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Why is Granderson batting 7th?????

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uhhhhhhhhhhh, we NEED a win, have you guys thought about the above?

You're so right about it that I suppose nobody felt the need to comment. I almost completely lost it last night when Leyland let Granderson hit in the 7th inning against Mijares with runners on 1st and 2nd.

I was driving to work and almost swerved into the median on 696. Preposterous that Wilkin Ramirez was left on the bench in that situation in that game. Simply preposterous.

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I don't see how Leyland can expect to win a game w/Granderson in the leadoff spot. His average for the season is now below Marcus Thames! His OBP is only 18 points higher than Thames....this is our freakin LEADOFF guy we are talking here....he is the center of the problem.

He is hitting:

.194 in Sept

.239 since the break w/9 HRs compared to 18 in the 1st half

.174 RISP w/2outs

.222 w/RISP

.180 against lefties jumps to .208 when he is batting 7th against lefties :rambo:

.056 w/3-1 count (1/18) isn't that a hitters count?

.171 when he sees 3 or more pitches 50/292 1-2, 2-1, 2-2, 3-0, 3-1, 3-2 counts...reminds me of a little leaguer about to pee his pants if he stands there too long....

.200 w/bases loaded

he hasn't hit in 3 consecutive games since August..

He is about as anti clutch as they come...

Yeah he's got potential...but its time for him to ride the pine for a couple games....

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man, that is worse than I thought. He's been bad but I was thinking/hoping that it was just perception.

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man, that is worse than I thought. He's been bad but I was thinking/hoping that it was just perception.

The one thing he has done the last couple times is get some hits against LH. I think he is 3 for his last 8 against LH pitching. Granted they are all singles and he still has a lot of pop-ups/lazy fly balls, small sample size, etc, but 3 hits took him 25 or so ab's against LH most of the season.

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I don't see how Leyland can expect to win a game w/Granderson in the leadoff spot. His average for the season is now below Marcus Thames! His OBP is only 18 points higher than Thames....this is our freakin LEADOFF guy we are talking here....he is the center of the problem.

He is hitting:

.194 in Sept

.239 since the break w/9 HRs compared to 18 in the 1st half

.174 RISP w/2outs

.222 w/RISP

.180 against lefties jumps to .208 when he is batting 7th against lefties :rambo:

.056 w/3-1 count (1/18) isn't that a hitters count?

.171 when he sees 3 or more pitches 50/292 1-2, 2-1, 2-2, 3-0, 3-1, 3-2 counts...reminds me of a little leaguer about to pee his pants if he stands there too long....

.200 w/bases loaded

he hasn't hit in 3 consecutive games since August..

He is about as anti clutch as they come...

Yeah he's got potential...but its time for him to ride the pine for a couple games....

Nice work...really good stuff.

Remember the old joke about coyote ugly??

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As much as I have resisted, I've come to the same conclusion. I don't know what accounts for his nose dive this season but I liked him better when he seemed to be all about and only about being the best player he could be.

Grandy is my favorite player, but his plate approach has been just terrible this year. I think he fell in love with hitting home runs, which explains why he's taken a nose dive in every stat but HRs.

Remember how Magglio was done and we should cut him? He's got a much higher OBP than our leadoff hitter Granderson. And will probably end the year with a higher OPS, too.

Doubles hitting Granderson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>power hitting Granderson.

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It's gotten to the point where I'd rather have Dane Sardinha hit leadoff.

I thought this was hyperbole, until.....

Sardinha in 2008 - .159/.229/.205 OPS of 434

Grandy vs LHP 2009 - .180/.246/.240 OPS of 486

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Anyone else say "Because he sucks?" aloud while reading this thread title?

Yes. Yes I did.

Seriously --- how many OF assists (I think that's what they're called) does CuGr have? Does anyone know?

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Yes. Yes I did.

Seriously --- how many OF assists (I think that's what they're called) does CuGr have? Does anyone know?

3. Unfortunately, he has the same number of errors.

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3. Unfortunately, he has the same number of errors.

And how many outstanding catches does he have? How many balls does he catch that Raburn wouldn't get to?

Granderson is batting 7th against lefties because Leyland thinks his defense is worth carrying his weak bat. I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

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Granderson has been a disappointment offensively this year but I want to make a couple of points:

(1) Granderson is no longer leading off against LHP. Against RHP,Granderson has a .363 OBP and a .900 OPS. Raburn leads off against RHP. Thus, I don't really see a problem in the leadoff spot.

(2) Granderson has average to a little above average defense (according to UZR and +/-) at a position where there are a good number of great defenders. This means he is still a valuable defender and there are no adequate RH hitting CF replacements on the roster.

(3) An outfield of Ramirez, Raburn and Ordonez scares me as much as Granderson batting seventh versus LHP.

That being said, I would like to see Leyland sit Granderson against some lefties and pinch hit for him in key spots but I don't think a straight platoon is an obvious solution especially when the Tigers have a flyball pitcher on the mound. I believe the Tigers defense has been a major part of their success this year and can't be taken lightly.

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And how many outstanding catches does he have? How many balls does he catch that Raburn wouldn't get to?

Granderson is batting 7th against lefties because Leyland thinks his defense is worth carrying his weak bat. I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

Agreed, the struggling offensivley is hard to take, the strategy defensively makes sense. This team has won because of their committment to defense. To tinker with that formula at this point, is a poor idea. Granderson would be entering by the 6th inning for defense anyway.

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And how many outstanding catches does he have? How many balls does he catch that Raburn wouldn't get to?

Like a million. He just hasn't been as good in the field as he was two years ago or even last year.

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Like a million. He just hasn't been as good in the field as he was two years ago or even last year.

He's better this year than last year defensively. I think people might be be noticing his defensive limitations more this year because of their frustrations with his offense.

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Granderson has been a disappointment offensively this year but I want to make a couple of points:

(1) Granderson is no longer leading off against LHP. Against RHP,Granderson has a .363 OBP and a .900 OPS. Raburn leads off against RHP. Thus, I don't really see a problem in the leadoff spot.

(2) Granderson has average to a little above average defense (according to UZR and +/-) at a position where there are a good number of great defenders. This means he is still a valuable defender and there are no adequate RH hitting CF replacements on the roster.

(3) An outfield of Ramirez, Raburn and Ordonez scares me as much as Granderson batting seventh versus LHP.

That being said, I would like to see Leyland sit Granderson against some lefties and pinch hit for him in key spots but I don't think a straight platoon is an obvious solution especially when the Tigers have a flyball pitcher on the mound. I believe the Tigers defense has been a major part of their success this year and can't be taken lightly.

3 of the last 4 years, the Tigers have had a top 5 defense according to UZR. In each of those years, we have seriously contended for the postseason and might very well make it for a 2nd time this season. Last season, when our defense was at its worst, we never seriously contended. I think DD has took note of this and having a strong defense might be an organizational philosophy going forward. Hence, the additions of Laird and Everett, the move to make Inge a full time 3B, to continue to play Grandy against lefties and to pass on some corner outfielders at the deadline b/c DD thought they would give up too many runs in the field.

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Since August I've calculated he's hitting at a .214/.285/.402 clip. But I don't know how that splits between LHP/RHP.

I just have very little confidence when he's up to the plate now, like Adam Everett/Gerald Laird level confidence.

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Nice work...really good stuff.

Remember the old joke about coyote ugly??

Thank you...and No?

(1) Granderson is no longer leading off against LHP. Against RHP,Granderson has a .363 OBP and a .900 OPS. Raburn leads off against RHP. Thus, I don't really see a problem in the leadoff spot.

(2) Granderson has average to a little above average defense (according to UZR and +/-) at a position where there are a good number of great defenders. This means he is still a valuable defender and there are no adequate RH hitting CF replacements on the roster.

That being said, I would like to see Leyland sit Granderson against some lefties and pinch hit for him in key spots but I don't think a straight platoon is an obvious solution especially when the Tigers have a flyball pitcher on the mound. I believe the Tigers defense has been a major part of their success this year and can't be taken lightly.

to point 1) STILL why is grandy batting 7th then? If you don't "platoon" him...move him to 9th where he gets as FEW ABs as possible...I think it was his 1st game batting 7th he still had 5 LOB in 2 ABs. Clutch situations always find him...& he is a rally killer.

Grandy .180 vs lefties

Laird .245 vs lefties

Everett .266 vs lefties

He's a great CF I'll give him credit for that

.194 for the month of September against (lefties & righties) when we are clinging on to a division lead w/no chance of a wild card...WHY have him in the leadoff spot? Oh yeah & his OBP is .275 so he is getting on base once every other game....not ideal for a leadoff hitter. I'd have him in 7th against righties & 9th against lefties until he can prove himself again.

It's crazy to send him out in the leadoff spot w/those kind of stats & our offensive struggles.

BTW how can a player be so damn bad with a 3-1 count? Combined he is 1 for 21 in 3-0 & 3-1 counts....thats a .047 avg! :dead:

Edited by C03BRA

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And how many outstanding catches does he have? How many balls does he catch that Raburn wouldn't get to?

Granderson is batting 7th against lefties because Leyland thinks his defense is worth carrying his weak bat. I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

That would have been a good argument in the sixties when pitching and defense ruled like never before or after, and Yaz won the batting title @ .301. Today, outfielders need to produce runs in addition to saving them.

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BTW how can a player be so damn bad with a 3-1 count? Combined he is 1 for 21 in 3-0 & 3-1 counts....thats a .047 avg!

He also has 42 BB's in 63 PA's when it's 3-1 or 3-0. So, yes, he is 1-21. But he is getting on base when he gets those counts.

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Grandy is my favorite player, but his plate approach has been just terrible this year. I think he fell in love with hitting home runs, which explains why he's taken a nose dive in every stat but HRs.

Can you say Willy Mays Hayes from Major League II?

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He also has 42 BB's in 63 PA's when it's 3-1 or 3-0. So, yes, he is 1-21. But he is getting on base when he gets those counts.

In that case what is the point of swinging the bat once he gets to 3-0 or 3-1? Odds aren't in his favor that it'll be a hit...

That's a flat out terrible average...those pitches should be a fastball right down the middle...walks or no walks its pathetic....

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to point 1) STILL why is grandy batting 7th then? If you don't "platoon" him...move him to 9th where he gets as FEW ABs as possible...I think it was his 1st game batting 7th he still had 5 LOB in 2 ABs. Clutch situations always find him...& he is a rally killer.

Grandy .180 vs lefties

Laird .245 vs lefties

Everett .266 vs lefties

As a practical matter, the difference in him batting 7th vs. 9th is pretty insignificant, and certainly is much smaller than the move from #1 to #7. I personally wouldn't get too hung up on batting 7th or 9th.

He's a great CF I'll give him credit for that

.194 for the month of September against (lefties & righties) when we are clinging on to a division lead w/no chance of a wild card...WHY have him in the leadoff spot? Oh yeah & his OBP is .275 so he is getting on base once every other game....not ideal for a leadoff hitter. I'd have him in 7th against righties & 9th against lefties until he can prove himself again.

It's crazy to send him out in the leadoff spot w/those kind of stats & our offensive struggles.

a) Curtis Granderson is a streaky hitter. Always has been, probably always will be.

b) September is something like 3 weeks worth of play, with what I suspect is an unusually high number of games against left-handed pitching for the Tigers. I personally wouldn't make a change based on a few weeks worth of play, especially if I didn't think I had a vastly superior option. That isn't to say I wouldn't consider it, or wouldn't look harder at the numbers. Its just that 3 weeks worth of data can be misleading.

BTW how can a player be so damn bad with a 3-1 count? Combined he is 1 for 21 in 3-0 & 3-1 counts....thats a .047 avg! :dead:

Small sample size alert.

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In that case what is the point of swinging the bat once he gets to 3-0 or 3-1? Odds aren't in his favor that it'll be a hit...

That's a flat out terrible average...those pitches should be a fastball right down the middle...walks or no walks its pathetic....

So should he not swing and try for a walk or should he swing because those are fastballs right down the middle? Can't have it both ways.

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In that case what is the point of swinging the bat once he gets to 3-0 or 3-1? Odds aren't in his favor that it'll be a hit...

That's a flat out terrible average...those pitches should be a fastball right down the middle...walks or no walks its pathetic....

1 for 21 is a terrible average. Still to get walks 2 times for every ball put in play is pretty impressive. That is an on-base percentage north of 0.650.

Putting that aside - isn't it possible Granderson has smoked at least a few balls on a 3-0 or 3-1 count that didn't fall for a hit because they went right at a fielder? With a 1 for 21 batting line, it doesn't seem like he's getting any 'fluke' hits.

Also, supposing Granderson were 7 for 21 instead of 1 for 21 in those AB. We wouldn't be complaining about how he does in those situations, yet it would have neglible impact on the team's success. So it just isn't that significant, IMHO.

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