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Deleterious

2010 NBA Trade Deadline

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Go look at who won and played in the finals from 2004 through 2008.

SA, BOS, CLE, LAL, DAL, MIA.

Every team made roster revsions to get there and win or lose to try and stay there..even SA..

Miami got worse after the championship, Cleveland hasn't made it back and has arguably taken a step back, and Dallas has gotten significantly worse after their finals appearance.

You did say that Dumars should have made moves after their finals appearance 2005, so tell me what significant roster changes the Lakers, SA, and Boston made the year after they were in the finals, and if the roster changes were so good, why did it not make them "back to back" champs?

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Miami got worse after the championship, Cleveland hasn't made it back and has arguably taken a step back, and Dallas has gotten significantly worse after their finals appearance.

You did say that Dumars should have made moves after their finals appearance 2005, so tell me what significant roster changes the Lakers, SA, and Boston made the year after they were in the finals, and if the roster changes were so good, why did it not make them "back to back" champs?

NBobody was back to back and the only multiple time champ was SA..but look at theplayers SA adds to their roster. the LAL redid their entire roster except ofr Kobe between 2004 and 2009..

The point..nothing ventured, nothing gained..Dumars still, hasn;t made a shrewd move, since 2004..share one shrewd move..in 5 years.

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Each of them has always had a superstar.

That is what stood out to the list of teams above. Each of them have 1 guy that is a superstar, and when most those teams were in the finals they had a #2 guy that was better than any player we had on our roster.

For the Pistons to make so many ECF's, and NBA Finals appearances the past 6 years is simply AMAZING, given the lack of big games that have been on the roster.

I'm still unsure why anyone would claim that Dumars is worthy of being fired or should be fired.

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NBobody was back to back and the only multiple time champ was SA..but look at theplayers SA adds to their roster. the LAL redid their entire roster except ofr Kobe between 2004 and 2009..

The point..nothing ventured, nothing gained..Dumars still, hasn;t made a shrewd move, since 2004..share one shrewd move..in 5 years.

You mean besides going to 6 ECF and 2 NBA Finals? The Lakers haven't come close to the success of the Pistons since 2004.

It is easy to say that the Pistons failed to make the correct moves, but they were getting pretty good odds of winning the title every year from 2005-2008. The Lakers weren't contenders until recently.

On top of that, how hard is it to build around the best player the NBA has seen since Jordan? Kobe is probably a top 5 all time NBA player (at least he will be if he can keep this up another 2-3 years)

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You mean besides going to 6 ECF and 2 NBA Finals? The Lakers haven't come close to the success of the Pistons since 2004.

It is easy to say that the Pistons failed to make the correct moves, but they were getting pretty good odds of winning the title every year from 2005-2008. The Lakers weren't contenders until recently.

On top of that, how hard is it to build around the best player the NBA has seen since Jordan? Kobe is probably a top 5 all time NBA player (at least he will be if he can keep this up another 2-3 years)

What are you talking about? Since 2004:

Laker championships = 1

Piston championships = 0

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SA didn't add anyone worth a **** until this season. Their success has always been built around Duncan/Parker/Ginobili.

Considering Parker and Ginobili were young and inexpensive during part of the run..why would they have moved them..Bonner, Hill and Blair are better complimentary players than anyone Dumars has added...others Popovich drafted were Devin Brown and Beno Udrich..youmake fewere changes..when you WIN the titile more than once and oyur nucleaus is young.

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What are you talking about? Since 2004:

Laker championships = 1

Piston championships = 0

Pistons won in 2004. I was counting that.

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You mean besides going to 6 ECF and 2 NBA Finals? The Lakers haven't come close to the success of the Pistons since 2004.

It is easy to say that the Pistons failed to make the correct moves, but they were getting pretty good odds of winning the title every year from 2005-2008. The Lakers weren't contenders until recently.

On top of that, how hard is it to build around the best player the NBA has seen since Jordan? Kobe is probably a top 5 all time NBA player (at least he will be if he can keep this up another 2-3 years)

Pretty hard..what good did it do them prior to 2009..he wanted to be traded..yet..the LAL..rebuilt their entire roster between 2004 and 2009.and now they can compete on a perennial basis for the remainder of Kobe's career.

The Pistons just have the remember when team..and are searching for how to return to glory..

Lastly since 2004..who has more titles..LAL or Detroit??

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Dumars shouldn't be fired, yet. I feel his past accomplishments get him 3 years to rebuild. This was year one, so two more years. If they aren't back in the top 4 of the conference by then, its time to talk about getting rid of him.

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Pretty hard..what good did it do them prior to 2009..he wanted to be traded..yet..the LAL..rebuilt their entire roster between 2004 and 2009.and now they can compete on a perennial basis for the remainder of Kobe's career.

The Pistons just have the remember when team..and are searching for how to return to glory..

Lastly since 2004..who has more titles..LAL or Detroit??

Again, of course they built their entire roster....it was bad after Shaq left. You either rebuild or lose the best player of the decade.

No doubt that LAL GM deserves credit. So if we throw out the 2004 championship, let's throw out the top 3 GM's in the NBA.

Who has had more success since 2004, Dumars or any GM from 25 other NBA teams during that time? I still think it is CRAZY to get rid of Dumars, especially with the record he has produced in the past 8-10 years. Seriously, the guy has had one bad season (last year) in the past 10 years of his tenure and they still made the playoffs.

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Dumars shouldn't be fired, yet. I feel his past accomplishments get him 3 years to rebuild. This was year one, so two more years. If they aren't back in the top 4 of the conference by then, its time to talk about getting rid of him.

Hard to argue he deserves a chance..but based upon the last 5 years, he isn't equipped to do the job anymore..just look at the moves of last season..

He had a nice run, my suspicions are he will resign when they sell the team, if they can sell the team.

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Dumars shouldn't be fired, yet. I feel his past accomplishments get him 3 years to rebuild. This was year one, so two more years. If they aren't back in the top 4 of the conference by then, its time to talk about getting rid of him.

I think until your team fails to make the playoffs for 3-4 years straight, you don't fire a GM who has a playoff record that Dumars has accumulated since coming to Detroit. If he doesn't make the playoffs the next 3 years, than I agree with you. If he does, I think it would be foolish to get rid of a guy with the experience and track record that Dumars brings to the table.

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Hard to argue he deserves a chance..but based upon the last 5 years, he isn't equipped to do the job anymore..just look at the moves of last season..

He had a nice run, my suspicions are he will resign when they sell the team, if they can sell the team.

I was always hoping that Dumars would be able to buy and/or run the team. I think he would make a GREAT owner/representative of the owners, and would obviously hire a new GM.

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I was always hoping that Dumars would be able to buy and/or run the team. I think he would make a GREAT owner/representative of the owners, and would obviously hire a new GM.

Not happening..

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Not happening..

I agree, although I thought it might happen the longer Davidson stayed alive. Once Davidson died, I think Dumars hopes of ownership/part ownership died.

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Hard to argue he deserves a chance..but based upon the last 5 years, he isn't equipped to do the job anymore..just look at the moves of last season..

He had a nice run, my suspicions are he will resign when they sell the team, if they can sell the team.

Can I have whatever it is that you're smoking?

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Can I have whatever it is that you're smoking?

I think Deletrious and S4L have too high a standard when evaluating GM's. I don't have a problem with that at all. I have HATED some moves Dumars has made the past 5 years, but when a top 5 GM isn't good enough, you may be sorely disappointed in what replaces him.

What GM's have been better than Dumars since 2004? When looking at records who really has been as good or better? I'm not sure you would find more than 3-4 GM's in the league that would arguable be considered as good or better. He is definitely top 3 over the past 10 years.

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Can I have whatever it is that you're smoking?

cmon over we can share..detail for me what he has done the last 5 years..hows the current maxed out roster..it's chock full of players everyone wants..oh wait..it's not..name me one?? When you're most valuable asset is Rodney Stuckey a SG forced to paly PG who can;t shoot three's or really finish with authoirty, your roster is flawed..hence an 11-18 record and sinking..in fact they are worse since the veterans returned not better.

You guys can all live in the past..in fact put on a teal jersey and knock yourself out..this is a bad team, poorly constructed, with zero cap room and no vision. Their best frontcourt player is 36 years old and beginning to break down and otherwise they have nothing but future 6th men upfront..They are not a destinantion team and have been a veritable revolving door for coaches.

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Dumars really has been a disappointment ever since he spent money on Rasheed instead of Okur. The trade for Rasheed was great and helped win a championship, but he was aging and had a history of being a malcontent. That move still makes me angry. He hasn't really done much to improve the team since then, and really should have broken this team up back when they were valuable trading pieces, because I think most people could see that this team wasn't going to continue its success with such an old core.

Trading Billups could have been the right move, but he was traded days after extending Rip, which makes no sense. Rip wasn't going to contribute as well without being paired with Billups, and I think if you make that move, you have be ready to rebuild and trade Sheed, Prince and Rip for young pieces and draft picks. He didn't, just added Iverson and then wasted the money he saved on two good bench players. They're good players, but at that money Joe needed to say, "Pass." He's created a mess and I really don't see how it can be fixed at this point. I can only see it getting worse, unless he miraculously moves Prince and Rip for some pieces that might help the future. I think to suggest that to Joe's face might get you a "you try and trade them," response.

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cmon over we can share..detail for me what he has done the last 5 years..hows the current maxed out roster..it's chock full of players everyone wants..oh wait..it's not..name me one?? When you're most valuable asset is Rodney Stuckey a SG forced to paly PG who can;t shoot three's or really finish with authoirty, your roster is flawed..hence an 11-18 record and sinking..in fact they are worse since the veterans returned not better.

You guys can all live in the past..in fact put on a teal jersey and knock yourself out..this is a bad team, poorly constructed, with zero cap room and no vision. Their best frontcourt player is 36 years old and beginning to break down and otherwise they have nothing but future 6th men upfront..They are not a destinantion team and have been a veritable revolving door for coaches.

I have no problem with your evaluation, but to judge a GM based on the past 2 years alone is short sighted. We were in the ECF 2 seasons ago (it hasn't even been 2 full seasons), you remember? or is that too far in the past to count? :grin:

To completely discount the fact that we've won an NBA championship, been to another NBA finals, and been to 6 ECF's in the past decade is just simply too greedy IMO. Dumars deserves some more time (alot more IMO), but hey, fire away, I'm sure you got somebody in mind that will definitely win more playoff games than Dumars has won the past 5 years! :ponder:

Edited by belcherboy

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Dumars really has been a disappointment ever since he spent money on Rasheed instead of Okur. The trade for Rasheed was great and helped win a championship, but he was aging and had a history of being a malcontent. That move still makes me angry.

In hindsight, it obviously was the wrong move, but Okur was not worth $10 million a year at that time. Especially when you have the next coming of Dirk sitting your bench in Darko. No GM in the NBA makes that move back then. You keep the proven scorer Rasheed and when he finishs out his contract, let Darko step in and take over about the time he is hitting his prime.

He hasn't really done much to improve the team since then, and really should have broken this team up back when they were valuable trading pieces, because I think most people could see that this team wasn't going to continue its success with such an old core.

Trading Billups could have been the right move, but he was traded days after extending Rip, which makes no sense. Rip wasn't going to contribute as well without being paired with Billups, and I think if you make that move, you have be ready to rebuild and trade Sheed, Prince and Rip for young pieces and draft picks. He didn't, just added Iverson and then wasted the money he saved on two good bench players. They're good players, but at that money Joe needed to say, "Pass." He's created a mess and I really don't see how it can be fixed at this point. I can only see it getting worse, unless he miraculously moves Prince and Rip for some pieces that might help the future. I think to suggest that to Joe's face might get you a "you try and trade them," response.

Again, I haven't liked the moves, but I think way too much time is spent, mostly by fans, focusing on the future. What really matters is the present. At the present time that Dumars was making his moves (with the exception of the past 2 years), he had a team that was winning games (a lot of games) and was considered a championship caliber team.

If I had to criticize Dumars over the past 5 years (since our championship) and give one overwhelming reason he should be fired, it would be his choice of coaches. I put that as 75% of the blame of why the Pistons have not won another NBA championship. I honestly think that this roster would have won another championship if Larry Brown has stuck around another season or two.

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I think until your team fails to make the playoffs for 3-4 years straight, you don't fire a GM who has a playoff record that Dumars has accumulated since coming to Detroit. If he doesn't make the playoffs the next 3 years, than I agree with you. If he does, I think it would be foolish to get rid of a guy with the experience and track record that Dumars brings to the table.

I am not sure that is a good way to judge a GM. The eastern conference might have 2 or 3 teams below .500 who make the playoffs this year. If the Pistons continue to finish below .500, but keep making the playoffs, is Dumars doing a good job?

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I think Deletrious and S4L have too high a standard when evaluating GM's. I don't have a problem with that at all. I have HATED some moves Dumars has made the past 5 years, but when a top 5 GM isn't good enough, you may be sorely disappointed in what replaces him.

What GM's have been better than Dumars since 2004? When looking at records who really has been as good or better? I'm not sure you would find more than 3-4 GM's in the league that would arguable be considered as good or better. He is definitely top 3 over the past 10 years.

I don't mid the ridiculously high standards for a GM...

My flip comment was more related to reality than to Sportz4's demanding ways...

Is there any reality that Pistons ownership has lost faith in Dumars, as Sportz4 has? No.

Will Joe just resign his position if there is a change in ownership? No.

Do team ownerships evaluate their GM's the way Sportz4 has? No.

Has Dumars performed as badly as Sportz4 lets on? No.

Has Joe D lost the support of the fans, the team, ownership, or the State of Michigan? No.

Is he likely to? No.

Boston and LA remade the team and Dumars hasn't? Incorrect. Boston lucked into KG (right situation, right young players), which happens EXTREMELY RARELY; Gasol was just given to LA on a silver platter; OH: Dumars had one of those too, didn't he? When he got Sheed. Simply because the first two teams made their moves more recently than the Pistons does NOT make Joe D a bad GM.

SA? Duncan, Ginobli, Parker. Everything else is simply support group.

BOS? Pierce, KG, support group.

CLE? Lebron & the LeBronettes.

LAL? Kobe & Gasol & support group.

DAL? PG play & Nowitzki & support group.

MIA? Wade & Shaq & support group.

Notice a theme?

Joe is currently in the midst of remaking the team. Villanueva & Gordon will play more/ better. The team will do better. There are various young guys on the team that are/ will develop into starters/ contributors. It takes time.

To not give Joe D enough time to develop a new team is ludicrous. IE: When Joe D lost Grant Hill to the Magic for Ben Wallace & Chucky Atkins... did anybody see that as the start of a Pistons run of excellence?

I didn't think so.

Give it time.

And anyone who thinks Joe D is close to losing his job is smoking whatever Sportz4 is.

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