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What BOTHER'S me about JL's use of Edwin Today:

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... Is NOT that he started him out in the 8th.

IMO, E-Jack is a horse... and should regularly be able to get to 100-120 pitches per start. It doesn't even bother me if he goes a bit above 120 pitches. The saying is, I believe, that the worst pitches are NOT over 100 or 120, but the ones in which a pitcher IS LABORING and is over those counts.

I can't see the game... so maybe someone else can state whether Jackson was really laboring that inning, or if things just weren't going his way (Thomas dropping a fly-ball) and it didn't look like he was really struggling aside from that...

But here is what DOES bother me:

He's averaged 100 pitches/ game... and he threw 132 today. THAT bothers me. I would think a big spike in pitches (30%) over what a guy's been previously averaging, WOULD cause some laboring in his last pitches.

I am going to be interested in seeing how effective E-Jack is over his next few starts... to see if there is any ill after-effects...

The 132 DOES bother me.

Not starting the 8th.

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I hope he doesn't exacerbate the problem by extending him in the next start. Hopefully he's capped at 100.

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He should've taken him out after he let up the first base runner in the 8th. The dropped fly ball by Thomas was scorched.

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He didn't really look like he was struggling when he was pitching, and as a matter of fact, he was still hitting high 90's & one of the pitches said 101 in the 8th, but I dunno if it was really that fast.

The home plate ump also was sketchy, and there were some calls that sure looked like they could have been called strikes, that weren't, and that helped elevate the pitch count for EJ.

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Any you felt the reason to make a new thread about something you can just post in the gamethread why?

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He struck out Salty on a 97 mph fastball, pitch 132. I didn't care for the pitch count either for the record and I'm not a big pitchcount guy.

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I'm going to steal diamond's quote from the game thread:

I think 132 is getting into risky territory myself... but it was over eight innings. Probably easier on the arm than JV's 114 over six.

... because... I think this is a correct statement and goes to my point above...

132 in 9 easy innings is probably not a big deal. What can Peavy/ Halladay handle in their complete games?

The key point is the laboring part: If JV throws 114 in 6 innings and struggles badly the last inning... it's potentially worse than an "easy" 132 in 8 or 9.

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Any you felt the reason to make a new thread about something you can just post in the gamethread why?

Different discussion. And better for it not to be lost in a game thread... meaning it's worthy of having it's own thread.

Do you have a problem with this?

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so the fact that Rodney,Seay and Zumaya had thrown the last two nights are of zero consequence..My guess is he was trying to get to the 9th and he didn't feel to good about getting the 2 extra 8th inning outs from Miner or Robertson.....can you blame him.

Guys used to throw 132 all the time..my guess is he will not throw that many again all year.

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so the fact that Rodney,Seay and Zumaya had thrown the last two nights are of zero consequence..My guess is he was trying to get to the 9th and he didn't feel to good about getting the 2 extra 8th inning outs from Miner or Robertson.....can you blame him.

Guys used to throw 132 all the time..my guess is he will not throw that many again all year.

Ryan Perry is still on the team... isn't he?

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Show some respect Waffle house. 84 Lives is a respected member around here. I have no problems with this thread.

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Different discussion. And better for it not to be lost in a game thread... meaning it's worthy of having it's own thread.

Do you have a problem with this?

Even if he does, it's a very simple solution.....just don't read the thread.

I agree to some degree about how deep he went into the game & the pitch count. I still don't like how he was left in there in that situation, but the only positive out of the pitch count is that it came in an eight inning outing.

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Ryan Perry is still on the team... isn't he?

and he was likely the choice..Jackson threw 97 on his last pitch..it worked out..it amazes me how often you guys second guess every millimeter of the game..even when it works..

By the way.. I laugh at some of this garbage because none of us ever knows how guys arms are feeling..or other important circumstances that affect game outcomes and player usage.

the second huesing is part of the game..but it's often foolish and of little relevance.

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It didn't work. He blew the lead. The fact that the offense bailed us out in the bottom of the inning is irrelevant to judging JL's decision making in the top of the inning.

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Ryan Perry is still on the team... isn't he?

For sure, and he even had Seay & Perry warming up before EJ went back out there right? So I dunno why he just completely swept them under the rug, and stuck with EJ, but we got the W anyways.

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Jackson's 132 pitches were the most by a Tiger since Steve Sparks threw 132 in 2002.

It was the most by a non-knuckleballer Tiger pitcher since Felipe Lira threw 132 in 1997.

The last Tigers pitcher to top 132 pitches was Omar Olivares, who threw 136 in a start in 1996, and Greg Keagle, who threw 133 in a start the same year.

Sparks threw 132 once in '02 and once in '01.

Jeff Weaver threw 131 once in 2001, and Justin Thompson threw 131 once in 1999.

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Jeff Weaver threw 131 once in 2001, and Justin Thompson threw 131 once in 1999.

And we've never seen from either one of them since.

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Jeff Weaver threw 131 once in 2001, and Justin Thompson threw 131 once in 1999.

And we've never seen from either one of them since.

thank god..

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What can Peavy/ Halladay handle in their complete games?

Peavy has never thrown more than 129 pitches in a game in his career, and has thrown 120 or more pitches nine times out of 208 career starts.

Roy Halladay threw exactly 130 pitches in a start last year, a career high. Before that, he'd never thrown more than 126 pitches in a start. In his career, he's thrown 120 or more pitches eleven times in 264 career starts. Five of those eleven times were in the same season, 2007. He threw seven complete games that year, which was the third highest total of CG's in his career (he's twice thrown 9).

I didn't scour the game logs to compare these pitch counts to their complete games, I just looked at the pitch count information total, since I believed that was what you were getting at and only brought up complete games because it was more likely the most pitches would be thrown then.

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Hey Thompson was the man back in 1997. I loved that guy! I remember him striking out Griffey jr. like 10 times in a row

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Eh, it doesn't bother me if EJ can handle it. I'd expect Jackson to be capped at around 110 in the next start though.

How do you know if he can handle it? Is that really a risk you want to take?

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Different discussion. And better for it not to be lost in a game thread... meaning it's worthy of having it's own thread.

Do you have a problem with this?

Actually, this is the same discussion that is still going on in the game thread. If you started a thread to discuss Leyland's handling of pitchers in general and built an argument on today's outing I could understand. Starting a new thread to discuss an event that happened in today's game that already had a lengthy discussion when it happened seems to me like an attempt at being the center of attention.

By no means do I think that I'm in charge around here, I just get disappointed when it appears that people start new threads to try to maximize the number of views of their point when there already exists a lengthy discussion of the same event. That always seems to lead to that same discussion being held in two different places by the same people at the same time.

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