Jump to content

CapitalTigers

Damon Wants to be a Detroit Tiger

Recommended Posts

It's affordable if the structure is as follows 1year/6.5MM with/1.5MM deferred to 2011. with a 1MM option for 2012 at 6MM (either vesting or non vesting they can work that out).

If at the trade deadline July 31, the Tigers were to move him, they tigers would have only paid him 3,350,000 with the tacquiring team absorbing the remainder. (5MM prorated over 2/3 a season)

If the Tigers are contenders, 5MM and deferring his salary to 2011 when payroll is low..makes the deal cash flow friendly and risk adverse..

Well, as I've stated, I'm not a fan of signing Damon, but I do enjoy talking about contracts...

I think if we were to sign him, you are proposing to spend way too much. Who are you bidding against? There is no market for the guy, and the 2-3 teams that might have a need have no money to spend on him... So let's not shoot the moon here.

And I think the difference between a vesting, player, club, or mutual option year is huge. In particular because, if the "out" is trading him at the deadline, you are burdening yourself with a vesting option because it will hurt his trade value. This is because it will limit the number of teams that can trade for him, because no one wants to deal for someone (and their salary) and then not be able to give them PA's for fear they will vest the next year.

I'd counter that this is a pretty reasonable contract:

1 year at $3 million

Club option for 2nd year at $6 million

$1 million buyout of option year

Or Damon can elect a Mutual option, in which if he opts out, the buyout is only $500k, and if the team opts out, the buyout is $1 million

Obviously, if we can get him to defer some payment until 2011+, all the better because it eases cash flow concerns in 2010 and lowers the present value of the contract. But I won't make any assumptions along this line.

This basically makes the contract either 1yr/$4 million or a 2yr/$9 million deal, or maybe 1yr/$3.5 million if he elected a mutual option and he declined the option year.

Really, what more can Damon expect? And frankly, I still wouldn't want him at this deal, I just think it's a pretty reasonable given we are at (roughly two weeks until pitchers/catchers report).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, as I've stated, I'm not a fan of signing Damon, but I do enjoy talking about contracts...

I think if we were to sign him, you are proposing to spend way too much. Who are you bidding against? There is no market for the guy, and the 2-3 teams that might have a need have no money to spend on him... So let's not shoot the moon here.

And I think the difference between a vesting, player, club, or mutual option year is huge. In particular because, if the "out" is trading him at the deadline, you are burdening yourself with a vesting option because it will hurt his trade value. This is because it will limit the number of teams that can trade for him, because no one wants to deal for someone (and their salary) and then not be able to give them PA's for fear they will vest the next year.

I'd counter that this is a pretty reasonable contract:

1 year at $3 million

Club option for 2nd year at $6 million

$1 million buyout of option year

Or Damon can elect a Mutual option, in which if he opts out, the buyout is only $500k, and if the team opts out, the buyout is $1 million

Obviously, if we can get him to defer some payment until 2011+, all the better because it eases cash flow concerns in 2010 and lowers the present value of the contract. But I won't make any assumptions along this line.

This basically makes the contract either 1yr/$4 million or a 2yr/$9 million deal, or maybe 1yr/$3.5 million if he elected a mutual option and he declined the option year.

Really, what more can Damon expect? And frankly, I still wouldn't want him at this deal, I just think it's a pretty reasonable given we are at (roughly two weeks until pitchers/catchers report).

We don't have any idea who they are bidding against, I mean who in their right mind thought Valvaerde would cost 7MM.

Plus you have to find a hapy meduim between what it will take to get him to signednd fiscal responsibility,the dererral allowed for some payroll relief..the option has multiple ways to be crafted, but if Detroit is good and Damon plays well, you want the option of contract certainty for 2011..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports believes that the Tigers have moved into the non-denial stage regarding Johnny Damon (via Twitter).
Via MLBTraderumors

What does this mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Via MLBTraderumors

What does this mean?

That means they're not denying rumors that they are talking to him any more.

Which might mean that they ARE talking to him...

Maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I asked Dave Dombrowski if the #Tigers have plans to pursue Johnny Damon ... He said he wouldn't comment on specific players ...

and

Then he said: "We are always open to improving our club." Sure sounds like a non-denial. Detroit fans, feel free to speculate.

From Twiiter..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We don't have any idea who they are bidding against, I mean who in their right mind thought Valvaerde would cost 7MM.

Plus you have to find a hapy meduim between what it will take to get him to signednd fiscal responsibility,the dererral allowed for some payroll relief..

Clearly they overpaid for Valverde. And I'm pretty sure I did find a happy medium between the club and Damon's desires, because there's no one else going to pay him that much or any more. Paying him more than I outlined is just bidding against yourself. And while you are right that no one knows who will enter the bidding and at how much, the clock is ticking and if they wre going to do it, they likely would have by now. Most clubs right now, for the contract that I outlined (1yr/$4 million or 2yr/$9 million) probably has to go to owership for approval to go over their alloted budget for the year. What team is rumored to have $4 million or more left to spend right now?

the option has multiple ways to be crafted, but if Detroit is good and Damon plays well, you want the option of contract certainty for 2011..

Just because Detroit does good and Damon plays well in 2010, doesn't necessarily mean you want him back in 2011. Any number of developments could occur to make the club, or Damon want to part ways. And if the market bounces back, and he suddenly warrants and deserves more money and there is mutual desire to keep him around, there are other ways to do it (pay the buyout and negotiate a new contract at a higher salary). This is pretty much the least of my concerns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clearly they overpaid for Valverde.

Base upoon the deals Street, Lyon and Rodney received I thnk not..and we message board guys..no matter how shrewd and we're pretty shrewd..:ponder: never really know what the market is..or who is competing..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Base upoon the deals Street, Lyon and Rodney received I thnk not..and we message board guys..no matter how shrewd and we're pretty shrewd..:ponder: never really know what the market is..or who is competing..

How are Street (not even a FA), Lyon and Rodney representative of what the market was saying about Valverde? They didn't require the loss of a draft pick while Valverde did. Not to mention, Lyon and Rodney signed well over a month before Valverde did. The timing of contracts is significant in an environment where there is very limited dollars available to sign FA's. Waiting that 4-6 weeks probably cost Valverde a lot of money, and SHOULD have cost him even more had the Tigers really wanted to play hardball in my opinion.

I don't claim to be an insider and I do not have non-public information regarding what kind of contract offers Damon has, or what payroll limitations interested organizations may have. But it's clear that teams have spent the vast majority of their free payroll dollars. It's clear that we're two weeks and change from pitchers/catchers reporting. It's clear that market conditions have caused payrolls for pretty much every organization to contract. It's clear that the Yankees filled their void already. And it's clear that there are a ton of veteran players still without jobs. And it's clear that over the last two years several productive veterans have been forced to retire because teams won't pay them what they feel they deserve. I don't have to be a insider to read these factors and come to some conclusions about what a ballpark Damon contract should be.

Damon's last great hope was Oakland, and when they went all-in on Sheets, he was left standing roadside.

Edited by ballmich

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd rather have Felipe Lopez than Kennedy. Switch hitting lead off man who can play 2b/ss/3b.

I wouldn't mind signing Lopez for the bench, but I don't think I want him hitting that high in the lineup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather sign Adam Kennedy, but if it's a one year deal for Damon then okay. I don't see Boras letting Damon sign in Detroit for 1 year, after turning down a 1 year deal with the Skankees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
New Hampshire can't be beat.

I would love to see them sign Damon. Five competent players for four positions is a good thing. There will be injuries and slumps. I'm not worried about finding everyone a place to play.

Portsmouth is a neat town, if you are from the midwest, and want to see a actual colonial looking community..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't see Boras letting Damon sign in Detroit for 1 year, after turning down a 1 year deal with the Skankees.

But that one year offer is no longer there, so he's got to sign where he can... I can't see that many multi-year deals out there.

People sign one-year deals all the time, and at his age, Damon should be happy to get just that, on a good team.

Edited by JonBenke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave Dombrowski, Jim Leyland on Johnny Damon's interest in signing with the Detroit Tigers | Detroit Tigers - - MLive.com

Article posted on mlive just a few minutes ago has Dave not saying no categorically to Damon and being more open than he appeared to be previously.

“It’s a situation for us where we have not discussed free agent players in public,” Tigers general manager Dave Dombrowski told Booth Newspapers today. “And I don’t see any benefit in doing that in this situation.”

Dombrowski said recently at TigerFest that he is not looking to make any adjustments to the pitching staff, and that any changes would be made for offensive reasons. He said today that his thinking remains the same in that area.

“We keep an open mind,” Dombrowski said. “We keep our mind open to every way we can improve our club.”

He was asked if he was more inclined to wait until assessing players such as rookie center fielder Austin Jackson in Grapefruit League games or to make a move at any time.

“If it’s right,” Dombrowski said, “we would do it any time.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And this from the Detroit News....... Note: Bolding mine.

Dombrowski: Tigers 'not close' to signing Johnny Damon

TOM GAGE

The Detroit News

Detroit -- Not so fast.

He'd like to come here, but the Tigers say they are not on the verge of signing free agent Johnny Damon.

In response to questions about Damon, general manager Dave Dombrowski has said twice in the last two days, including to The Detroit News on Tuesday morning, "We're not close to making any kind of deals at this point."

That means signings. That also means trades.

It's also true that Damon's agent, Scott Boras, and Dombrowski have not yet discussed the 36-year-old outfielder's interest in the Tigers.

Therefore, it remains unclear what kind of contract Damon would want if he came to Detroit -- but this could be an indication: Speaking last Friday on WFAN in New York, Damon was asked if he believes two years at $11 million each is a contract still be available to him outside of New York. Damon replied, "I think, if creativity is involved."

Keep in mind that Damon, who would become the oldest Tiger if he signs with Detroit, made $13 million each of the last four years with the Yankees and hasn't made less than $7 million in a season since 2000, his last year at Kansas City.

Damon clearly doesn't need to be in double-digit millions per year. He's made more than $97 million as a major-leaguer. But with his level of play still high, neither is he looking to become a team's one-year bargain.

The case between him and the Tigers isn't closed, though.

"In our situation," Dombrowski said, "you keep an open mind."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© Copyright 2010 The Detroit News. All rights reserved.

www.detnews.com | Printer-friendly article page

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There seems to be no interest in Johnny Damon. Boras has overplayed his hand.

If the Tigers can get Damon for one year (at $6 million or less), it might not be a bad idea to sign him. He would give them a lead off hitter and a LH bat. But there is no way they should give a multi-year deal to a 36-year-old player. They do not need to repeat the same mistakes of the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clearly they overpaid for Valverde.

Not to toot my own horn, but in my first post in the "Tigers in on Valverde" thread, I called what his salary was going to be. He got fair market value for what a closer gets these days.

Edited by Scottwood

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have absolutely no problem signing Damon for 1 year, with a club option for 2nd year. I don't see the harm in having a proven hitter , from the left side, in the line-up. Even if he's a 3/4 time outfielder, it's not my pocket book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not to toot my own horn, but in my first post in the "Tigers in on Valverde" thread, I called what his salary was going to be. He got fair market value for what a closer gets these days.

He definitely got fair market value. He's > Rodney + $2 mm.

Edited by CapitalTigers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not to toot my own horn, but in my first post in the "Tigers in on Valverde" thread, I called what his salary was going to be. He got fair market value for what a closer gets these days.

Fangraphs' WAR undervalues relievers. It'd be one thing if a few guys were getting overpaid, but every organization "overpays" by their standards for a reliever.

That and the sort of plug 'n chug WAR / salary evaluation they (Dave Cameron) do on everything now have taken that wonderful site down a notch for me. Then that new guy came in and did a great series on sinker/slider pitchers in the minors and why they have to be projected in a different manner, and my faith was restored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fangraphs' WAR undervalues relievers. It'd be one thing if a few guys were getting overpaid, but every organization "overpays" by their standards for a reliever.

I completely agree, and that is a growing sentiment in the sabermetric community by many a people. I think you will see FanGraphs make some adjustments to their reliever calculations in the future.

This writer (Jeremy Greenhouse) wonders if going to WPA/LI makes more sense for WAR.

More on WAR

Greenhouses' articles at the The Baseball Analysts are great.

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/touching_bases/

Edited by Scottwood

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually kind of hoping they sign him now...... at first I thought no way but I'm coming around.

My mom is 80 years old on Thursday and she's always loved Damon, going back to his KC days. She doesn't follow baseball that closely to know all the guys on other teams but she does watch the Tigers every day and she has always had a thing for Damon. She just says "I like the way he plays." Sometimes that's all you need. So sign him up, make mom happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't read through the first two pages so if this has been said I apologize.

Does this Damon scenario sound EXACTLY like the Pudge scenario a couple years ago?

Inflating support when there is none...I have to give it up to Boras, he always seems to increase the market for his clients...but sometimes he fails...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      96,733
    • Total Posts
      2,934,144
  • Who's Online (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

  • Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
×
×
  • Create New...