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Mschottey1985

Michigan Gave up 2008 for Successes Later

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This team lost to Toledo AT HOME.

No, last years team lost to Toledo "AT HOME" :tired:

See, this is the problem with most of what I am reading here .. you all expect the same team, when really, who did we lose? We have young guys, yes .. we'll be very young, but we have young guys that are pretty good and we'll continue to get better. We'll have a better offensive line, health, leadership and good depth at RB, and two QBs that are made for the system our offense runs. Tell me again, where was that LAST YEAR?

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The notion that success in 2008 and success in 2010 and beyond are mutually exclusive is pretty funny.

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Other than the only guys on the defense worth a damn....no one Jon

Brandon Graham, Donovan Warren, and Boubacar Cissoko all left? Jonas Mouton and Obi Ezeh both left too? What about Mike Martin and Will Campbell? That sucks, mostly because most of those guys are young enough to become decent. I didn't know, my sincerest of apologies....really.

And who'd we lose on offense?

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Other than the only guys on the defense worth a damn....no one Jon

I'm pretty sure that Brandon Graham is, at least, worth a damn

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No, last years team lost to Toledo "AT HOME" :tired:

Before last year, you would have said there was no way Michigan would lose at home to Toledo.

See, this is the problem with most of what I am reading here .. you all expect the same team, when really, who did we lose?

3/4 of your defensive line. Your starting quarterback. Your starting safety. Your starting quarterback.

We have young guys, yes .. we'll be very young, but we have young guys that are pretty good and we'll continue to get better. We'll have a better offensive line, health, leadership and good depth at RB, and two QBs that are made for the system our offense runs. Tell me again, where was that LAST YEAR?

Health? How do you know they'll have better health or leadership?

Both QBs will be true freshman on very young teams, one of which is a wisp. The chances of the offense being that much better aren't all that high in my opinion.

The difference between this year and last year, IMO, will be luck. Not only was Michigan bad last year, they were also extremely unlucky. I doubt they lose that many fumbles again. That alone - along with some expected improvement that comes with being in the offense for a year or two - should get them a few more wins. But more than 5? I think they'll need to get lucky to do that. More than 7? EXTREMELY lucky. Not impossible, but highly improbable.

Last year was one of the most untalented Michigan teams I've ever seen. It's going to take a few years to get past the last few Carr recruiting classes. Combine that with completely switching philosophies and I doubt the team is ready to compete for the Big Ten title (or even get out of the bottom half of the Big Ten).

Right now, I see 4-5 wins. Probably 5.

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Right now, I see 4-5 wins. Probably 5.

First off, I respect your entire post .. and I agree on most of what you said. Yeah, I think we'll have good depth at RB, and I like Michael Shaw. Shaw could very easily become a stud RB this year, and the same can be said about a few players on both sides of the ball, mostly offense.

Just saying...

The thing is, I have no idea on how many games this team can win this year. All I know is, honestly, is that I fully expect them to be better!

How much is better? I don't know. I guess we'll find out this fall :bandit:

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We did lose...

3/4 of your defensive line. Your starting quarterback. Your starting safety. Your starting quarterback.

I think Will Campbell and Ryan Van Bergen will help the defensive line. I have read good things about both from spring practice. And I also like Mike Martin, and Brandon Graham .. if you're going to lose 3/4 of your defensive line, it's nice to have kept the best one -- by far -- of the group.

And do you really have to say starting QB twice, when in fact, we're getting two NEW QBs, that while freshmen, actually FIT THE SYSTEM we run?

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I'm a pessimist

Thats enough said right there. As Benke said, this team is not the same team as last year. I understand being cautious with your picks but to say they cannot compete in the big 10 is ridiculous.

Give them a chance. I really think if they can start out the season with a few W's (Which they should) they will gain momentum, continue to improve, and they will be a very competitive team. You are giving the other big 10 teams too much credit.

I do agree they have TONS of work to do.

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Thats enough said right there. As Benke said, this team is not the same team as last year. I understand being cautious with your picks but to say they cannot compete in the big 10 is ridiculous.

Give them a chance. I really think if they can start out the season with a few W's (Which they should) they will gain momentum, continue to improve, and they will be a very competitive team. You are giving the other big 10 teams too much credit.

I do agree they have TONS of work to do.

I didn't say they couldn't compete in the Big 10. I said they're not going to compete for the Big 10 title next year.

They might win 2 or 3 games in the Big Ten, but they've got a tough schedule and their team isn't that good yet. I think they'll be competitive most weeks, but I don't think they'll win most weeks either. Should be better than last year on offense, have no idea about the defense.

RRod is bringing in a lot of talent, so they should be better. But I'm still not 100% sold on him as a Michigan coach. I'm cautiously optimistic with him.

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I said they're not going to compete for the Big 10 title next year.

I agree with this. I just think they're going to be a better. Now how many more wins does that translate to, like I said, I don't know.

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I'm not sure what to expect this year. I expect improvement on both sides of the ball. I don't think laying out the schedule and assigning wins and losses to each game is a good way of predicting a team's record. I think this team is going to be middle of the pack in the Big Ten. Every team wins games they should lose and loses games they should win. Even assuming they are slightly below the middle of the Big Ten, that gives them 3 wins out of 8. I also think they are likely to win 3 of 4 in non-conference.

I think 6 wins is a good place to set the over/under. I think they could win as many as 8 with some luck. I also think they could win as few as 4 with bad luck.

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Before last year, you would have said there was no way Michigan would lose at home to Toledo.

3/4 of your defensive line. Your starting quarterback. Your starting safety. Your starting quarterback.

Health? How do you know they'll have better health or leadership?

Both QBs will be true freshman on very young teams, one of which is a wisp. The chances of the offense being that much better aren't all that high in my opinion.

The difference between this year and last year, IMO, will be luck. Not only was Michigan bad last year, they were also extremely unlucky. I doubt they lose that many fumbles again. That alone - along with some expected improvement that comes with being in the offense for a year or two - should get them a few more wins. But more than 5? I think they'll need to get lucky to do that. More than 7? EXTREMELY lucky. Not impossible, but highly improbable.

Last year was one of the most untalented Michigan teams I've ever seen. It's going to take a few years to get past the last few Carr recruiting classes. Combine that with completely switching philosophies and I doubt the team is ready to compete for the Big Ten title (or even get out of the bottom half of the Big Ten).

Right now, I see 4-5 wins. Probably 5.

It didn't help that the new coach couldn't convince some offensive linemen, wide receivers and a quarterback to stay. And it didn't help that people close to the program say that the coaching staff completely lost the defense, including players openly defying and bickering.

Rodriguez had more talent on his roster than he's ever seen. I understand it wasn't "his kind" of talent but that only goes so far. It doesn't explain the defense, it doesn't explain the constant fumbling on punts and kicks and it doesn't explain every loss.

I don't think Rodriguez' system is a sure bet in the Big 10. And yes, I'm among those who wouldn't have hired him. I would have gone after a smash mouth defensive minded coach. . .that's what truly slipped under Carr. In his last bowl game we saw where he had intended the offense to be before all of the injuries, a NE / Indy type pro-offense. They had invested a lot of time developing that, including working with some of the Colts coaching staff.

Oh well, I got over my disappointment last year. I hope RR proves me wrong. I just am not confident that an offense that was conceived to overcome weaknesses against bigger, faster defenses, is where I think Michigan's program should be.

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I read most of this and now im just going to chime in. I think Michigan will automatically be better right off the bat due to having played in Rich Rodriguez's offense for a year.

If you look at what Rodriguez did with Pat White and Steve Slaton when they were sophomores, you have to be excited. Forcier could equal White this year or next and Shaw could equal Slaton, but having guys at key positions recruited for this system is a plus. Sheridan/Threet and even McGuffie werent recruited to be successful in a Rodriguez style offense.

Greg Robinson has never been regarded as anything less then a excellent cordinator and I expect to see huge strides there.

I dont think Western is a gimme, That Hiller guy they have at QB is very good, but I dont think that Wisconsin, Iowa (who do they have minus Greene?), Indiana should be a win, Purdue could easily struggle and I dont see MSU as unbeatable without Ringer and Hoyer. Also, the Ohio State series is never a give me no matter what the rankings are going in.

I am very optimisitic over this years team, but I agree with Edman, this is Michigan football. Why cant we be successful in 2008 and 2010? Those who shrugged at 7 or 8 wins really ate crow last year.

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Rodriguez had more talent on his roster than he's ever seen.

As you somewhat mentioned, he had more talent at WVU for his style of team then what he had at Michigan last year. I dont think he knew how to implement his offense with guys who didnt fit.

I don't think Rodriguez' system is a sure bet in the Big 10.

College football is college football, what works in the SEC and Big East can work in the Big Ten.

In his last bowl game we saw where he had intended the offense to be before all of the injuries, a NE / Indy type pro-offense.

Excatley, that is the tradition of Michigan football. They have ran the pro style since before Bo and the athletic department wanted Les Miles and then once he denied their offer, they reached for the next big name.

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I read most of this and now im just going to chime in. I think Michigan will automatically be better right off the bat due to having played in Rich Rodriguez's offense for a year.

If you look at what Rodriguez did with Pat White and Steve Slaton when they were sophomores, you have to be excited. Forcier could equal White this year or next and Shaw could equal Slaton, but having guys at key positions recruited for this system is a plus. Sheridan/Threet and even McGuffie werent recruited to be successful in a Rodriguez style offense.

Greg Robinson has never been regarded as anything less then a excellent cordinator and I expect to see huge strides there.

I dont think Western is a gimme, That Hiller guy they have at QB is very good, but I dont think that Wisconsin, Iowa (who do they have minus Greene?), Indiana should be a win, Purdue could easily struggle and I dont see MSU as unbeatable without Ringer and Hoyer. Also, the Ohio State series is never a give me no matter what the rankings are going in.

I am very optimisitic over this years team, but I agree with Edman, this is Michigan football. Why cant we be successful in 2008 and 2010? Those who shrugged at 7 or 8 wins really ate crow last year.

you cant compare Pat White to forcier, the kid has not even stepped on a football field and played a game for ol maize and blue. Pat White was a lucky grab for rr and the only QB to ever win four bowl games at the position.

Iowa has almost all of a top 10 defense coming back in the nation. Hoyer was not that great, plus State's WRs are a year better, and wont drop 60+ balls over a whole season.

The OSU game for michigan is a joke, 21 point underdog last year? Even if OSU is down somewhat this year, it shouldnt be much of a game. if michigan loses any defensive starter, it wont be pretty, there is not much depth.

As far as saying this is michigan football, well, it was michigan football. michigan football has been known as a football factory, pumping out WRs, linemen, QBs, RBS, LBs... but what happens now when all the guys are small and fast, and not NFL caliber? how many pros did rr have at WV? outside of 3 guys like owen schmidt, pat white, steve slaton, not much. no real big name players like woodley, long, edwards. for the sake of what was michigan football, rr needs to go.

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you cant compare Pat White to forcier, the kid has not even stepped on a football field and played a game for ol maize and blue. Pat White was a lucky grab for rr and the only QB to ever win four bowl games at the position.

Iowa has almost all of a top 10 defense coming back in the nation. Hoyer was not that great, plus State's WRs are a year better, and wont drop 60+ balls over a whole season.

The OSU game for michigan is a joke, 21 point underdog last year? Even if OSU is down somewhat this year, it shouldnt be much of a game. if michigan loses any defensive starter, it wont be pretty, there is not much depth.

As far as saying this is michigan football, well, it was michigan football. michigan football has been known as a football factory, pumping out WRs, linemen, QBs, RBS, LBs... but what happens now when all the guys are small and fast, and not NFL caliber? how many pros did rr have at WV? outside of 3 guys like owen schmidt, pat white, steve slaton, not much. no real big name players like woodley, long, edwards. for the sake of what was michigan football, rr needs to go.

Just because that is the caliber of player rr could recruit to WVU doesn't mean it's the caliber of player he can get to come to UM. Yes he may wanna his linemen to have more speed, but that can be helped in training. It doesn't mean they're necessarily going to be small & not NFL-caliber. The truth is you don't know for sure yet what kind of linemen he's going to be able to recruit, `cuz he's only had really 1 recruiting season.

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I know I for one only judge the successes of my favorite college program by how many players are drafted into the NFL each year.

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its not just the amount of nfl players, hes just a bad coach for michigan. he averages 68% running the ball at WV, and with a freshman, forcier could get hurt and then you are left with sheridan. even if robinson gets his shot at qb, he has what, a fall camp to learn the entire offense? it will be another rough season for michigan,

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Excatley, that is the tradition of Michigan football. They have ran the pro style since before Bo and the athletic department wanted Les Miles and then once he denied their offer, they reached for the next big name.

Michigan did not run a "pro style" offense under Bo. They ran a lot of option. They certainly did not throw the ball with any sort of frequency.

The style of offense ran under Lloyd Carr was implemented moreso by Gary Moeller than Bo.

The athletic department didn't want Les Miles, which is why they didn't make him an offer. Lloyd and Les don't get along very well going back to the post-Bo days.

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its not just the amount of nfl players, hes just a bad coach for michigan. he averages 68% running the ball at WV, and with a freshman, forcier could get hurt and then you are left with sheridan. even if robinson gets his shot at qb, he has what, a fall camp to learn the entire offense? it will be another rough season for michigan,

1) Why is running the football bad for Michigan?

2) If you have Steve Slaton, Pat White and Owen Schmitt in your backfield do you: A. run more B. pass more. Hmmm....

3) Shaun King threw for almost 3500 yards in a single season with RR as the offensive coordinator. Rodriguez will play to his talent.

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3) Shaun King threw for almost 3500 yards in a single season with RR as the offensive coordinator. Rodriguez will play to his talent.

I'm not sure I agree with that. What about last year? He had Threet who - like Shaun King - was more of a drop back passer and certainly wasn't a Pat White type QB. Yet RRod didn't change the offense one bit to suit him, instead he tried to play Sheridan and shove Threet's game into his offense.

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I'm not sure I agree with that. What about last year? He had Threet who - like Shaun King - was more of a drop back passer and certainly wasn't a Pat White type QB. Yet RRod didn't change the offense one bit to suit him, instead he tried to play Sheridan and shove Threet's game into his offense.

I certainly meant within the confines of his system, Rodriguez will play to his talent. I'm not sure how you play to Threet's talents. What do you do with a slow QB that completes 51% of his passes, and most of those are short routes? I don't know what you can take away from Rodriguez offense last year. The offensive line and QBs were so bad. Rodriguez was just searching for anything that would work most of the year.

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