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Donald Kelly played 2B and SS in yesterday's doubleheader. Does anyone have any thoughts about what position he's going to end up at ? This guy is putting up some really good numbers this year (.408 OBP 41/23 BB/K). A move to Erie might me in order. Or is he one of these no tools guys who is going to be sentenced to minor league supersub death ?

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If I remember right when Kelly was drafted (SS?) it was thought he might not hit enough to make it. That being said he's doing pretty well but he's playing in large parks and they might to suited to his tools. Supposedly the real test for hitters is AA so we'll see.

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Who cares? He's a middle infielder who is 11'th in the league in ops. Thats pretty darn good. Maybe some of those doubles will turn in HRs.

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The fact of the matter is the Tigers seem to stay away from power hitters. Like the plague.:angry:

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<<How many HR's does he have?>>

I realize his lack of power prevents him from being a stellar prospect but an infielder with that kind of plate displine would still have to be considered a prospect. That's why I'm curious about what position he might end up at.

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Originally posted by cruzer1

The fact of the matter is the Tigers seem to stay away from power hitters. Like the plague.:angry:

The problem is that they end up with guys who can't hit for power or get on base. If some of these nonpower guys they get stuck with now could get on base, they'd be valuable. The problem with guys like Kingsale, Torres, Sanchez, Santiago and Infante is not lack of power. It's that they don't get on base either.

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It is true that Don doesn't hit for much power Cruzer. However he gets on base and hits for enough power to be effective. If he keeps this up at the next level I don't see how he isn't a prospect especially with his stellar defense.

I truly think he is someone to keep an eye on. Lee I think they should keep him at SS but if they move him 2B wouldn't be bad either. He will be more of an effective bat and a better prospect if he plays a position up the middle.

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<<Lee I think they should keep him at SS but if they move him 2B wouldn't be bad either. He will be more of an effective bat and a better prospect if he plays a position up the middle.>>

It sounds that way. I remember hearing that the Tigers wanted to move him to a different position because he's "too tall to play shortstop". That's kind of starange though if they drafted him for his defense. Did they not know how tall he was before he was drafted ? And if he can play defense, what difference does his height make ?

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Originally posted by estrepe1

It is true that Don doesn't hit for much power Cruzer. However he gets on base and hits for enough power to be effective. If he keeps this up at the next level I don't see how he isn't a prospect especially with his stellar defense.

I truly think he is someone to keep an eye on. Lee I think they should keep him at SS but if they move him 2B wouldn't be bad either. He will be more of an effective bat and a better prospect if he plays a position up the middle.

That lack of power won't play as well in the majors as it does the minors. The Tigers need guys who can get on, but in the majors, if you can't hit HR's, they usually don't walk you.

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Originally posted by cruzer1

The Tigers need guys who can get on, but in the majors, if you can't hit HR's, they usually don't walk you.

Not true. Currently among the major league leaders in walks are Erubiel Durazo (12 HR), Larry Walker (9 HR), Milton Bradley (8 HR), and Brad Wilkerson (11 HR), and a little farther down the list, John Olerud (4 HR). Bobby Higginson's drawing plenty of walks without hitting for any power. Rich Becker and Billy McMillon are two more examples. Patience and power are skills that often go together, but it doesn't have to be that way.

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Pitchers don't choose to walk you or not if a batter is patient he will walk at least a fair amount.

Contact hitters have a place in the major leagues. While Kelly isn't a huge impact prospect he could be a solid one and if he continues to hit at this pace as he moves up I see no reason why he couldn't be a solid major league player especially if they leave him at SS or 2B. I understand your affinity with power hitting but I think you are going a bit overboard with it if you think that it is the only way to go. IF Kelly was to make it and later on we found a power hitter with good patience that played the same position then I would see you point, but at this point I really think you are missing the target by more than a little.

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The Tigers have way too little power in their system. JS all the players you named are threats, they've done it before, they'll do it again. Contact hitters like Kelly have a spot; on the bench. Do you think he could make the Red Sox? Then why should he make the Tigers? The Tigers must up the bar, or they'll stay where they are; the worst team in the history of baseball.

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<<Contact hitters like Kelly have a spot; on the bench. Do you think he could make the Red Sox?>>

I think Bill Mueller could maybe make the Red Sox.

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The reason why walks aren't that valued to most people is for the exact reason cruzer states. People see it more as the fault of the pitcher, not anything the batter does well. When the fact of the matter is, that a good OBP usually gets a lot of walks because they can lay off bad pitched.

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Originally posted by cruzer1

The Tigers have way too little power in their system. JS all the players you named are threats, they've done it before, they'll do it again. Contact hitters like Kelly have a spot; on the bench. Do you think he could make the Red Sox? Then why should he make the Tigers? The Tigers must up the bar, or they'll stay where they are; the worst team in the history of baseball.

Cruzer, do you really think that pitchers are still scared of Olerud's career-high 24 homers in 1993? Or his last season with a slugging percentage over .500 in 1998? Of course not. He walks a lot because he takes a lot of pitches, not because he has had occasional seasons with some power during his 14-year career.

I rather doubt pitchers are scared of Higgy either. Would you be?

Milton Bradley homered a career-high 9 times last year - I think he's a good hitter, but he's clearly not making anybody pitch around him because they're worried he might go deep. Wilkerson hit 20 homers last year, but again, he's just not the kind of hitter who's going to strike fear into anyone's heart. I don't think I need to say anything about McMillon and Becker.

As for Kelly, do I think he could make the Red Sox? Well, not this year. He's in single-A ball! He couldn't make the Tigers this year! But we don't have a very good idea at all right now about how good he could be in 3 years, which is when it counts. If you're insisting that he has zero chance to be a productive major leaguer, that's just silly.

Do contact hitters like Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn belong on the bench? Boggs' career minor league line was .318/.415/.386 (in over 2000 at bats); by your logic, he never should have gotten a chance to play in the majors.

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Originally posted by cruzer1

Then why doesn't Inge walk more?

Because Inge doesn't have the talent to lay off all bad pitches that come his way.

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Originally posted by cruzer1

The Tigers have way too little power in their system. JS all the players you named are threats, they've done it before, they'll do it again. Contact hitters like Kelly have a spot; on the bench. Do you think he could make the Red Sox? Then why should he make the Tigers? The Tigers must up the bar, or they'll stay where they are; the worst team in the history of baseball.

There are very few hitters that really are threats enough to pitchers to MAYBE do what you are saying. Strike fear in them so they just walk them because of that. Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Lance Berkman, etc.

Kelly couldn't make any team at this point in his career because his is in single A ball but if he was hitting this well in AAA I really believe he would have been called up by now. Also while the Tigers for the past years might have had very few power hitting prospects they have also have had very few hitters that have had strike zone judgement.

Strike Zone judgement is a skill cruzer. And it is not just a skill that is locked into power hitters.

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That's not my point. If a pitcher doesn't respect you, he won't walk you. In the majors, batters earn respect by bashing. You don't think pitchers aren't more careful with Larry Walker than someone like Chris Stynes? Yeah, it's a skill, but the entire skill set dictates how you're going to get pitched.

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Your point is incorrect though. It works for some batters but it doesn't explain why a batter like John Olerud, Wilkerson, Bradley etc walk. If a batter has the eye to recognize strikes and balls they will walk at a good rate.

Also you are acting as though every pitcher in the majors has impeccable control. While your theory might work for some pitchers like a Greg Maddux in his prime it doesn't work for all pitchers. I will give you that it is harder to walk in the majors because it is harder to do everything in the majors, but walking in the majors is not solely tied to power hitters.

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Olerud, Wilkerson, and Bradley all can hit. They're all respected for their bats, even if their power numbers are all down. They're not going to see as good a pitch selection as lesser hitters.

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Wilkerson's career high in homers is 20, Bradley as JS stated has had a career high of 9 homers in his career, and Olerud's career high is 24. Now I don't think any of those career highs count as fearsome power hitters in today's baseball. Maybe in the dead ball era but not in this era. Of course there is more to power numbers than simply homeruns but Kelly has a decent number of doubles and his slugging percentage is .420 which isn't bad considering how much he walks/gets on base.

Yet all of them have walked at a good rate. That isn't to say that Don Kelly will do the same when/if he reaches the majors but to simply write him off at this point because despite his great patience thus far this year he doesn't hit for a ton of power is very shortsighted.

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milton bradley really hadn't done a damn thing in the majors until this year, so to say he's being walked because "he's done it before" doesn't make a lot of sense. good power hitters tend to have good walk rates - it's not an exclusive cause and effect relationship. players who consistently display good plate discipline throughout the minors will tend to display good plate discipline in the majors - regardless of their power. a player we just talked about in the not-so-distant past was walt weiss, a middle infielder who walked a lot and had little-to-no power.

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