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As I see it, we've drained Toledo dry of guys worth using in the bigs. The Toledo people must be really mad. I know that a couple of years ago they were contemplating leaving the Detroit franchise because of us taking all the good players and leaving them with a team that wasn't competetive. I was looking at their roster and we've basically picked the bones of anybody worth having at this point in time. Any coments?

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The Toledo fans should be ecstatic. They have almost the entire Tiger opening roster over there.:devious:

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Yeah, it's pretty sad what the Mudhens have to play with. Then again, they do have the Tiger's starting linup from opening day.

Inge, Kingsale, Knotts, Anderson, Infante, so who's to say they are any worse than the parent club.

It was a laugher a couple of years back when the Mudhens threatend to fire the major league club because they were so bad. Sad thing is they are far worse now and that's with taking every shred of talent that Toledo has to offer.

The bottom line is Toledo has a nice ballpark, cheap tickets, a nice riverfront restaurant area and for me personally, a nice little jazz club to check out. So I'll be heading down soon to see the skeleton that is the Mudhens.

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Originally posted by cruzer1

The Toledo fans should be ecstatic. They have almost the entire Tiger opening roster over there.:devious:

That's how I see it. The Tigers are giving them players who should be good AAA players.

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I'm with Mattingly on this one. The minors exist for one reason, and that is to provide the major league squad with players when they need them. Its fair to criticize the Tigers for not being able to replace the players taken from Toledo with ready talent from the lower minors, but the big team comes first. If you have to strip Toledo to keep the Tigers from the worst record ever, so be it. If Toledo dumps the Tigers, there would be any number of other cities that would be happy to have a AAA team. No one is going to remember Toledos record next year.

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<<I'm with Mattingly on this one. The minors exist for one reason, and that is to provide the major league squad with players when they need them. Its fair to criticize the Tigers for not being able to replace the players taken from Toledo with ready talent from the lower minors, but the big team comes first. If you have to strip Toledo to keep the Tigers from the worst record ever, so be it. If Toledo dumps the Tigers, there would be any number of other cities that would be happy to have a AAA team. No one is going to remember Toledos record next year.>>

That's somewhat true but it's also important to have a good relationship with your minor league affiliates. If Detroit treats Toledo well, then Toledo will help Detroit by providing the best possible atmosphere for player development. It also helps Detroit if Toledo wins because that means their young players will be brought up in a winning environment. Detroit has been good to Toledo this year. The main reason Detroit brought in players like Witt, Morris and Ernie Young was so that Toledo would have a decent team after the Tigers moved all their young players to the majors. Although, they also signed these guys as insurance for the parent club, I'm sure they were hoping they didn't need them.

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Let Toldeo fans cry all they want. Fact is that having the big league team so close is a tremendous benefit to both teams. Toldeo is well taken care of by the Tigers and they have had a really good relationship, especially since DD has come along.

And y'all are right. The Hens have a lot of tweeners (once that do well at AAA but cant at the big league level). Plus the pitching is outstanding. They will draw plenty of fans no matter what.

Just two questions...

Do the Mud Hens have a message board?

If they do, is there an entire thread dedicated to how much Brandon Inge sucks?

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Toledo fans arent really crying are they?

If so how soon they forget...2002 They won the league crown.

This year Toledo was in 2nd place last I checked.

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They do have a message board but it is rather quiet these days. It has changed since the last time I visited their message board and my name and password didn't work. It looks like they just changed the format not more than 3-4 weeks ago. They're using the exact same format as our MB here. Upon further review, the board is different, but I do believe it is a format we've had in the past. It's very similar, but it is different.

No "Inge sucks" thead yet, with a strong emphasis on "yet".

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I think Tiger337 that it doesn't matter what city the Tigers minor league players are in. They are being coached by members of the Tigers organization, and any success or failure they experience is a result of that, and talent, alone. By atmosphere I assume you mean fan support. Like I said, if Toledo won't support us we can find someone who will.

A winning environment is nice but talent is all that really matters. The boys of Erie were being groomed together for that reason a short time ago, but that hasn't translated to any real benefit to the Tigers so far.

I agree that Toledo has nothing really to complain about. They have a new pleasant stadium with many amenities. The roster may not have many up and comers left, but there are guys there with some ability. In fact many teams use their triple A teams to stock vet players who they can use in a clutch when injuries hit their starters, and use their lower levels for player development.

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<<I think Tiger337 that it doesn't matter what city the Tigers minor league players are in. They are being coached by members of the Tigers organization, and any success or failure they experience is a result of that, and talent, alone. By atmosphere I assume you mean fan support. Like I said, if Toledo won't support us we can find someone who will.>>

I'm not really talking about fans here. I'm talking about the relationship between Detroit and its' minor league affiliates. Yes, the Tigers can find a city to replace Toledo and Toledo can just as easily find a city to replace Detroit. However, as long as they are together, it's beneficial to both sides if they have a good relationship.

By good atmosphere, I mean a feeling throughout the entire organization from Gulf Coast Tigers on up that the Tigers care about them. Obviously, good talent and instruction is what matters most. However, atmosphere and a feeling of continuity can help too. I remember when Dave Roberts was traded For Geronimo Berroa a few years ago the players became furious. The Tigers did not care that Roberts was a popular team leader I'm sure this didn't do a lot for the players' attitudes towards the Tiger organization. It didn't say too much for Tiger talent evaluation either but that's another story !.

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Originally posted by tiger337

The main reason Detroit brought in players like Witt, Morris and Ernie Young was so that Toledo would have a decent team after the Tigers moved all their young players to the majors. Although, they also signed these guys as insurance for the parent club, I'm sure they were hoping they didn't need them.

Exactly. Toledo doesn't even need to worry about its team now that it has the new stadium. Most reviews I've read have called it one of the top stadiums in the minors. I've been there, but what I think doesn't matter so much as what players think (for the record, I like it), and from all I've read most players like it.

Consequently, it's easy to sell 4-A guys like Young and Witt on the idea of coming to sign Minor League contracts to play in one the best facilities in the minors. The days of the Ned are over. It also helped that they won the Division last year in the first season of the stadium. It got the ball rolling.

The ability to sign guys like that can't be overstated. It keeps Toledo happy.....plus. It allows you to sign emergency vets at the AAA level......plus. And it allows you to better pick and choose the type of environment (that is to say, teammates) that you want your AAA prospects to play in. In April I read an article in Sports weekly in which Mark Shapiro was beaming about how he has exactly the type of team composition he wants at Buffalo......chock full of his AAA prospects, with the AAA veterans who don't have poor attitudes or harbor resentment for being sent down from the parent team.

I really think that stadium made everyone a winner.

And like T337 has stated, I think Detroit and Toledo are both winners in their relationship because of their proximity to one another. It's not a difficult trip for Tiger fans to head to Toledo and see how their prospects (or in the case of 2003, their old team) are doing. Likewise, it's not a difficult trip for Toledo fans to see how their old team is doing either. Win-win.

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Toledo is a top 60 market nationally. The Tigers ineptitude combined with the Indians success over the past 10 years has alienated an entire generation of baseball fans down here. The Tigers do absolutely nothing to market their product in this area. They don't even have a local broadcast affiliate that carries more than a handful of games.

Losing the Mudhens as an affiliate would only hurt the Tigers at the gate even more. Having the 'Hens so close also makes it easier for player evaluation purposes. Trammell and DD have been down on a few occasions to watch players in person. Dombrowski has improved the relationship between the two teams since he took over, but their's still alot of bitterness over the Randy Smith era.

Detroit would be wise to continue seeking out AAAA talent to stock the Toledo roster in the next few years.

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I'm not saying that a good relationship between the AAA affiliate and Detroit is not important, just that the 'feelings' of a typical Toledo fan should be about 97/100 on the Tiger's list of priorities right now.

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It was funny because I was at Toledo last night and there were a bunch of our past players there as we obvioulsy know.

A few things...

1. Kingsale tried to bunt at about 10 of 12 strikes he saw. I just don't know what the element of suprise is when you keep trying to do that.

2. Looking at averages and just watching the players play there didn't seem to be anyone really left to bring up if we wanted to. It seems like we've pulled up just about everyone there.

3. The players that are down in Toledo don't seem to be playing inspired ball of the ones that were demoted. All are batting below .250 right now and Infante is well below .200. Boccachica has a decent number of homers but that's really about the highlight of those players.

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Kingsale knows his limitations. He can't hit so his only chance to get on base outside of a walk is to bunt. He is a bigger piece of garbage than Inge.

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