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2010 NBA Trade Deadline

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I wonder if this means they actually found someone to take Boozer off their hands?

Definitely a good possibility. I have heard that Utah might also be interested in Morris Peterson.

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This is not a rumor or anything I have heard anyone talking about. Just something I have been thinking about.

Cleveland Gets:

Rip Hamilton

Kwame Brown

Detroit Gets:

Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Delonte West

JJ Hickson

The trade works.

Except for about every week on realgm.com some Cleveland fan post some permutation of Rip for Ilgauskas.

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Except for about every week on realgm.com some Cleveland fan post some permutation of Rip for Ilgauskas.

The point was the two teams were not talking. The point was this wasn't some inside info from some journalist with actual contacts on either team. Crazy people posting the idea on a message board doesn't give the idea any validity.

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New England with Tony Eason

Tony Eason retired in 1990, Bill Parcells took over the Patriots in 1993, left in 1997 to the Jets. You don't have command of the facts, your arguments are fruitless. Parcells failed in NE, failed in NYJ, failed in Dallas.

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No problem. Dumars doesn't compare to the GREATEST GM in the NHL over the past 20 years, possibly all time. No debate there, but what other GM's have had the success that Holland has had? It would be like complaining that wasn't Michael Jordan...really not fair to compare IMO.

Holland had an open checkbook for most of his run and could outspend his competitors to consolidate talent, Dumars has came in under budget during his tenure. I don't think it's fair to compare a GM of a team outspending then next franchise 2-1, to a team that was competing and winning a chamipionship will being in the 10-20 range of payroll in their league. I mean as things normalize in the next few years in the NHL lets see how clever Holland turns out to be, not doing so good this year for example.

Dumars took over a dying/dead franchise and built it into a steady winner, have his drafts been great? No, but comparitively to other teams GM's he's done well at the spot he's picked from. His trades/free agent moves have panned out over the years, lets not write off Gordon/Villanueva just yet, Dumars master plan wasn't to win the title this year with these guys.

Edited by DrWho17

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Definitely a good possibility. I have heard that Utah might also be interested in Morris Peterson.

Well, that would make sense for the Hornets for sure. They seem to be in near fire sale mode, but they have all those bad contracts.

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Even if one gives all the credit in the world Dumars accomplished up until 2008, I don't think it changes the fact that he has made some very curious choices since then.

This team should have been in rebuild mode for a year and a half, and I am not convinced they are in a better position today versus then. Or if they are in a better position to rebuild, I think they really ought to be in a much better position at this point.

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Even if one gives all the credit in the world Dumars accomplished up until 2008, I don't think it changes the fact that he has made some very curious choices since then.

This team should have been in rebuild mode for a year and a half, and I am not convinced they are in a better position today versus then. Or if they are in a better position to rebuild, I think they really ought to be in a much better position at this point.

Yea so do 25 other teams. If you look at the NBA very few teams ever reach the top. I just think people here are underestimating the job Dumars has done, look at the drafts from others at the Pistons position, the reality is whether a player turns out or not corrrelates by where they were selected in the draft, and the Pistons usually are selecting at the end of the rounds.

Who Dumars is has impact within the league as well, Detroit is a destination that some players want to come to moreso then the city/temperature deserves, I think that's a Dumars factor.

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Holland had an open checkbook for most of his run and could outspend his competitors to consolidate talent, Dumars has came in under budget during his tenure. I don't think it's fair to compare a GM of a team outspending then next franchise 2-1, to a team that was competing and winning a chamipionship will being in the 10-20 range of payroll in their league. I mean as things normalize in the next few years in the NHL lets see how clever Holland turns out to be, not doing so good this year for example.

Dumars took over a dying/dead franchise and built it into a steady winner, have his drafts been great? No, but comparitively to other teams GM's he's done well at the spot he's picked from. His trades/free agent moves have panned out over the years, lets not write off Gordon/Villanueva just yet, Dumars master plan wasn't to win the title this year with these guys.

Not a very strong comparison whatsoever...look at the players Holland drafted and developed and look at the players Dumars drafted and developed..look at how Holland tranistioned era's, compared to Dumars..it's not even up for discussion, multiple championships, one championship, multiple succesful draft choices, one solid draft choice..remove the money component and it's still no contest.

When during the last 13 years have the Red Wings ever deteriorated into puddle of aimless disrepair.

Edited by sportz4life

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Why did the wings payroll often double the next closest competitor if it wasn't necessary? Holland has really 1 championship under his belt, he took over a championship team in 98 that repeated in his first year, 98/02 were also Bowmans players and with Bowman as coach. I'll give him 2007-2008, great good job.

As I look at the standings today, the Wings are out of the playoffs, what new exciting young players has Holland drafted that are ready to fill in? Looking at their roster it's pretty long in the tooth isn't it?

I don't really see any major contributors other the Datsuk/Zetterberg, and they were both low picks the wings could afford to take and buy out later. Kronwall is there only #1 pick on the roster it seems and that was from 2000, Kenny Holland needs to be fired I guess.

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Why did the wings payroll often double the next closest competitor if it wasn't necessary? Holland has really 1 championship under his belt, he took over a championship team in 98 that repeated in his first year, 98/02 were also Bowmans players and with Bowman as coach. I'll give him 2007-2008, great good job.

As I look at the standings today, the Wings are out of the playoffs, what new exciting young players has Holland drafted that are ready to fill in? Looking at their roster it's pretty long in the tooth isn't it?

I don't really see any major contributors other the Datsuk/Zetterberg, and they were both low picks the wings could afford to take and buy out later. Kronwall is there only #1 pick on the roster it seems and that was from 2000, Kenny Holland needs to be fired I guess.

Really..pretty shortsighted, so the Stuart, Franzen, Cleary, Helm, Fillpula, Kronwall, Ericsonn, Hudler infusions, nothing..LOL..

The decisions on where to spend the money and who to spend it on in the uncapped years..nothing..money doesn't equate success..ask the Rangers and the Knicks.

Not only has Holland drafted a squadron more players that have contributed at the NHL level than Dumars has in the NBA..he has done it without 1st round draft choices in numerous seasons. Heck the players from the system he traded are superior to those that Dumars has drafted.

To credit Bowman for Holland's succes is inaccurate..was he a part of it..yep..is Scotty Bowman the shrewest coach, motivator and talent evaluator in sports history..yep..very possibly..but he wasn't in charge of any of the draft choices, player development or trades..he had imput on trades, but the construction of the deals..all Holland.

Dumars had a 6 year run..with the same players, he added very little talent prior or since, to blame the salary cap for horrible talent procurement and evaluation is a misnomer. I mean one starter in a decade?? A chimpanzee throwing darts at a list could do that..

Edited by sportz4life

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Yea so do 25 other teams. If you look at the NBA very few teams ever reach the top. I just think people here are underestimating the job Dumars has done, look at the drafts from others at the Pistons position, the reality is whether a player turns out or not corrrelates by where they were selected in the draft, and the Pistons usually are selecting at the end of the rounds.

Who Dumars is has impact within the league as well, Detroit is a destination that some players want to come to moreso then the city/temperature deserves, I think that's a Dumars factor.

The #3 pick was that the end of the round..was the #15 pick, maybe the #8 pick..plus the NBA is the easiest of all drafts to improve your draft position either in draft position or quantitiy of picks..as in moving out of the first round into the second round to draft Walter Sharpe, trading the rights to Chase Budinger..etc..shall we go back to 2000 and discuss the debacle that was the Piston drafts in the decade.

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Yea so do 25 other teams. If you look at the NBA very few teams ever reach the top. I just think people here are underestimating the job Dumars has done, look at the drafts from others at the Pistons position, the reality is whether a player turns out or not corrrelates by where they were selected in the draft, and the Pistons usually are selecting at the end of the rounds.

This commentary does not address the concerns I raised.

Since 2008, can one honestly claim the Pistons have done a good job rebuilding?

What is the direction of this team? I frankly don't see one.

I like Joe Dumars, and I have the utmost respect for the job he has done. But other than trading Chauncey Billups, and maybe signing Ben Wallace, what move either has worked out well or makes sense from a rebuilding standpoint since 2008?

And bear in mind the cap space derived from dealing Chauncey has been parlayed into singing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villenueva, two guys who frankly aren't good enough to build a team around AND play positions that the Pistons are relatively deep at. So the one move they made that I think made sense from a rebuild standpoint was then applied on two guys who, in aggregate, have larger and longer contract than Chauncey, aren't cornerstone pieces IMHO, and didn't fill a team need while creating a team need at the 1. It doesn't make sense to me.

Are these unfair questions or is my commentary unfair?

Who Dumars is has impact within the league as well, Detroit is a destination that some players want to come to moreso then the city/temperature deserves, I think that's a Dumars factor.

How much money did this save the team when they signed Gordon or Villenueva?

Setting that aside, presuming this factor exists, do you think that alone or primarily is a good reason to keep Joe as GM?

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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Out of the four major sports, the NBA is the league that I think takes the least skill as a general manager. So much is dependent on having an opportunity to nab that one superstar player. If you get a chance to get that guy, the coach, the players, and the GM will look good, even if they really suck.

With that said, Dumars had a chance for a superstar player and botched the pick. I don't blame him for passing on Wade or Bosh. I do blame him for passing on the obvious pick at the time...Carmelo. The Pistons were able to overcome this mistake a good chunk of the decade but now it has finally caught up to them.

Since the Darko pick, I would say Dumars has been fairly average in the draft...some hits and some misses. If Darko was his biggest mistake, his second biggest mistake was signing Rip to an extension last year. I can understand the Chauncey trade but their is really no way to justify that extension for Rip. The Darko pick and the Rip extension were by fair his two biggest mistakes.

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The #3 pick was that the end of the round..was the #15 pick, maybe the #8 pick..plus the NBA is the easiest of all drafts to improve your draft position either in draft position or quantitiy of picks..as in moving out of the first round into the second round to draft Walter Sharpe, trading the rights to Chase Budinger..etc..shall we go back to 2000 and discuss the debacle that was the Piston drafts in the decade.

All that's good and well but put his results up against what NBA mortals are doing or have done over the same time frame. Do you forget the roster full of bad contracts he shed? What about getting Ben, trading Stack, adding Rip, Rasheed, McDyess and picking up Billups for almost nothing? What about the cold-blooded move of firing Carlisle and bringing in Brown?

I can't defend much of what he's done since firing Flip though. It's been one bad move after another.

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I do blame him for passing on the obvious pick at the time...Carmelo.

I absolutely don't blame Dumars for this. I would have LOVED for them to have taken ANYONE else that was picked in the first 5 picks, but the fact at the time is we had Prince, and Prince had gotten a lot better that season (although it is obvious that Carmelo is better). Dumars did what I believe any other GM in his position would have done (with the current roster he had at the time). As a matter of fact, I heard interviews with other GM's that praised Darko's potential. I heard interviews from players that watched him work out. Maybe they were all blowing sunshine up our rear ends, but I still can understand why you would take that gamble on a guy like Darko IMO.

Dumars deserves to be criticized for the Darko pick, but only because of hindsight. I'm not sure anyone predicted the talent that would be in that draft!

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All that's good and well but put his results up against what NBA mortals are doing or have done over the same time frame. Do you forget the roster full of bad contracts he shed? What about getting Ben, trading Stack, adding Rip, Rasheed, McDyess and picking up Billups for almost nothing? What about the cold-blooded move of firing Carlisle and bringing in Brown?

I can't defend much of what he's done since firing Flip though. It's been one bad move after another.

Check my posts about JD..I have praised all that he did prior to 2005. That being said, the excuses are old, the body of work since is poor, the draft record for the decade is unacceptable..compared to anyone employed or fired.

The picks I mentioned for the record.

#2 Darko Milicic

#8 Rodney White

#15 Rodney Stuckey

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Out of the four major sports, the NBA is the league that I think takes the least skill as a general manager. So much is dependent on having an opportunity to nab that one superstar player. If you get a chance to get that guy, the coach, the players, and the GM will look good, even if they really suck.

With that said, Dumars had a chance for a superstar player and botched the pick. I don't blame him for passing on Wade or Bosh. I do blame him for passing on the obvious pick at the time...Carmelo. The Pistons were able to overcome this mistake a good chunk of the decade but now it has finally caught up to them.

Since the Darko pick, I would say Dumars has been fairly average in the draft...some hits and some misses. If Darko was his biggest mistake, his second biggest mistake was signing Rip to an extension last year. I can understand the Chauncey trade but their is really no way to justify that extension for Rip. The Darko pick and the Rip extension were by fair his two biggest mistakes.

One hit since 2003..and I am being generous, Stuckey..

Who were the other hits..

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The Lakers, Spurs and Pistons drafts 2002-2008.

Lakers

Kareem Rush

Brian Cook

Luke Walton

Sasha Vujacic

Marcus Douthit

Andrew Bynum

Ronny Turiaf

Von Wafer

Jordan Farmar

Cheick Samb

J.R. Pinnock

Javaris Crittenton

Marc Gasol

Joe Crawford

Spurs

John Salmons

Luis Scola

Randy Holcomb

Leandro Barbosa

Romain Sato

Sergei Karaulov

Damir Markota

Ian Mahinmi

Beno Udrih

Tiago Splitter

Marcus Williams

Giorgos Printezis

George Hill

Goran Dragic

James Gist

Pistons

Darko Milicic

Carlos Delfino

Andreas Gliniadakis

Jason Maxiell

Amir Johnson

Alex Acker

Rickey Paulding

Rodney Stuckey

Arron Afflalo

Sammy Mejia

Will Blalock

D.J. White

Deron Washington

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I absolutely don't blame Dumars for this. I would have LOVED for them to have taken ANYONE else that was picked in the first 5 picks, but the fact at the time is we had Prince, and Prince had gotten a lot better that season (although it is obvious that Carmelo is better). Dumars did what I believe any other GM in his position would have done (with the current roster he had at the time). As a matter of fact, I heard interviews with other GM's that praised Darko's potential. I heard interviews from players that watched him work out. Maybe they were all blowing sunshine up our rear ends, but I still can understand why you would take that gamble on a guy like Darko IMO.

Dumars deserves to be criticized for the Darko pick, but only because of hindsight. I'm not sure anyone predicted the talent that would be in that draft!

The Pistons got caught up in the Darko hype like everyone else. I think they even created a lot of the hype themselves. Maybe his potential really was great...I don't know. But you can take a guy based on potential in certain cases. But when you have a sure fire star on the board like Carmelo, you don't pass that up.

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The Lakers, Spurs and Pistons drafts 2002-2008.

Lakers

Kareem Rush

Brian Cook

Luke Walton

Sasha Vujacic

Marcus Douthit

Andrew Bynum

Ronny Turiaf

Von Wafer

Jordan Farmar

Cheick Samb

J.R. Pinnock

Javaris Crittenton

Marc Gasol

Joe Crawford

Spurs

John Salmons

Luis Scola

Randy Holcomb

Leandro Barbosa

Romain Sato

Sergei Karaulov

Damir Markota

Ian Mahinmi

Beno Udrih

Tiago Splitter

Marcus Williams

Giorgos Printezis

George Hill

Goran Dragic

James Gist

Pistons

Darko Milicic

Carlos Delfino

Andreas Gliniadakis

Jason Maxiell

Amir Johnson

Alex Acker

Rickey Paulding

Rodney Stuckey

Arron Afflalo

Sammy Mejia

Will Blalock

D.J. White

Deron Washington

I knew this, comparatively Dumars looks good against the other "top GM's". In the NBA position in the draft is very important. You can point at Darko draft as Dumars going for it, didn't work out but it was considered the best choice at the time, White/Cleaves didn't pan out, but their drafts as a whole were clunkers. If you look at the other teams you will see some real clunkers, 1 player can make a GM look great, Dumars never really has had that player and that's what makes his accomplishment that much better. How good would the Lakers be without Kobe, Boston without Garnett, Cleveland without Lebron, San Antonio withough Duncan?

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I knew this, comparatively Dumars looks good against the other "top GM's". In the NBA position in the draft is very important. You can point at Darko draft as Dumars going for it, didn't work out but it was considered the best choice at the time, White/Cleaves didn't pan out, but their drafts as a whole were clunkers. If you look at the other teams you will see some real clunkers, 1 player can make a GM look great, Dumars never really has had that player and that's what makes his accomplishment that much better. How good would the Lakers be without Kobe, Boston without Garnett, Cleveland without Lebron, San Antonio withough Duncan?

You need to look closer, evaluate who has played in the league from those drafts and Dumars looks worse not better.

Plus why stop at 2002?? include the entire decade, he worked the entire decade. Even leaving out the Rodney White mess, he still ends up a bad 3rd.

Edited by sportz4life

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