Jump to content

Vonlenska

Hossa or Franzen?

Recommended Posts

Franzen. He is learning the "Zen of Goalie Screening" from Homer, and that isn't easily found.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me reiterate on that point.....

How many players have we drafted/signed with Holland & built up, that have turned out to be great players, when nobody else would take a chance on them?

It's not that I'm against Franzen in any way, but I'm fairly certain that we could find someone else to fill his shoes, where as I'm not so sure we could find a player of Hossa's caliber as easy.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You really don't think we can't find another player worthy of that?

No.

How many other Homers are there? None, and Franzen has only recently come out of his shell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a lot.....just not as many that are as good at it as Holmer. And for the record, at this point, I think Franzen is a better all around player than Holmer, but still.....when it comes down to it, Hossa is a better all around player than Franzen. So for that reason alone, I'll take Hossa & ? (hoping that ? player will be Leino) over Franzen & Hudler.

One thing that I haven't stressed is this.....I really think that Franzen is a product of the Wings.....meaning, he could go somewhere else & not have as good of numbers with them. Don't believe me? Just take a look at the talent he's been working with in the past two years meaning the lines he's been on.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing that I haven't stressed is this.....I really think that Franzen is a product of the Wings.....meaning, he could go somewhere else & not have as good of numbers with them. Don't believe me? Just take a look at the talent he's been working with in the past two years meaning the lines he's been on.....

This is highly unfair.

Two years ago, he had a total of 10 goals, and 20 assists. He broke out last year and is continuing this year. You don't attribute any of his success to the work hes done improving his game, and put it all on the linemates he has had?

I think were going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Letting Franzen walk would be a huge mistake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with everything you said, except it's more like Franzen was the type of player we had a better chance of replacing cheaply......

A guy doesn't just break out within the past two years like he has & then expect that he can be signed/re-signed for cheap. He knows he's already proven enough to make a decent pay day & I'm sure whoever his agent is knows the same thing.

By replacing cheaply, I meant the same thing you said in subsequent posts, that I believe we would develop another Franzen type or Homer type, etc. who initially, like Franzen would be cheaper. Our scouting and development is definitely at the top of the league. To develop a Hossa type is much more difficult at our draft position. We have done it a couple times, but IMO we have a better shot at replacing Franzen cheaper than replacing Hossa. Now it may not be next year that the replacement is ready, but w/in a couple year anyhow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is highly unfair.

Two years ago, he had a total of 10 goals, and 20 assists. He broke out last year and is continuing this year. You don't attribute any of his success to the work hes done improving his game, and put it all on the linemates he has had?

I think were going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Letting Franzen walk would be a huge mistake.

Roughly two Franzen contracts = one Hossa contract (maybe a bit less than two as my guess Franzen goes for near $4M).

Right now we are commited to $47M for next year and if the cap is $57M we need to fit ten roster spots into $10M. That's gonna be hard to do with Hossa if he signs for $7M.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=DET&season=0809

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know his site sucks, but maybe we have an answer soon?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Franzen-Extension-Almost-E5-Islanders-for-Sale-Another-team-and-Vinny/1/19231

First off I am chasing down a rumor that Johan Franzen is about to sign an extension with the Red Wings. Not sure on the money yet, but it looks like another very long deal. It will be interesting to see how the Red Wings are going to make this whole thing work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm leaning Franzen anyways...

I particarly like the "Screen the Goalie" expertise...

I know Hossa's looking like a dominant superstar... but the cap is limiting and I'm thinking Hossa will go for a big $9-10 mill per year contract. That means we're out... and we gotta look at the young guys coming up to replace that skill set... if not now, then perhaps in the future (Leine, Helms, Abdelkader... these guys gotta develop and start stepping into roles...).

2 cents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As to Hossa I have read rumors that he really wants to stay as a Wing and is willing to take less to stay, but that he isnt completely willing to go bottom dollar and would still want at least $7 mil a year. So I dont think it would cost us 9-10 mil to keep him, but even 7 mil may be too much. I wouldnt mind trading Filpulla and his $3.5 mil for basically nothing to get us cap room to sign Hossa because I dont see Filpulla ever living up to his potential and think guys like Abdelkader (.7 mil), Helm (.5 mil) and Leino(FA, but probably still not that much) doing what he does for cheaper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...I wouldnt mind trading Filpulla and his $3.5 mil for basically nothing to get us cap room to sign Hossa ...

I think this is the correct path in trying to sign both Franzen and Hossa...

With the problem of... who's going to trade us anything for Filpulla?

To a bad team willing to take a chance on Filps, for a late-rounder?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think this is the correct path in trying to sign both Franzen and Hossa...

With the problem of... who's going to trade us anything for Filpulla?

To a bad team willing to take a chance on Filps, for a late-rounder?

Might need to lose Filpulla AND Hudler.

Still, Hossa is a top-10 player in the league, and if you have a chance to hang on to him, do whatever you can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Might need to lose Filpulla AND Hudler. Still, Hossa is a top-10 player in the league, and if you have a chance to hang on to him, do whatever you can.

If we had to lose BOTH Filpulla and Hudler to sign Franzen & Hossa...

That would NOT bother me at ALL!!!

I have no problem trading Filp's if we can, and letting Hudler walk... none whatsoever... not if it guarantees we can hold onto Franz & Hossa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hudler would be a tough loss IMO, 5 years younger than Hossa and only 11 less pts this year. Hossa is a better player, but I think Hudler has potential to be a top line player. But honestly Hudler at full potential still probably isnt as good Hossa. Either way we are going to be losing some good talent this offseason unless we get some retirements/trades.

These are guys whose salary is on the books I wouldnt mind losing, but might be hard to do

Filpulla - 3.5 mil cap hit down the road

Cleary - 3 mil cap hit down the road

I also wouldnt mind seeing one of Kronwall(3.5) or Stuart(3.75) traded with some of the yound DMan we have.

I wonder if a guy like Hudler would be willing to take a 1 year contract at decreased pay and then when Lidstrom is a FA i could see him take one for the team and sign a cheaper deal to keep some of his teammates around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

although if Huds signs elsewhere (he would get at least 2.6 mil if he did), we would get a first and a third in return as compensation, which would give us cap room for the others and two good picks. So that might be a good way to go.

edit -

so this sounds like best solution to me, trade Filpulla for a late round pick, let Hudler walk and get the 2 draft picks. Re-sign Hossa and Franzen. You get the two best players of the bunch and pick up extra picks to let the wings scouts work their magic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hossa just turned 30. His age won't be an issue for 5 years or so. So I don't give Franzen or Hudler or Filppula any advantage whatsoever over him with respect to age.

I would hang on to Stuart and Kronwall. Again, age won't be a factor for foreseeable future with them (Although injuries might with Kronwall). Sure, have some good defenseman in Grand Rapids, but no guarantee any will ever be as good as today's Stuart, let alone better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hossa just turned 30. His age won't be an issue for 5 years or so. So I don't give Franzen or Hudler or Filppula any advantage whatsoever over him with respect to age.

I would hang on to Stuart and Kronwall. Again, age won't be a factor for foreseeable future with them (Although injuries might with Kronwall). Sure, have some good defenseman in Grand Rapids, but no guarantee any will ever be as good as today's Stuart, let alone better.

I agree, thats why I changed my mind in that last post and said to part ways with Hudler and Filpulla. Also let Sammy walk. I still dont know if the numbers will work out or not.

2009-10 cap numbers (not sure if its 100% accurate)

Lidstrom - 7.45

Datsyuk - 6.7

Zetterberg - 6

Rafalski - 6

Stuart - 3.75

Kronwall - 3 (i think)

Cleary - 2.8

Holmstrom - 2.25

Draper - 1.583

Ozzie - 1.416

Lilja - 1.250

Maltby - .883

Leino - .875 (FA, would love him at this price, if more expensive take another GR guy)

Abdelkader - .74

Howard - .716

Lebda - .65

Helm - .599

Kopecky - .5 (FA, but probably similar deal)

Meech - .483

That puts you at 10 forwards, 7 defenseman and 2 goalies with a cap hit of $47.64. Assuming a salary cap of $56 like we have now that would give us 8.36 to sign both Hossa and Franzen. Still looks tough to do considering they combined make more than that this year. I wouldnt mind Draper and/or Maltby retiring and replacing them with maybe a Ritola and a Mursak (or cheap FA) to save another $1.28 million, then the $9.7 mil of cap space might be doable. Give Hossa a long term Z type deal with around a 7 mil cap hit and then a shorter term deal with Johan at around a 2.5 cap hit.

that would give us

Hossa-Datsyuk-Homer

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Helm-Abdelkader-Leino

Kopecky-Mursak-Ritola

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Stuart-Kronwall

Lilja-Lebda

Meech

Ozzie-Howard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also really want to see Ericsson in NHL consistently, I would place Lilja on waivers and hope someone claims him or trade him for anything as well. That would also clear .35 mil in salary and I think Ericsson could play as well as Lilja does. I really hope he gets healthy soon so we can give him some games up here now to see if he is ready.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like lots of your moves, Johnny Mac. It would keep the core and replace the content 2nd tier players with new hungry 2nd tier players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am glad I don't have to make these tough decisions. I would love to keep Hossa and Franzen. I would prefer Hossa between those two though. Hudler maybe a casualty and the two draft picks makes that a bit easier to swollow. It seems to me that the more the Wings see Leino and Abby that moves will be made to aaccomadate those two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am glad I don't have to make these tough decisions. I would love to keep Hossa and Franzen. I would prefer Hossa between those two though. Hudler maybe a casualty and the two draft picks makes that a bit easier to swollow. It seems to me that the more the Wings see Leino and Abby that moves will be made to aaccomadate those two.

Id say they are more impressed with Helm than Abdelkader, Abs was sent down after just 2 games to bring up Helm. I think if we can get Leino at a reasonable price, Leino and Helm are going to be on the team next year. Abdelkader is borderline depending how things play out. Abdelkader is the least NHL ready of the 3 IMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Motown Sports Blog



×
×
  • Create New...