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Deleterious

2010 NBA Trade Deadline

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1) But honestly, Dumars isn't going anywhere until they sell the team or the team continues to flounder...

2) and make no mistake about it, since Feb 1st 2009 they have floundered horrendously. If they blow the offseason and lottery pick and stink again next season..the clamoring for Dumars head will be long and loud..

3) I mean seriously, do you want Joe Dumars wasting lottery picks..do you feel confident having Joe Dumars drafting top 5 talent for you?? not just once maybe twice..

1) I think this is correct.

2) This also is, factually, correct. But if this is supposed to be a transition... then isn't this to be expected? The floundering, I mean. Dumars, and everbody else's hope was to NOT flounder, while still making transition moves. It didn't happen as Curry & AI flopped, and injuries have F'd up 09/10, so far. But I don't see that as a cause to lose faith, or make a point against, Dumars. I mean, are you saying that the Pistons are NEVER allowed to flounder? Is that your standard? Because that does not make sense to me.

3) I'm not certain. One caveat I have on this is that all his early 1st round flops were also early in his GM career, and I think he's picked significantly better since then. Not to say he's perfect... but to answer your question: I don't know. I'm willing to see how he does with his next lottery pick, and judge him on that, then to go by his earlier experience. I actually have confidence that he'll pick the right guy in the next draft. And I like the job he's done as a whole, too much to throw him to the curb based on an upcoming lottery pick or two. I'm willing to chance his drafting acumen, so to speak...

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1) I think this is correct.

2) This also is, factually, correct. But if this is supposed to be a transition... then isn't this to be expected? The floundering, I mean. Dumars, and everbody else's hope was to NOT flounder, while still making transition moves. It didn't happen as Curry & AI flopped, and injuries have F'd up 09/10, so far. But I don't see that as a cause to lose faith, or make a point against, Dumars. I mean, are you saying that the Pistons are NEVER allowed to flounder? Is that your standard? Because that does not make sense to me.

3) I'm not certain. One caveat I have on this is that all his early 1st round flops were also early in his GM career, and I think he's picked significantly better since then. Not to say he's perfect... but to answer your question: I don't know. I'm willing to see how he does with his next lottery pick, and judge him on that, then to go by his earlier experience. I actually have confidence that he'll pick the right guy in the next draft. And I like the job he's done as a whole, too much to throw him to the curb based on an upcoming lottery pick or two. I'm willing to chance his drafting acumen, so to speak...

History is often a pretty clear indication of future perfromance.

Vision is a mandatory skill when building sports franchises..I have often sighted the Scotty Bowman theory, "better to trade a player a year early rather than a year late". Revisionist history says..better to have kept Billups and allow Hamilton to leave as FA and not re-sign Maxiel..I mean is it a stretch to have made that evaluation?? Billups mentoring Stuckey..with both of those players interchangeable at PG/SG..now thats easy to see now..but they pay shrewd talent evaluators to make those calls..instead he was stubborn and not only made one bad move but 3..in retrospect..was cap room so important if you were spending it on CV and Gordon..

The single biggest beneft of the imcopmpetence..they WILL be in the lottery at least once if not 2X or 3X..and if executed correctly, it will facilitate a rebuilding of the roster..but you are asking Dumars to do something he has yet to demonstrate the capacity to do well..evaluate young, very high end, lottery talent.

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History is often a pretty clear indication of future performance...

Which history should I choose then?

A) Selecting Rodney White, Cleaves and Darko?

B) Or selecting Delfino, Prince, Amir Johnson, Okur, Daye, Jerebko, Maxiell, and Stuckey?

At this point, I'll stick with option B.

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B isn't really all that much better. That said, I think you need to select C) all of the above.

For draft position: B is excellent.

I actually prefer (D), which is: "Hopefully (B) is an indication that if Joe D is in position to make (A)-type selections again, that he won't repeat past (A)'s performance."

C) Is simply for historical accuracy. It cannot be used for future projections.

And... just as a counterpoint to Sportz4's "Past performance is an indication" comment:

In accounting and finance, the correct statement is: Past performance does not guarantee future performance.

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Which history should I choose then?

A) Selecting Rodney White, Cleaves and Darko?

B) Or selecting Delfino, Prince, Amir Johnson, Okur, Daye, Jerebko, Maxiell, and Stuckey?

At this point, I'll stick with option B.

B) is kind of a mish mash..I mean Price and Okur, (which I have mentioned many times as the only two bonafide NBA starters) Dumars drafted in the decade.

Amir Johnsom, Jerebko, Daye, Maxiel..blech..9/10/11/12 men..that will help what team win when..not to mentioned what Dumars passed up either waiting for that NBA trash to develop (which it never did) or players he could of.. or should of drafted instead.

i.e Del and I camapaigned before and during the draft to take Lawson instead of the Brad Sellers twin Daye..but no..Bynum clogged his spot..good choice..ya right..

How about keep Summers, trade Buddinger..brilliance..

How about devote 4 season to the foul machine Amir Johnson..

Stuckey.. we all seem to now know.. is a SG..so we now are stuck with a roster of 4 SG to the tune of 23MM and zero PG..

Shall I continue..this thread is like a broken record.

Too many give credit for the second rate bench garbage that doesn't develop, rather than the fact 2 real NBA caliber starters have been drafted in 10 years..

Edited by sportz4life

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Tough call, seems like some of the better, recent rebuilding jobs, have eminated from reasonably unknown, fresh GM hires.

Presti, Pritchard, Kahn (seems to be off to a decent job of amassing talent and revamping his roster), my personal favorite Morey.

The Pistons need to think outside the box. But honestly, Dumars isn't going anywhere until they sell the team or the team continues to flounder..and make no mistake about it, since Feb 1st 2009 they have floundered horrendously. If they blow the offseason and lottery pick and stink again next season..the clamoring for Dumars head will be long and loud..

I mean seriously, do you want Joe Dumars wasting lottery picks..do you feel confident having Joe Dumars drafting top 5 talent for you?? not just once maybe twice..

I thought your gold standard of measuring a GM was championships.

Anyway, I think Dumars has pushed about every wrong button since hiring Curry but I look at the Knicks, the Celtics (pre-KG), the Bulls and the Sixers (to name a few teams of some tradition) if I want to see what floundering looks like. They could be well on their way to matching those kinds of years of darkness but their showing since your date of Feb 1st, 2009 doesn't yet qualify.

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Sooooo.... this topic turned into a Joe D debate. Back on the topic!

Are the Pistons even going to make a trade? Are any of their players even tradeable?

I'm starting to think the answer is no on both fronts and I'm beginning to get depressed about it.

If they can trade Rip for a ball rack I'd be incredibly stoked.

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Interesting tidbit from Marc Stein. I am going to cut up the article to just hit the important parts.

NBA: Houston Rockets could join Chris Bosh chase - ESPN

What we did hear, though, is that the Houston Rockets have made it known that they would be willing to trade for Bosh immediately … even if they don't get a guarantee they can re-sign him this summer.
This season's success without marquee names also suggests that the Rockets have the requisite stash of assets -- depending on whom they're willing to surrender from a group that includes Aaron Brooks, Carl Landry, Trevor Ariza and Luis Scola -- to assemble a legit deal for Toronto to consider. It's likewise believed that Houston can put a decent package together without insisting that McGrady's mammoth $22.5 million salary has to be part of it, which complicates matters even though it's an expiring deal because so many more players have to be included to make the trade math work.

I wonder if Houston thinks Yao is done. If not, I imagine Scola would be included in the deal. Personally, I would do everything I could to keep Scola and move Yao. A Bosh/Scola combo is very nice. Plus, I don't want to base the success of my season on Yao and his fragile feet.

There was a second interesting point brought up. Looks like Minnesota may be interested in moving Jefferson.

There also were some rumbles in Boise that the Timberwolves are prepared to start exploring the trade market for Al Jefferson amid questions about Jefferson's compatibility with Kevin Love and how he fits in Minnesota's more free-flowing triangle offense under new coach Kurt Rambis. A case can be made that either Jefferson or Love -- undeniably good players individually who are still both developing -- would be helped greatly by playing next to a more athletic sidekick no matter what the system.

When we checked it out, though, one source with knowledge of the Wolves' thinking insisted any such rumblings about the centerpiece of Minnesota's Kevin Garnett trade with Boston in July 2007 are off target and Big Al is staying put.

The consistent message out of 'Sota has been that any significant changes are on hold until after this season at the earliest, when the Wolves will rely on a possible $13 million in salary-cap space to console themselves following a painful first season for Rambis and new team president David Kahn.

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Scola is tough to play against, reasonably priced and the type of player you win with..Toronto would really do well if they landed Scola and another piece to go with Hedo, Bargiani and Calderon.

Yao should be fine..if Ilgauskas can recover so can Yao..Morey is pretty shrewd, he drafts very.. very well..Brooks, Buddinger,Landry he is the anti Dumars..

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after watching DEN/CLE and watching Aafalo for the 10X this season, it ,makes me laugh..one of Dumars most functional, useful draft choics, a solid pierce to a winning team..and once again..he GAVE him away.. for nothing..a bag of manure and old MJ versus the Bad Boys 1988 playoff tape and some Scottie Pippen headache remedy.

You guys keep telling me what a shrewd talent evaluator JD is..he keeps traidng the wrong guys, the team has lost 11 in a row and has zero cap room..the emperor has no clothes..

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If I am Toronto, I think I would rather have Landry than Scola. Brooks and Landry/Scola would be an enticing offer but Toronto doesn't really need a point guard. Ariza and Landry/Scola is just not enough. I think the best thing for Toronto to do would be to try and unload Turkoglu's contract with Bosh. And Houston could make that work because of McGrady. So you could do Bosh+ Turkoglu for Landry/Scola+McGrady+maybe a draft pick or something. That gives Toronto more flexibility to make other moves in the future because without Bosh, that roster has some long term contracts and not a lot of potential. Kind of like the Pistons right now.

Or if you would rather have Aaron Brooks as your point guard and you want to hang on to Turkoglu, you could unload Calderon's contract by doing a Bosh+Calderon for Brooks+McGrady+Landry/Scola.

Edited by Hart

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after watching DEN/CLE and watching Aafalo for the 10X this season, it ,makes me laugh..one of Dumars most functional, useful draft choics, a solid pierce to a winning team..and once again..he GAVE him away.. for nothing..a bag of manure and old MJ versus the Bad Boys 1988 playoff tape and some Scottie Pippen headache remedy.

You guys keep telling me what a shrewd talent evaluator JD is..he keeps traidng the wrong guys, the team has lost 11 in a row and has zero cap room..the emperor has no clothes..

I don't know what ten games you watched Afflalo but his numbers are not that impressive on the surface. He has had an uptick in his shooting percentage this year and I am sure that is thanks in large part to Carmelo commanding so much attention. But I see him as a borderline rotation player on a good team.

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http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20100110#STORY_23566

Source: Lakers to Offer Bynum for Bosh

A Lakers source told me the team had its sights set high, as usual, and planned to target the possible acquisition of Chris Bosh when it got closer to the 3 p.m. Feb. 18 trade deadline, and the Raptors might be more likely to move their Olympian/All-Star while still entitled to compensation.

It commonly is believed Bosh almost certain is to flee Toronto after this season, when he has the right to opt out of the final year ($17.1 million) of his contract.

My source believes the Lakers will offer Andrew Bynum for Bosh (if they haven’t done so already) well before the deadline expires. In itself, the one-for-one swap is impossible to make. Bynum’s “base year” essentially allows L.A. to take back but half of his salary this year ($12.5M). Of course, that restriction is lifted when next year’s salary ($13.7M) activates come July 1, at which time a sign-and-trade transaction would be feasible.

Asked by e-mail about all of the above and whether the Raptors and Lakers have discussed a Bosh-Bynum proposal, team president Bryan Colangelo, who surely is being contacted on a daily basis regarding the availability of his franchise player — especially when the team was 11-17 — he replied in kind:

“For the record, I am not actively seeking a deal or discussing Bosh with any team, much less the Lakers.

“I haven’t traded him yet and our position has been the same. We will not make a deal just to make a deal. Our intention is to keep him here long term.

“Additionally, I have not yet offered an extension as Dwyane Wade and LeBron James both received [from their respective teams]. So technically he has not said no.

“I honestly don’t think C.B. knows what the future holds, or what he wants to do, so I would say we’re still in the game as far as his pending free agency.”

Probably the best deal I have seen so far for Bosh.

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Sooooo.... this topic turned into a Joe D debate. Back on the topic!

Are the Pistons even going to make a trade? Are any of their players even tradeable?

I'm starting to think the answer is no on both fronts and I'm beginning to get depressed about it.

If they can trade Rip for a ball rack I'd be incredibly stoked.

Unfortunately, Rip is untradeable.

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http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20100110#STORY_23568

Pacers Decline Jefferson for Granger

Minnesota Timberwolves general manager David Kahn recently offered forward Al Jefferson to the Indiana Pacers for forward Danny Granger, but was immediately rebuffed, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

While Pacers president Larry Bird remains determined to build around Granger, sources say Kahn has become increasingly dubious on making Jefferson a cornerstone for the Timberwolves.

So far, Kahn has tried to undo almost everything from the Kevin McHale regime, and trading Jefferson would be another significant step in that direction.

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I wouldn't do that either if I were Bird. jefferson's health scares me.

Pacers have their big man already.

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Unfortunately, Rip is untradeable.

I fear this is the case but part of me still believes it can happen. Rip is better than he is showing down but he is suffering on a bad team. I am hoping there is a contender who will take him at the deadline.

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I think we are stuck with him. Hopefully this summer we can move Prince. Next years trade deadline at the latest.

If we truly are stuck with him, then we have to move Gordon and maybe even Stuckey. I would much rather keep either of those guys than Rip. However, I do believe Rip still has a few good years left in him and can be a solid starting shooting guard, albeit overpaid. Although many on this board believe Gordon is overpaid, I still think he has trade value at the deadline to a playoff team. I like Gordon a lot and would prefer him over Rip but Dumars has to recognize his mistake and move one of these guys.

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If we truly are stuck with him, then we have to move Gordon and maybe even Stuckey. I would much rather keep either of those guys than Rip. However, I do believe Rip still has a few good years left in him and can be a solid starting shooting guard, albeit overpaid. Although many on this board believe Gordon is overpaid, I still think he has trade value at the deadline to a playoff team. I like Gordon a lot and would prefer him over Rip but Dumars has to recognize his mistake and move one of these guys.

Well, from a talent point of view he has value. It's just if you want to pay him $12.5 million a year. And its for 2 years after this, with a partial gurantee on the third year. That is a lot of contract to eat. It doesn't help that he has only played 9 games this year.

I don't want Gordon gone. I don't think you could trade him anyway. Nobody was going to match the offer Detroit gave him. He has done nothing this year to show he was worth it. So I can't see people lining up for him now. It's Rip or nothing in my opinion.

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I think we are stuck with him. Hopefully this summer we can move Prince. Next years trade deadline at the latest.

Joe missed the boat on prince about 2 years ago.

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Joe missed the boat on prince about 2 years ago.

You can insert just about any player name into that sentence and it's true.

His expiring contract will have some value though. But probably not till the deadline.

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More trade chatter (if that's OK) - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN

An assumption in circulation all season held that Detroit would try to move Rip Hamilton before any other Piston because there isn't enough room in one rotation for Rip, Ben Gordon and Rodney Stuckey.

The reality is that Tayshaun Prince would appear to be the most likely of Detroit's championship holdovers to be dealt first, since Prince possesses the more cap-friendly contract.

Only one season remains on Prince's deal after this season at $11.1 million. The Pistons, furthermore, also have a few young guys they like (Austin Daye, Jonas Jerebko and DaJuan Summers) who can play some 3.

Matters are complicated by the fact that injuries have limited both Piston mainstays to nine games each this season. But it's clear that the Pistons have to make a move for a true point guard or a dependable big man ... not necessarily to bust out of this 12-game losing streak but for their long-term future.

"I know there are a lot of conversations going on," one source said. "I'm sure Tay's in play."

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