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CoachBelch

Fire Tram, hire Gibby

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Let's face it . Alan Trammel is a horrible manager. His in-game moves are baffling. He tries to steal way to much and kills rallies.

And what happened to him being this great teacher? Are young players are supposed to be devoping under his watch! They are all getting worse instead of showing signs of improvment. Infante. santiago and Inge were all better last year without are great saviour Alan Trammel. I know they were going to be bad but the mental blunders and mistakes like missing signs and letting pop-ups drop are a reflection on the manager. We are still getting guys throw out by three feet on hit and runs. I have not see another team playing vs us miss a sign like that all year. We get a guy throw out once a week on that.

Carlos Pena also better before this year. Their is something to be said for why these young players that are supposed to be improving and learning the game from tram are all taking a step in the wrong direction and infante and Santigo look like they have the baseball IQ of about 0. Sorry Tram but your not getting it done. Phil Garner and Buddy Bell are much better managers and I think time will prove me right. Thanks for the 84 memories tram

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Hey, I can shoot a basketball, but not even the legendary Jerry West could turn me into an NBA prodigy - over night. In all likelihood, it'd never happen, cause my all around skill level is simply not there, at a NBA level. Which I am secure with - now.

I mean, tell me...how can Tram teach kids, who in all likelihood, never belonged in the big leagues to begin with? I mean, if anyone thought Tram was to become a "miracle worker", over night - PLEASE - wake up!

:classic:

How was your nap ?

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I will show a great deal of restraint, and say that you are entitled to your opinion.

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I kind of wish I hadn't given credence to such a poorly thought piece of junk thread by responding to it. I'm biting my toungue, so to say.

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cruzer1

To what I said...or what CoachBelch said ?

It's late, but...

I know you don't like me, but that's cool.

I know you know your baseball :classic:

Oh, never asked you...

What you thought of the NBA DRAFT ?

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JB, it's nothing personal. I was responding to the thread. Actually I appreciate the respect you give me.

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I can't believe all the criticism DD and Tram have been taking. It's way, way, WAY too early to be crucifying either. First of all, Dombrowski is trying to undo nearly 10 years of incompetence by a cherubic fool. Smith did NOT produce a single ML star in all of his drafts. Not a single freaking one. And the Major Leaguers he produced on his watch are, by and large, no better than second tier players, at best. A chimp could draw names out of a hat and pick at least one star-caliber Major League ballplayer.

And Tram has been here four months, FOUR months, so it is far from fair to blame him for the mess. Remember, both are STILL using the players Smith gave to them. Give Dombrowski's drafted players(especially the most recent draft) a chance to move through the system and see what we have.

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I agree 100%

Trammell has been a terrible manager. But how can you not like him?

Lets see what happens next year....even if its a terrible year the TIgers will still be 15 games better and that will give us all hope.

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Belcher,

I partially agree with you. I do not think he is doing a good job either but I also do not know if the alternative (firing him) would be any better. I am watching with a criticle eye but at the same time, giving Tram a free pass, not because of who he is but because of the situation. I feel the root problem is the lack of talent on the team. The hope for me is that Tram learns from his managerial blunders as the talent grows. If so, he will be fine.

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I think Tram runs way too much also. I am hoping that he will come to the realisation that steals only help when the success rate is very high. Ricky Henderson in his prime was a great weapon. Higginson or even Sanchez is a net lose to the offense when they steal. Will Tram be a good or bad manager? Since this season is not going anywhere, at least his learning process can take place w/o any big goals on the line. Immediate, dramatic improvement of this team, no matter who manages them, is not being realistic.

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With a team average in the .220s, and an obp not much higher, Trammell has no choice but to gamble. If he waits for hits, and does nothing, then that's even worse. Also, with Gibson as the bench coach, the Tigers will always run.

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The only knock on Trammell is that he can't take a load of crap and turn it into a load of diamonds.

Oh and I must say that you seem to be overstating the impact a manager can have a team by quite a bit. In baseball more than probably any other sport it comes down to individual players and their talent. Illitch you can blame for this mess. DD simply hasn't been here long enough to blame and Trammell can't be blamed unless he eventually has a ton of talent on his team yet still loses or starts abusing young pitchers.

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My thread does not blame Tram for this mess. I just looking at are young players and trying to see improvement as the season goes on. This is suppose to be alot of teaching going on this team and I don't see it. I see sloppy baseball. Sloppy baseball is a reflection on the manager. Why are these youngsters getting worse!

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As the resident conspiracy theorist – Trammell, Gibby and Parrish were hired to be the “patsy.” Can you imagine if the manager was anyone but Trammell? Attendance at Tiger games would be virtually zero. Whoever the manager was would be roasted daily on the sports talk shows, the newspaper and yes, MototownTigers.com. The sad thing is Trammell and especially Gibson should have known that they were being pimped out. While Gibson was still on WXYT’s Locker Room” program, Gary Danielson repeatedly warned Gibson to tell Trammell (Gibson was not yet on the staff) to make sure his (Trammell’s) hiring as manager wasn’t just an Illitch charade to buy time. Danelsion still talks about it to this day – that Trammell and Gibson were fooled because they wanted to manage/coach so badly. The “watch the young Tigers learn” is utter nonsense. When Sparky was hired, his coaching staff included Gates Brown and Dick Tracewski – members of the 1968 champs. Also on the staff was Roger Craig who was on several championship teams. NEVER did you hear anyone say “Watch them teach – watch them learn.” Hiring Lance Parrish as the bullpen catcher is a non-factor. The Tigers might as well have hired Eddie Putman or me. We both have the necessary qualifications: Answering the bullpen telephone and saying “OK.” Furthermore, the youngest guy on the team is Bonderman at age 20. That means that he has been playing baseball for approximately 15 years! Anyone on the team older than him has been playing longer. What are you going to teach him or anyone else on the team? How to play baseball? If you don’t know how to play baseball after 15+ years, you sure as hell aren’t going to figure it out overnight!

:alien:

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In my opinion...

It's not a bad thing if we break the "loss record", as long as we're not chasing our own record, next year. Now, if this is what I hope it is, and that of a "cleaning house season", where we find the players who can play...and more so...cut loose the one's who can't - fine. I could live with that.

But, this is not Tram's fault -- for our record. Why not take your fingers...and point them back to the players.

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When the Tigers attempt to steal and get thrown out...it is a positive in that it takes away the double play opportunity for the opposing team. :classic:

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Here's my thinking...

We haven't had a winning record since the Gulf War(or pretty close to it). We've also had manager after manager, who couldn't get through to the players. We've now had to go and get the minor leaguers brought up early. First, no manager in the major leagues can get a minor league hitter to be a good player in the majors right away. I don't think so, at least. You can't sit there and tell me a guy like Buddy Bell or Scrap Iron could have done any better with these guys. At least we have a manager that's played "recently", relatively speaking, and knows about today's game. We could go out and get a great manager like Joe Torre or something, but what would that prove? I bet Torre even couldn't get this club a winning record. It's like sticking an elementary school kid in grade 12 and saying "here, I'll teach you this math and by the end of the year you'll be good at it". It can't always happen. Tram is doing the best he can. He's taking risks sometimes, which you have to do. He's not the best manager we've ever had, but it's not like we've given him all-stars to work with either. Give him time. He's not happy about this, and neither are we, but at least we aren't being blown out like last year's squad. At least we care about this game. We aren't winning, no, but we're in many games. The age/experience thing is what's killing us. We don't know how to win at a major league level. I think Tram is the guy to help us with that. Might take a while, but at some point, we'll be better.

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Ok, for all you "Trammell as a manager" bashers a little math for ya.

bad players + young (AAA) players = losses

now plug in a manager into that equation, regardless if its trammell or dusty baker or whoever you think is the best manager ever and I can't see how the equation changes. For a team that struggles so much offensively how can you people complain about his aggressiveness. Hindsight is 20/20 and looking back sure trammell has made mistakes. Everybody does. Everybody looked at this season hoping to see some character develop along with the players. Trammell has the aggressiveness going, if we lose that on top of the season that we have had, then this season will truly be a waste and then I will agree with those of you bashing trammell

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Ronz

I totally agree with you. Tram and Gibby and the rest fo the 84 boys are all being used to ease the pain of this horrible rebuiding process. They are hoping tiger fans will be a little more patient because it's tram. If Tram was such a great pick why weren't other teams knocking on his door to manage. It's save to say this will be tram last mangerial job. I give it two years. That's if he wants to come back next year.

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My view is they are trying to do the best they can with what they have and the Tigers don't have much right now. I don't think firing managers is the right thing especially when you are trying to clean house. I don't think Joe Torre or Bobby Cox or anyone would be able to wave the magic wand overnight and all of a sudden we are playing .500 or so ball. I think Bobby Cox had a few losing seasons in Atlanta with young players before they started to win. The organization needs stability how many managers have been here since Illich bought the team? More than a few. It's not a question of who can manage, many out there say they can manage a ball club. It's a matter of who can get the most out of his players.

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