Jump to content

slim pickens

Lions tried to trade for Jay Cutler.....

Recommended Posts

Not this again...just keep the "gunslingers don't win" to yourself. He's proven to be successful in this league. Top 5 or 6

Can you prove he's a top 5?

Can you prove that gunslingers can win in this millenium?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brett Farve?

Not this millenium.

In fact, he's been pretty average the past 5 years.

His one great season was when he stopped trying to force throws and played smart. Eventually he reverted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well... he is a gunslinger throughout his career.... some Bio....

per officialbrettfavre.com

SUPER BOWL YEARS

* Favre led the Packers to their best season in 30-years in the 1996 season, winning his second consecutive MVP award in the process. The Packers led the NFL in points scored as well as fewest points scored against. Green Bay tied the Denver Broncos for the NFL's best regular season record, 13-3, defeated the San Francisco 49ers and Carolina Panthers at Lambeau Field in the playoffs. The Packers advanced to Super Bowl XXXI at the Louisiana Superdome, a short drive from Favre's hometown.

* In Super Bowl XXXI, Favre completed 14 of 27 passes for 246 yards and 2 touchdowns. On the second play of the game, Favre threw a 54-yard touchdown pass to receiver Andre Rison. Favre also completed an 81-yard touchdown pass to Antonio Freeman in the second quarter (then a Super Bowl record). Favre rushed for 12 yards and another touchdown, as the Packers won Super Bowl XXXI over the New England Patriots, 35-21. In their 19 games of the season, the Packers had a turnover ratio of plus 24, and outscored their opponents 100-48 in the playoffs.

* Favre and the Packers continued their dominance of the NFC during the next season. Favre was named AP co-MVP of the league along with Detroit Lions' running back Barry Sanders, his third straight award. Also, Green Bay advanced to the Super Bowl for the second year in a row. After being heavily favored, the Packers lost to the Denver Broncos in Super Bowl XXXII by the score of 31-24 at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego. Favre completed 25 of 42 passes for 256 yards and 3 touchdowns.

CONSISTENTLY ONE OF THE BEST

* At the top of his game throughout his career, Favre remained one of the most worthy adversaries for defensive coordinators in his final season

* In 2007, he helped the Packers post the third-best single-season marks in franchise history for total net yards (5,931) and points (435) as Green Bay finished No. 2 among NFL offenses, its highest ranking since 1983

* His output included his fifth season of 4,000-plus yards passing along with a career-best completion percentage of 66.5, and he combined with Aaron Rodgers and Craig Nall to tie the franchise single-season record for completions (383) and set a new team standard for completion percentage (66.3)

* He also established yet another franchise record with 20 consecutive completions in a sterling performance on Thanksgiving Day in Detroit

* He ultimately finished runner-up to New England's Tom Brady in his bid for an unprecedented fourth NFL MVP, and he was selected to the Pro Bowl for the ninth time, tying Forrest Gregg's team record.

AMONG ALL-TIME GREATS

* Long considered one of the NFL's best ever, Favre ranks at the top of a number of the league's all-time lists

* Over the course of 2007, established five NFL records, surpassing Marino's marks for touchdowns, attempts and yards, plus his record for three-touchdown games with his 63rd three-TD effort (Marino had 62)

* Also eclipsed Elway's mark for victories under center

* Extended a handful of other all-time marks, including career completions, seasons with at least 300 completions (16) and 3,000 yards passing (16), and TD passes in a single stadium (209 at Lambeau Field)

* Is one of only three quarterbacks in league history to post as many as five 4,000-yard seasons (also doing so in 1995, '98, '99, and 2004); Marino (6) and Peyton Manning (8) are the others

* With seven 300-yard passing performances in 2007, tying his career-high (1995), had 55 such career outings - tops among active NFL players through 2007

* Is the NFL's most accurate passer among those with at least 6,000 career attempts, his 61.4 career completion percentage placing him ahead of No. 2 Marino (59.4 percent)

* Has solidified his standing among the game's all-time elite by earning the NFL's 'MVP' honor a record three times, capturing the Associated Press award over the 1995, 1996 and 1997 seasons; he was runner-up in 2002 and 2007 as well

* Honored in "co-status" with the Detroit Lions' Barry Sanders in 1997, he became the first player in league history to win the award three times, let alone in three consecutive years

* Incomparability of the strong-armed Southerner is further evidenced by his selection in 2000 to the 1990s NFL All-Decade second team as voted by the Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee

* Also ranked as the ninth-best player in 'NFL Player of the Century' voting, conducted on nfl.com during the 1999 season

* With it being impossible for someone to better it, will be the permanent possessor of at least one all-time NFL record - that for longest pass completion - as he hooked up with wideout Robert Brooks for a 99-yard score in a 1995 game at Chicago

* In 2003 became part of the second-longest rush in NFL annals, handing off to Ahman Green on a play that resulted in a 98-yard TD, vs. Denver in the season finale.

A WINNER

* Throughout his career, has disdained talk of statistics, concerning himself most with his team's victories

* And in 2007, asserted himself as the NFL's winningest quarterback ever, surpassing all-time leader Elway with his 149th victory in Week 2 at the New York Giants; went on to win 11 more to give him 160 in his career

* From 1992-2004, won at least eight games an NFL-record 13 consecutive seasons, substantially better than the next closest player, Ken Stabler, who had eight straight .500-or-better seasons from 1973-80

* Rebounding in 2006 and '07, finished without a losing record in 15 of his 16 years as the Packers' starter, having entered the season's final weekend in playoff contention for all but one campaign

* Also led the Packers to an NFL-best 160-93 record since taking over as the starter in the fourth week of the 1992 season

* His record as a leader consists of 11 playoff berths, including a club-record six in a row (1993-98), three straight NFC Central Division crowns (1995-97), four NFC North Division titles, including three in a row (2002-04, '07), four NFC Championship games, also including three straight (1995-97, '07) and back-to-back Super Bowl appearances, including a 35-21 victory over New England in Super Bowl XXXI, returning the Lombardi Trophy to Green Bay for the first time in 29 years

* Upon defeating Chicago in December of 2000, became the third-fastest player in the NFL since 1970 to reach 100 regular-season victories, doing so in his 153rd career start; only Joe Montana (139) and Terry Bradshaw (147) got to the century mark quicker over the past 37 seasons

* Since his first year as a starter in 1992, held a 49-18 record (.731) in regular-season games in December, the fourth-best mark among NFL starters who began their careers post-1970 (min. 20 starts); Brady (.867, 26-4), Joe Theismann (.773, 17-5) and Montana (.767, 33-10) rank just ahead in December winning percentage

* Owns 40 career fourth-quarter or overtime comebacks (which includes three postseason contests)

* A game conductor of the highest caliber, led the Packers to a nearly perfect 56-2 regular-season record since 1992 in games where they had more rushing attempts than passing attempts.

DOMINANTLY DURABLE

* As indestructible as football players come, started an NFL-quarterback-record 253 consecutive regular-season contests (275 including playoffs) - 93 games (equivalent of better than five-and-a-half seasons) more than the next closest streak among league QBs all-time, 160 by Manning (1998-2007)

* Only five veterans active in 2007 across the league - all kickers -played as many or more games than Favre (257): Morten Andersen (368), Jeff Feagles (320), Matt Stover (271), John Carney (266), and Junior Seau (also 257)

* Played much of the 2003 season with a broken thumb on his right (throwing) hand

* In 2007 surpassed former Viking Mick Tinglehoff (240, 1962-78) for the second-longest recorded starting streak of all-time, behind only another former Viking, Jim Marshall (270, 1961-79)

* Actually played in 255 consecutive regular-season contests, having seen action in two contests as a reserve leading into his starting streak

* Ten more signal callers made their initial NFL starts in 2007, meaning that a total of 212 league quarterbacks have opened a game since Favre began his starting streak Sept. 27, 1992

* Furthermore, through his retirement, he was the only athlete in the four major sports to have started every game for the same team since Sept. 27, 1992, having been presented his opportunity the previous week when Don Majkowski suffered strained ligaments in his left ankle midway through the first quarter of Cincinnati contest

* During his remarkable run, 17 different quarterbacks served as his backup in Green Bay; chronologically, they were Majkowski (1992), Ty Detmer (1992-95), Mark Brunell (1993-94), T.J. Rubley (1995), Bob Gagliano (1995), Doug Pederson (1995-98, 2001-04), Jim McMahon (1995-96), Steve Bono (1997), Rick Mirer (1998), Matt Hasselbeck (1999-2000), Aaron Brooks (1999), Danny Wuerffel (2000), Henry Burris (2001), Craig Nall (2002-05, '07), Aaron Rodgers (2005-07), Ingle Martin (2006) and Todd Bouman (2006); only seven times over the course of his streak did a backup have to complete a game due to injury - Oct. 20, 1994, at Minnesota (hip), when Brunell wrapped up the contest; Nov. 5, 1995, at Minnesota (ankle), when Detmer subbed in before injuring his thumb and giving way to Rubley; Nov. 12, 2000, at Tampa Bay (ankle), when Hasselbeck was called upon to finish the game; Oct. 20, 2002, vs. Washington (knee), when Pederson completed the contest; Oct. 3, 2004, vs. the New York Giants (concussion), when Pederson took over before suffering a rib injury and Nall finished the game; Nov. 19, 2006, vs. New England (elbow), when Rodgers played the final 32 minutes and sustained a season-ending broken foot; and Nov. 29, 2007, at Dallas (elbow, shoulder), when Rodgers entered in the second quarter and recorded his first NFL TD pass.

TOUCHDOWN PRODUCER

* Highly productive in firing touchdown passes, has an NFL-record 442 career, surpassing Marino's previous mark of 420 in Week 3 at Minnesota

* In 2007 he recorded at least 20 TD passes for the 13th time in 14 seasons

* In 2004, he extended his own NFL record with his eighth career season of 30-or-more touchdown passes - twice as many as any other quarterback in league history (Marino and Manning, with four each, stand second)

* As recently as 2004, finished fourth in the NFL in TD passes, behind the Colts' Manning (49), the Vikings' Daunte Culpepper (39) and the Eagles' Donovan McNabb (31)

* Also that season stretched his streak of consecutive games with a touchdown pass to 36 - a franchise record and the second-longest streak in league history, behind only the 47-game string of Johnny Unitas (1956-60); string ended Dec. 5, 2004, at Philadelphia

* In 2007, extended his own league mark with three more TD passes of 75 yards-or-more, giving him 14 in his career; also tied and broke the league record with his eighth and ninth TD passes of at least 80 yards

* Authored 19 games of at least four TD passes, good for second place in NFL history behind only Marino (21)

* Has 63 career games with three-or-more TD passes, first in NFL history and one better than Marino (62)

* With 209 career TD passes at Lambeau Field, the NFL record for a single stadium, has 29 more than the next-closest mark, Elway's 180 at Mile High Stadium

* In road games, had 216 career TDs, more than any passer ever, breaking Marino's record (197) in 2006

* Had 25 TD passes at Chicago's Soldier Field, owning sole possession of fourth on that stadium's all-time list, behind three Bears quarterbacks: Erik Kramer (38), McMahon (37) and Jim Harbaugh (28)

* Owns NFL record (since 1970) for most consecutive games with a TD pass vs. a single opponent by throwing for a score in 26 straight games against the Bears (1992-2004)

* Had 54 career TD passes against both the Vikings and the Lions, tied for the second-highest total by a QB against a single opponent, with his 53 TDs against the Bears right behind

* Dependable in his production of scoring strikes, threw for at least one TD in 215 of his 255 career games with Green Bay, failing to do so in only 30 games since the start of the 1995 season.

just to give you a little background...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Broncos lost because they had no running game and no defense. Not because of Jay Cutler.

Hmm I guess the 2 Tds and 4 ints in the last 3 games had nothing to do with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hmm I guess the 2 Tds and 4 ints in the last 3 games had nothing to do with it.

Thats such a non argument. What about Pennigton's 4 int against Baltimore, maybe Delhomme against Arizona?? If you are going to take small sample sizes then it is okay to game managers do not win games. If Delhomme and Pennington, who are both managers rather than "gun slingers" cant win then aparently nobody can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hmm I guess the 2 Tds and 4 ints in the last 3 games had nothing to do with it.

@ Carolina, 10-30 Loss. 21-33 172 yards 1 TD 1 INT

Buffalo, 23-30 Loss. 25-45 359 yards 0 TD 1 INT

@ SD, 21-52 Loss. 33-49 316 yards 1 TD 2 INT

He threw 4 INT in 127 attempts. He had to throw so often because a) no running game b) no defense.

But sure, he obviously held back his team during that stretch. The Broncos would have been so much better with a "game manager" throwing it 50 times a game. :dead:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
These are ten of the ones I'd rather have leading my team- because in todays NFL, being a smart efficient leader makes a good QB.

Tom Brady Was, knee surgery could turn him into C. Pep

Peyton True

Phil Rivers True

Big Ben Maybe, he's more of a gunslinger than a game manager anyway

Kurt Warner No, he's a game manager, didn't win the superbowl, the team with a QB that extends the play and takes chances won

Carson Palmer Same as Brady

David Garrard That's a joke...he's average

Kerry Collins Puh-lease, his little 12 TDs and sub 3000 yards says otherwise

Donovan McNabb Possibly, probably.

The last spot goes to one of these guys- I believe they're slightly better QBs, not more talented, but better NFL QBs-

Matt Ryan Best running game in the NFL helps

Kyle Orton Not

Aaron Rodgers He's decent but not better

Chad Pennington Nope, not even close.

Yes, that seems a little farfetched but Cutler makes a good deal of throws he shouldnt- that's a no-no for NFL QBs.

You're reaching

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
These are ten of the ones I'd rather have leading my team- because in todays NFL, being a smart efficient leader makes a good QB.

Tom Brady

Peyton

Phil Rivers

Big Ben

Kurt Warner

Carson Palmer

David Garrard

Kerry Collins

Donovan McNabb

The last spot goes to one of these guys- I believe they're slightly better QBs, not more talented, but better NFL QBs-

Matt Ryan

Kyle Orton

Aaron Rodgers

Chad Pennington

Yes, that seems a little farfetched but Cutler makes a good deal of throws he shouldnt- that's a no-no for NFL QBs.

I disagree with the last 5 in your top nine list. Three are a few years away from being retired (and all three were hanging on to their jobs by their fingernails going into the year), and I think both Palmer and Gerrard being better than Cutler is a stretch.

I actually like Aaron Rodgers - but don't know if he is better than Cutler. If you don't think the Bears or 'Fins would trade Orton and Pennington, respectively, straight up for Cutler, then I don't know what to say. The jury is out on Ryan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know we are arguing the Cuter part of this deal but the fact is that we had a chance to get a really good young QB in Cassel and couldn't pull the trigger. I think the Chiefs got out easy with what they gave to get him. It could be argued that Cassell should have been in the Pro Bowl over Cutler. We were trying to trade a guy we didn't even have...which is kind of ridiculous to begin with. We should have done what it took to get Cassel, probably #20 and a 3rd which would have been a steal with the consistency we would have gotten out of it. Now as usual we have nothing except a crap shoot with the draft which 8 of the last 9 have not been all that great. Here's to 3-13!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Per rotoworld from Profootballtalk.com-

Sounds like we came so close and were set to give up a first rounder for him. The Broncos also could trade TE Tony Scheffler. Im seeing a posible match up for a trade here. We need a tight end too.

I wonder what went wrong seeing that KC got Cassel and Vrabel for a mere second rounder...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know we are arguing the Cuter part of this deal but the fact is that we had a chance to get a really good young QB in Cassel and couldn't pull the trigger. I think the Chiefs got out easy with what they gave to get him. It could be argued that Cassell should have been in the Pro Bowl over Cutler. We were trying to trade a guy we didn't even have...which is kind of ridiculous to begin with. We should have done what it took to get Cassel, probably #20 and a 3rd which would have been a steal with the consistency we would have gotten out of it. Now as usual we have nothing except a crap shoot with the draft which 8 of the last 9 have not been all that great. Here's to 3-13!!!

Who do you believe would have a better chance of succeeding on the Lions, Cutler or Cassel?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
These are ten of the ones I'd rather have leading my team- because in todays NFL, being a smart efficient leader makes a good QB.

Tom Brady

Peyton

Phil Rivers

Big Ben

Kurt Warner

Carson Palmer

David Garrard

Kerry Collins

Donovan McNabb

The last spot goes to one of these guys- I believe they're slightly better QBs, not more talented, but better NFL QBs-

Matt Ryan

Kyle Orton

Aaron Rodgers

Chad Pennington

Yes, that seems a little farfetched but Cutler makes a good deal of throws he shouldnt- that's a no-no for NFL QBs.

Cutler has had a mess of a team to deal with and has really had no chance to settle, that being said he is still better then all but 5 or 6 of the QB's you have named here !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what makes a qb a gunslinger?

someone who takes alot of chances, throws a decent amount of INT

someone who chucks it downfield all the time in tight coverage

high risk/reward plays

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cutler. He was higher regarded coming out of college, has more expirence and isnt in a system known to make people look better then they are. Id love to add Cutler.

Getting a young QB via trade is a much safer method then taking a rookie like Stafford.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Id honestly consider Big Ben a bit of a gunslinger.

But were missing the point here. Gunslinger or not hes better then any player we may draft, this is a pro bowl QB were talking about! Hes a talented player, which is something we do not have enough of.

We really cant be picky and I dont buy the we wont win a super bowl with him. If he gets us close or into the playoffs, great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know we are arguing the Cuter part of this deal but the fact is that we had a chance to get a really good young QB in Cassel and couldn't pull the trigger. I think the Chiefs got out easy with what they gave to get him. It could be argued that Cassell should have been in the Pro Bowl over Cutler. We were trying to trade a guy we didn't even have...which is kind of ridiculous to begin with. We should have done what it took to get Cassel, probably #20 and a 3rd which would have been a steal with the consistency we would have gotten out of it. Now as usual we have nothing except a crap shoot with the draft which 8 of the last 9 have not been all that great. Here's to 3-13!!!

Right now Cassel is a one year wonder ? I do belive he has the talent to make it in this league but he is going to have to deal with some problems in KC that he has not seen in N.E.

Now what we have if done right is a hole draft to fill a defense with some much needed talent, and a very good chance at getting a future great QB in the 2010 draft, while between the two drafts and free agency also setting our O-line up with young talent that for a change might actually be able to stay together long enough to jell and have some cohesion :classic:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason, I believe, that the deal didn't go down to sent Cutler either here or TB is that old Bill didn't want to help his old OC out. He creates a rivalry of sorts with his old assistants, see Mangini. I think he traded Cassel to KC, for less quality picks on top of it, because he didn't want McDaniels to succeed, it makes him look like Bill makes the team work and succeed rather than the assistants. Belichick doesn't care about a GM getting him because everyone knows that Pioli wasn't the final voice in personel, it's was Bill's say on what players were signed. Doesn't hurt his enormous ego.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rather give our #1 than our # 20 for Cutler......save about $50 million to spend on filling some holes.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rather have a one year wonder in the NFL that showed a lot of moxy and the ability to win games than an unproven shaky college player that is going to garner a potentially crippling contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who do you believe would have a better chance of succeeding on the Lions, Cutler or Cassel?

I think Cassel will be more consistent and make fewer mistakes. That is what this team needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How about #1 overall, and a 3rd for Cutler and #12. Personally I'd trade #1 overall for Cutler straight up if it came to that, I'd rather have Cutler then a guy who's peak is probably Cutler in 3 years.

I would do that in a heartbeat, although I doubt denver would.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...