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Johnny Mac

Jimmy Howard

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Don't pull that "recent" history stuff now.

They've only been keeping the save percentage stat since '83. So if you only want to use save percentage, fine.

that is false, Sawchuk has Save percentage stats starting in 54-55 and stopping in 67-68 so I dont know if they stopped and started again in 83 or what, but Sawchuk has that stat for a lot of seasons. His best season from that point forward was .926 (Which is what Howards is). Im not going to say he is having as good of a season as Sawchuk did back then, but he is clearly having ONE of the best seasons by a red wings goalie. Your anti-Howard stuff is getting comical.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4794

Edited by Johnny Mac

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Roger Crozier hockey statistics & profile at hockeydb.com

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=1537

Its weird, they had the stat from 54-68, then it looks like they stopped, then it shows up again in 70-71 for one season, then goes away and shows up again in 74-75 and 75-76 and then is gone and shows up back again in 81-82

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that is false, Sawchuk has Save percentage stats starting in 54-55 and stopping in 67-68 so I dont know if they stopped and started again in 83 or what, but Sawchuk has that stat for a lot of seasons. His best season from that point forward was .926 (Which is what Howards is). Im not going to say he is having as good of a season as Sawchuk did back then, but he is clearly having ONE of the best seasons by a red wings goalie. Your anti-Howard stuff is getting comical.

Terry Sawchuk hockey statistics & profile at hockeydb.com

It was an unofficial stat before 83, and Sawchuks best years weren't tracked for sv pct at all.

You can't just throw out sv pct numbers and compare them, anyway. You should be more concerned with how that sv% compared to the league average than the raw number itself.

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Roger Crozier hockey statistics & profile at hockeydb.com

Don Edwards hockey statistics & profile at hockeydb.com

Its weird, they had the stat from 54-68, then it looks like they stopped, then it shows up again in 70-71 for one season, then goes away and shows up again in 74-75 and 75-76 and then is gone and shows up back again in 81-82

Thats only because some insane hockey fans went and dug through every newspaper and pulled the save % stats. Huge hockey fans, let me tell you. The official stats are the ones that show up in the 80's.

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It was an unofficial stat before 83, and Sawchuks best years weren't tracked for sv pct at all.

You can't just throw out sv pct numbers and compare them, anyway. You should be more concerned with how that sv% compared to the league average than the raw number itself.

You mean like how Howards is the 3rd best in the league amongst starting goalies? Hasek's was 8th in the league in 01-02 amongst starters. Hasek GAA was also 6th amongst starters in 01-02 while Howards is 3rd best this season.

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You mean like how Howards is the 3rd best in the league amongst starting goalies? Hasek's was 8th in the league in 01-02 amongst starters. Hasek GAA was also 6th amongst starters in 01-02 while Howards is 3rd best this season.

Yes, like that.

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Howard is having a phenomenal regular season. Questions remain:

- will he be able to perform in the playoffs

- does his rebound control suggest his numbers could decline in future years

- will teams start to figure him out, leading to a Mason-like sophomore jinx

- will the Red Wings be able to sign him, and at a reasonable price, after the 2010-11 season.

But those are questions for the future. At this point, I'm grateful that basically he's the MVP of a team that wouldn't be solidly in a playoff position like they currently are if not for him.

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Also, you can't fault the goalie for the team that plays in front of him.

People do that for Osgood in reverse, though. Double standard?

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Howard is having a phenomenal regular season. Questions remain:

- will he be able to perform in the playoffs

- does his rebound control suggest his numbers could decline in future years

- will teams start to figure him out, leading to a Mason-like sophomore jinx

- will the Red Wings be able to sign him, and at a reasonable price, after the 2010-11 season.

But those are questions for the future. At this point, I'm grateful that basically he's the MVP of a team that wouldn't be solidly in a playoff position like they currently are if not for him.

All are fair questions, however I think Howards rebound control is getting overblown on here (especially because a certain poster likes to point out everytime he allows a rebound).

Here is what Nick Lidstrom said about Howard 3 days ago

"You can tell he's in a zone,'' Red Wings captain Nicklas Lidstrom said. "He's playing with great confidence, he's got good positioning, he doesn't give up any bad rebounds. You try to help him out on the second chances, but he's very comfortable in net right now.''

I wouldnt consider it one of his strong attributes, however I think he is at worst average at it. And Id rather have a goalie like him that gives up a rebound every now and then than one like Ozzie now who will give up long slap shots because maybe he is worrying too much about where the rebound goes. He almost always is stopping the first shot, which is real impressive. I dont know if he can keep up this level of play, a sophomore slump wouldnt be too shocking for me, but I dont see his play as a flash in the pan.

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Almost every goalie gives up a bad rebound now and then. Jimmy Howard is just proving how hard it is to be a goalie for the Detroit Red Wings. He puts up ridiculous numbers as a rookie and people still complain about him. Hopefully, he'll earn even more respect around the league (and in Detroit) by taking us deep into the playoffs. Seriously, if he takes us to the Cup this year and anybody complains about him, I'll flip a nut.

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All are fair questions, however I think Howards rebound control is getting overblown on here (especially because a certain poster likes to point out everytime he allows a rebound).

Here is what Nick Lidstrom said about Howard 3 days ago

I wouldnt consider it one of his strong attributes, however I think he is at worst average at it. And Id rather have a goalie like him that gives up a rebound every now and then than one like Ozzie now who will give up long slap shots because maybe he is worrying too much about where the rebound goes. He almost always is stopping the first shot, which is real impressive. I dont know if he can keep up this level of play, a sophomore slump wouldnt be too shocking for me, but I dont see his play as a flash in the pan.

Rebound goals, not rebounds. And if I point it out "everytime" it happens, and youre sick of me pointing it out, what does that say? Howie has the uncanny ability to kick rebounds right into the slot. Also, you really think that Lids is going to cut down his rookie goalie in the press?

Also, if youre sick of hearing **** from me, please stop taking shots at me. Directly, or indirectly.

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Rebound goals, not rebounds. And if I point it out "everytime" it happens, and youre sick of me pointing it out, what does that say? Howie has the uncanny ability to kick rebounds right into the slot. Also, you really think that Lids is going to cut down his rookie goalie in the press?

Also, if youre sick of hearing **** from me, please stop taking shots at me. Directly, or indirectly.

If I pointed out everytime any NHL goalie gave up a rebound it would sound like it happens a lot. That proves nothing.

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Shinma, Buddha joked about you becoming the trok of the Red Wings forum in the GT, but I really hope you don't find yourself becoming so entrenched in proving that Howard isn't as good as his numbers suggest that you actually do slip into trok territory. Why not just enjoy the great season he's having?

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Shinma, Buddha joked about you becoming the trok of the Red Wings forum in the GT, but I really hope you don't find yourself becoming so entrenched in proving that Howard isn't as good as his numbers suggest that you actually do slip into trok territory. Why not just enjoy the great season he's having?

The thing is, I am. I really am. I fully expected the Wings to be out of a playoff spot, and not by just a little by this point in the season. Howard is a big part of that. Its clear that I don't agree that he is the long term solution, I provide a counter point to the "Howie can do no wrong" crowd.

I've severely reduced that amount and frequency of the Howie bashing I've done recently. I should have just left this thread alone, but the "one of the best years in wings history" necessitated a response from me because the absurdity of that comment about a franchise like Detroit was staggering.

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The thing is, I am. I really am. I fully expected the Wings to be out of a playoff spot, and not by just a little by this point in the season. Howard is a big part of that. Its clear that I don't agree that he is the long term solution, I provide a counter point to the "Howie can do no wrong" crowd.

I've severely reduced that amount and frequency of the Howie bashing I've done recently. I should have just left this thread alone, but the "one of the best years in wings history" necessitated a response from me because the absurdity of that comment about a franchise like Detroit was staggering.

Once again, outside of Terry Sawchuk, name a season by a Red Wings goaltender that was better without using wins as your argument? Even when compared to other goalies in the league? I mean no Wing has won the Vezina since 54-55 and Howards save percentage is best recorded I can find of a Wings goalie, even if only official since early 80s, that is still 30 or so years that included 4 cup winning teams. Would saying he has put up one of best seasons by a wings goalie since Terry Sawchuk make that statement sound better to you?

And also, I dont see anyone who says Howard can do no wrong. But numbers dont lie, he has been one of best goalies in NHL this year. I think everyone is just pleasantly surprised with his performance and is riding it. Go read comments from beginning of season if you really think some people on here feel he can do no wrong.

Edited by Johnny Mac

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Yeah, Shin, Wings goalies haven't really been traditionally strong since Sawchuk left. Also, this is one of the first years I can remember that a goalie has carried the Wings. I can't even remember the last time a Wings goalie played this well in the regular season (and yes, Howard's season this year is in fact better than any Hasek regular season performance with Detroit)

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I don't think there is a good argument against the claim that this is one of the best seasons by a Red Wings goaltender in their history.

Whether or not it continues remains to be seen, but Jimmy has been really effective this year.

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Also, this is one of the first years I can remember that a goalie has carried the Wings.

If Howard was carrying the Wings, they wouldn't have been out of a playoff spot for so long. The Wings finally turned it around when Franzen and co. returned from injury not because Howard magically got better.

With that said, you all know where I stand, and this will be my last post in the thread.

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If Howard was carrying the Wings, they wouldn't have been out of a playoff spot for so long. The Wings finally turned it around when Franzen and co. returned from injury not because Howard magically got better.

With that said, you all know where I stand, and this will be my last post in the thread.

You know this thread was started while everyone was hurt? Without him this team would still be fighting to get in the playoffs. Hell, if Osgood did anything in his appearances we could be fighting for the division right now. At 7-8-4, he got us 18 points in 19 games. Especially since he was 1-6-2 his last 9 starts. Thats 4 points in 9 starts. Say he plays average in those starts, say 4-3-2. We would only be 2 points out of the division. And I know what I said about records, but ozzie other numbers match his record with a 2.97 GAA and .890 save percentage. And in his 1-6-2 stretch he gave up 3 or more games every time but 2 games, and one of them was his win.

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If Howard was carrying the Wings, they wouldn't have been out of a playoff spot for so long. The Wings finally turned it around when Franzen and co. returned from injury not because Howard magically got better.

With that said, you all know where I stand, and this will be my last post in the thread.

He carried them while they were out, that's the point. You cannot possibly be serious here.

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man, have I ever been wrong about a guy. I really do hope he plays well in the playoffs because I'd hate to see him get stung with the Fall Guy Award, which casual Red Wing Fans must annoint after every playoff loss. (see Joseph, Curtis)

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If Howard was carrying the Wings, they wouldn't have been out of a playoff spot for so long. The Wings finally turned it around when Franzen and co. returned from injury not because Howard magically got better.

Except that at the mid-way point in the season, the Wings were on pace to net 96 points, which would probably get this team into the play-offs.

So while Wings have turned it on recently, the Wings securing a play-off spot has as much (maybe more?) to do with other teams fading as it does the team getting better with Franzen et. al. The recent good play is probably only going to get them around 5 points more than the pace they were on at the half-way point.

And another thing, how is missing key members of your team over long stretches not supposed to negatively impact the team's W/L record? How does that really demonstrate Howard wasn't having one of the best goaltending seasons in the hostory of the franchise.

With that said, you all know where I stand, and this will be my last post in the thread.

I frankly don't understand the basis for your position, but that is cool.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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Unless Howard turns out to be Dominik Hasek-like in his prime, then his save percentage is not going to be sustainable over the long run. Here are the top save percentages since the lockout:

Puck Prospectus | Unfiltered

Only Vokoun is above .920. So, it is highly likely that Howard is going to regress at some point (though, not necessarily this season or this postseason).

With that said, he still has had an amazing season that will be remembered for a long time. Sure, if we didn't have all of our injuries, we would have made the playoffs without any trouble. But, we did have those injuries and he was a huge reason why we stayed in the hunt and hung around long enough until we got our guys got back healthy.

Whether or not he keeps up this play for an extended period of time is a fair question. But, he has had an outstanding season and no matter how hard I may try, I honestly cannot see an opposing viewpoint to that argument. Its the best one for a Wings goalie that I have ever seen.

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Robert Luongo's 2007 Season - 2nd in Vezina, 2nd in Hart, 2nd in Pearson

.921 save % (4th in NHL)

2.28 GAA (6th)

Jimmy Howard's 2010 Season to Date

.926 save % (3rd)

2.24 GAA (4th)

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