gordon. He had the second best year of his career last year and nobody would pay him. Why would they now or next year?

Not only do you need a team that wants them (What contenders need a 2 besides Utah?). You need a team who can send matching salary back to make the deal work.

I guess it would be easier for me to buy your reasoning if you could give me 2-3 examples of teams who would trade for them.

Butler was cheaper but I don't believe for a second money is a factor for Cuban. If he needs a guy to help him win, he will go out and get him.

I have said this before but I believe Rip (or maybe even BG) would be a perfect fit for Denver. Once they get ousted in the playoffs and face the possibility of Anthony hitting his free agent year, they are going to have to make a bold move. Utah is another one. Those are the prime contenders for a two. A couple of other darkhorse teams might be Chicago, Atlanta, and Boston.

A lot of teams did not spend last summer because they were waiting for this summer. Once we know what Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are going to do, you will see teams more willing to use their cap room.

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Butler was cheaper but I don't believe for a second money is a factor for Cuban. If he needs a guy to help him win, he will go out and get him.

I have said this before but I believe Rip (or maybe even BG) would be a perfect fit for Denver. Once they get ousted in the playoffs and face the possibility of Anthony hitting his free agent year, they are going to have to make a bold move. Utah is another one. Those are the prime contenders for a two. A couple of other darkhorse teams might be Chicago, Atlanta, and Boston.

A lot of teams did not spend last summer because they were waiting for this summer. Once we know what Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are going to do, you will see teams more willing to use their cap room.

Why in the world would Denver want Rip...they have two players who combine to be more versitle and cheaper, not to mention better. Then there is the small issue of the contract. What about.. how Denver has crafted their payroll and roster.. leads you to believe they would have any interest in Hamilto nand who for the life of me, would they trade back for 10MM.

Boston, yeah just what they need another old expensive SG..

Dude..you are reaching..

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I will go to my death bed believing trading Billups was the right move at the time. It was the subsequent moves that made it turn out for the worse.

I will never understand why you continue to harp on BG and CV being bad fits/signings yet at the same time have no desire for trading them.

Ironic you never addrerssed the question..

To answer yours, it's not playstation..and neither has much value. Gordon can be a decent piece if the roster is crafted better..CV is a lost cause and has no trade value until the last season of his deal..

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Butler was cheaper but I don't believe for a second money is a factor for Cuban. If he needs a guy to help him win, he will go out and get him.

I have said this before but I believe Rip (or maybe even BG) would be a perfect fit for Denver. Once they get ousted in the playoffs and face the possibility of Anthony hitting his free agent year, they are going to have to make a bold move. Utah is another one. Those are the prime contenders for a two. A couple of other darkhorse teams might be Chicago, Atlanta, and Boston.

A lot of teams did not spend last summer because they were waiting for this summer. Once we know what Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are going to do, you will see teams more willing to use their cap room.

If money isn't an factor, why didn't he go after Rip? Butler has been even more injury prone than Rip the past few years. He has played 63, 58, 67, and 72 games the past 4 years. He also doesn't have the championship experience that Rip has which would be very valuable to Dallas. So in my opinion, even a big spender like Cuban takes cost into account.

Sure Rip and/or BG would be a perfect fit in Denver. But they have absolutely no way of obtaining them. We had this debate last year after the playoffs when I said Denver made a bad move getting Billups. It made them old, capped them out and left no room to improve. If Denver wants a SG from Detroit, it will be Stuckey or nobody. It's the only guy the can get without doing some major damage to that roster.

Utah certainly needs a SG no doubt. But again, to get either one they would have to give up Boozer. I still think, and I think you agree, they are better off keeping Boozer and finding a cheaper SG. I don't think giving up Boozer and obtaining Rip or BG makes them any better.

Atlanta has no reason to get Rip. Maybe if Johnson walks, but how would they get him? You would have to rip that roster apart to do it. Why not just let Crawford step into the starting 2 spot and use the MLE to sign a backup SG.

So while not impossible to trade them, maybe you can see why I think its going to be really hard to do so.

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