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Shinma

2009 Red Wings off-season thread.

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So how many years are you willing to give Hossa? Remember, what you can't pay him in yearly salary, you'll have to make up in total contract years. This is Hossa's last big contract, and even if he's willing to take the Red Wing discount, he's still going to want something close to his market value.

Someone suggested signing him to a Franzen-type deal. Is that what you guys want? Another guy locked up for the next 11 years -- for Hossa, that means until he's 42? Because that's probably what it would take to get him to sign with Detroit, and for probably more overall money. So what's the line, in terms of years, that you'd not cross when crafting a long-term deal for Hossa? For me that number is five, and I don't think that's going to get it done. If they can get him for that, I'm all for it, though.

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So how many years are you willing to give Hossa? Remember, what you can't pay him in yearly salary, you'll have to make up in total contract years. This is Hossa's last big contract, and even if he's willing to take the Red Wing discount, he's still going to want something close to his market value.

Someone suggested signing him to a Franzen-type deal. Is that what you guys want? Another guy locked up for the next 11 years -- for Hossa, that means until he's 42? Because that's probably what it would take to get him to sign with Detroit, and for probably more overall money. So what's the line, in terms of years, that you'd not cross when crafting a long-term deal for Hossa? For me that number is five, and I don't think that's going to get it done. If they can get him for that, I'm all for it, though.

would you rather have him at 9 years or so for around 4 mil or 5 years at about 6 a year?

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If you can get Hossa for 6 Mil/5 years you you sign the deal before he comes to his senses.

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If you can get Hossa for 6 Mil/5 years you you sign the deal before he comes to his senses.

Just a guess, but I would guess that Hossa's number is 7 at least. Based on what the Wings can offer annually anyway.

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Just a guess, but I would guess that Hossa's number is 7 at least. Based on what the Wings can offer annually anyway.

if he gets signed to a long term deal, its going to be lower than 7. It would be lower than Zetterberg's 6.08 too im pretty sure of that. If he is chasing the big bucks he wont be a Wing, but he has said repeatedly he will take less to stay.

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Red Wings general manager Ken Holland waits on salary cap to determine necessary roster moves - Detroit Red Wings Hockey: News, Blogs, Photos, Audio, Schedule & Stats - MLive.com

those asking for defense help

Holland said his defense is in place. The top seven are Lidstrom, Rafalski, Niklas Kronwall, Brad Stuart, Jonathan Ericsson, Brett Lebda and Lilja, whose future remains a bit murky due to persistent headaches.

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if he gets signed to a long term deal, its going to be lower than 7. It would be lower than Zetterberg's 6.08 too im pretty sure of that. If he is chasing the big bucks he wont be a Wing, but he has said repeatedly he will take less to stay.

That's why I'm trying to define "long term" here. I don't think you get him for 5 years at $6 Million per year, no matter how you space the money out.

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That's why I'm trying to define "long term" here. I don't think you get him for 5 years at $6 Million per year, no matter how you space the money out.

I am not saying you would, I was trying to make a point. That wasnt the long term contract in that situation either. My point was would you rather have him 4-5 years or a normal length contract for a cap hit about 2 mil a year higher or for 9-10 years with a 2 mil or so lower cap hit?

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I want to see Hossa come back, he is an elite player. The poor playoff showing might let the Wings get lucky and get him in the $5.5MM range.

I also want Samuelsson back. He is very skilled for what he was being paid. If the Wings can get him a little cheaper Id take him.

Unless something incredible happens I think this will be the last season of Draper and Maltby. Abdelkader in the minors for another season is a good idea, its how the Wings have been so successful. They allow young players more time to develop. Holland obviously thinks Abdelkader is going to be more than just a 4th line energy guy. Two seasons from now you have Abdelkader and Helm replacing Draper and Maltby and hopefully they are even better.

Im not sure its time to start cleaning house and I think if Hossa resigns we can add some gritty veteran forwards at a very reasonable price and be fine.

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Hossa had a poor SCF and a subpar playoffs in total, no doubt about it. But, I remember years when guys like Yzerman and Federov were criticized as not being able to get things done in the playoffs. Sign Hossa, assuming he follows thru on his promise to accept less to stay with the Wings. 40 goal scorers don't come around often.

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That's why I'm trying to define "long term" here. I don't think you get him for 5 years at $6 Million per year, no matter how you space the money out.

How about:

Year 1: $7 mill

Year 2: $7 mill

Year 3: $8 mill

Year 4: $7 mill

Year 5: $6 mill

Year 6: $6 mill

Year 7: $5 mill

Year 8: $3 mill

Year 9: $1 mill

Year 10: $1 mill

That's a 10 year contract paying a Cap-Average of $5.1 mill per year. And little money at ages 38, 39, & 40. So a decision to just CUT him at any point late in the contract - for Age/ Under-performance reasons - has little cap impact, and at a point where the overall cap would be much higher anyways. BTW: That is also a possible scenario that may happen with Franzen and Zetterberg...

BTW2: He's paid a pretty good salary from ages 31-36, and then it (his salary) starts to decline, with his age. Also, is he not able to renogotiate the contract in the later stages, if he is stil performing at a high level?

I don't see anything unfair with this contract, for either side.

Feel free to make some adjustments to my #'s, if anyone feels it necessary...

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Chelios gave the Wings a good decade, but it comes as a relief to me that the Wings confirmed today he's not in their plans for next year. He still wants to play somewhere, but I don't think he's effective enough to play for any playoff team. From Ted Kulfan in the Detroit News:

Monday, June 22, 2009

Red Wings will not re-sign Chris Chelios

Ted Kulfan / The Detroit News

Detroit -- Chris Chelios will not be returning to the Red Wings.

General manager Ken Holland met with Chelios Monday afternoon and, as expected, gave him the news Chelios will not be re-signed.

"It was kind of understood last summer, after Cheli signed, that the 2008-09 season would be the last one for Cheli as a Red Wing," said Holland, noting the need for the Wings to bring in younger players. "He wants to play another season and I believe he can still play."

Chelios, 47, was not available for comment. Chelios said late in the regular season he didn't expect to be re-signed by the Wings, but wants to continue playing somewhere in the NHL.

Holland said Chelios was a terrific addition to the Red Wings organization, after being acquired at the 1999 trade deadline.

"Just a perfect role model for young players," Holland said. "His dedication to the game is extraordinary."

Holland also said he expects to talk with agents for Marian Hossa, Mikael Samuelsson, Ty Conklin and Tomas Kopecky this weekend in Montreal during the NHL Entry Draft.

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How about:

Year 1: $7 mill

Year 2: $7 mill

Year 3: $8 mill

Year 4: $7 mill

Year 5: $6 mill

Year 6: $6 mill

Year 7: $5 mill

Year 8: $3 mill

Year 9: $1 mill

Year 10: $1 mill

That's a 10 year contract paying a Cap-Average of $5.1 mill per year. And little money at ages 38, 39, & 40. So a decision to just CUT him at any point late in the contract - for Age/ Under-performance reasons - has little cap impact, and at a point where the overall cap would be much higher anyways. BTW: That is also a possible scenario that may happen with Franzen and Zetterberg...

BTW2: He's paid a pretty good salary from ages 31-36, and then it (his salary) starts to decline, with his age. Also, is he not able to renogotiate the contract in the later stages, if he is stil performing at a high level?

I don't see anything unfair with this contract, for either side.

Feel free to make some adjustments to my #'s, if anyone feels it necessary...

Unless rules have changed, I was under the impression that in the NHL annual salaries were to be the same throughout the entire life of the contract. You can't have it weighted in the begining, but it could've changed.

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Unless rules have changed, I was under the impression that in the NHL annual salaries were to be the same throughout the entire life of the contract. You can't have it weighted in the begining, but it could've changed.

Z and Franzen both just signed deals weighted to the beginning of the contract just months ago.

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Unless rules have changed, I was under the impression that in the NHL annual salaries were to be the same throughout the entire life of the contract. You can't have it weighted in the begining, but it could've changed.

You can pay out the money however you want to.

For CAP purposes, it is simply total dollars in the contract divided by the length of the contract. IE: I could give you $25 mill this year, and $1 mill for the next 5 years, and your cap hit would be $5 mill per year ($30 mill / 6 years...).

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Good luck and THANK YOU! to Chris Chelios.

A great hockey player and a heck of good guy by all acounts. I remember thinking "Well, maybe we'll get a couple of decewnt years out of him" when he was a part of the big Chelios/Ranford/Ulfie/Wendel Clark trading deadline day in 1999. I never thought he'd be here for 10 years...:happy:

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my guess is cheli will make his farewell tour with the hawks next season...as their sixth/seventh d-man and/or player/coach/mentor...for whatever small amount of money that they can find under their cap...and that's probably a win-win for both sides...

re: hossa it will all be about what the cap can allow vs. how many other guys get offers and what the offers are...

sammy is quite a hell of a deal for a second powerplay qb (and they don't have an inhouse replacement, do they?), can he be brought back for close to what he was making or is he now too pricey?...and if somebody offer a mostly unproven (but high potential) guy like leino a boat full o' money, do you match it?...and what is hudlers value vs. the free agents with similar skills?, can you get an equal player from another team for less?...and if conk wants to come back for the same cash you are getting a steal in todays market (essentailly getting two goalies - with ozzies low salary - for the price of one) so you can't pass there...so exactly what is left to sign hossa?...

if i'm kenny here's the scenario i would try...i tell marian he has to wait till these things sort themselves out...and if we have a mutually agreeable amount of $ left over then you are getting it...but if we don't then it was very nice to have you for the one year...or if he can't wait and/or another team offers him so much more than would ever be possible, then that's just business and you move on...and you spend the amount you have left that you would have spent on him on one (or two) other fa that would like a similar "shot" at the cup that he took for a one (or 2 at most) year contract until you can see where the cap and tv money are headed long term...

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I read somewhere today that the new salary cap was being finalized for around a 5% inflation...so that eases the pain of the rumor that it might be going down.

With that said...any off-season ideas then?

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TSN is reporting today that the NHLPA has confirmed it to be $56.8 million, up $100k from $56.7 million this past year.

On a day when the biggest decisions appear to be made on the floor of the 2009 NHL Draft, the National Hockey League is expected to finalize their salary cap for the 2009-2010 season.

NHLPA executive-director Paul Kelly has confirmed to TSN that the salary cap will be set at a maximum of $56.8-million, with the minimum being $40.8-million. The move represents an increase of $100,000 from last year's totals.

Both the NHL and the NHLPA confirmed the players have voted to apply the five percent inflator, which allowed the salary cap for next season to rise slightly.

The league has been telling general managers and owners that the cap number could be $57.1-million, up a few hundred thousand from last season's maximum of $56.7-million.

Since it was introduced, the NHL salary cap has risen each year, starting from the original $39-million set at the end of the NHL Lockout.

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With the cap set, it should be a done in a few days for re-signing Hossa. If it doesn't happen before the 1st I don't see how it will get done later, when teams start throwing money at him.

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Red Wings GM Ken Holland not optimistic on chances for deal with free agent Marian Hossa - Detroit Red Wings Hockey: News, Blogs, Photos, Audio, Schedule & Stats - MLive.com

"If there's a (salary) cap number we think can fit in, we'll sign him. We're prepared to do a long-term deal," Holland said. "(Hossa's agent) Ritch Winter is hoping for a bigger cap number, more than what we're offering.

"He's talking to Marian. We'll talk in the next couple of days. I'm not optimistic, but we'll see."

Holland also said the team will not offer backup goaltender Ty Conklin a contract. That means Jimmy Howard will back up Chris Osgood next season.

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Ozzie won't have the luxury of a shaky regular season if he has Howard not Conklin as his partner. Especially if the Wings lose a 40-goal scorer.

I really hope something that makes sense gets done with Hossa.

I can see other teams really gunning for him. Now that Luongo is on the verge of signing an extension, the Canucks should dump Sundin (which they pretty well already have) and drop the Sedins and go hard for Hossa.

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