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Tigerclaws

Should Lions draft quarterback in first round?

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DO not draft a QB in the first!!!! I want to see the defense improve before we waste a pick a player that's going to sit for 2 years.

A player that's going to sit for two years? Huh? Do your research as this is completely inaccurate.

Of the 14 QB's taken in the first round over the past 5 drafts, only 4 did not start multiple games their rookie season. Aaron Rodgers was the only one of this group not to start multiple games by their 2nd season.

Aaron Rodgers

Brady Quinn

Phillip Rivers

JP Losman

Every other QB taken with a 1st had at least 3 starts as a rookie.

Matt Ryan

Joe Flacco

JaMarcus Russell

Vince Young

Matt Leinart

Jay Cutler

Jason Campbell

Ben Roethlisberger

Alex Smith

Eli Manning

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The problem with the Lions is they have never drafted a qb like:

Matt Ryan

Joe Flacco

JaMarcus Russell

Vince Young

Matt Leinart

Jay Cutler

Jason Campbell

Ben Roethlisberger

Alex Smith

Eli Manning

And they have had top 10 picks for what seems like forever now.

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I enlisted by crack research staff (not on crack!) to take a look at the draft status of Super Bowl QB's. Here's what they found. Their have been 49 different Super Bowl QB's (some have been there more than once, obviously).

Of the 49, here is the draft status:

1st rounders- 24

2nd/3rd round- 10

4th-6th- 6

7th and above/undrafted- 8

Supplemental draft- 1.

Thoughts???

Some notable Super Bowl QB's I found interesting:

Johnny Unitas- 9th round and cut by Pittsburgh. Picked up from a semi-pro team.

Jim Plunkett- 1st overall pick, then picked up off the scrap heap by the Raiders.

Bart Starr-17th round

Tom Brady- 6th round

Tony Eason- 1st round

Doug Williams- 1st round

Trent Dilfer- 1st round

Rex Grossman- 1st round

Marino, Kelly, Elway- all in the same year 1st round

Joe Montana - 3rd round

Terry Bradshaw- 1st overall selection

Kurt Warner- undrafted

Jake Delhomme- undrafted

Roger Staubach- 10th round

Kerry Collins- 1st round

Matt Hasselbeck- 6th round

Stan Humphries- 6th round

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I enlisted by crack research staff (not on crack!) to take a look at the draft status of Super Bowl QB's. Here's what they found. Their have been 49 different Super Bowl QB's (some have been there more than once, obviously).

Of the 49, here is the draft status:

1st rounders- 24

2nd/3rd round- 10

4th-6th- 6

7th and above/undrafted- 8

Supplemental draft- 1.

Thoughts???

Some notable Super Bowl QB's I found interesting:

Johnny Unitas- 9th round and cut by Pittsburgh. Picked up from a semi-pro team.

Jim Plunkett- 1st overall pick, then picked up off the scrap heap by the Raiders.

Bart Starr-17th round

Tom Brady- 6th round

Tony Eason- 1st round

Doug Williams- 1st round

Trent Dilfer- 1st round

Rex Grossman- 1st round

Marino, Kelly, Elway- all in the same year 1st round

Joe Montana - 3rd round

Terry Bradshaw- 1st overall selection

Kurt Warner- undrafted

Jake Delhomme- undrafted

Roger Staubach- 10th round

Kerry Collins- 1st round

Matt Hasselbeck- 6th round

Stan Humphries- 6th round

I don't think there's any real value in comparing draft picks from 20 years ago with draft picks today. THere's so much more information and study that goes into those picks today.

The fact that Bart Starr and Johnny Unitas were low round picks means nothing to me. Staubach was a special case because he was going to the Navy.

The point is, if you have the #1 pick and there is a QB who you think or who grades out as a great player, you have to take him. If there isn't, then take someone on the lines, either a DE or an LT.

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I don't think there's any real value in comparing draft picks from 20 years ago with draft picks today. THere's so much more information and study that goes into those picks today.

The fact that Bart Starr and Johnny Unitas were low round picks means nothing to me. Staubach was a special case because he was going to the Navy.

The point is, if you have the #1 pick and there is a QB who you think or who grades out as a great player, you have to take him. If there isn't, then take someone on the lines, either a DE or an LT.

I was thinking the same thing. But, are Bradford and Stafford great players?

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I have stayed out of this thread because I really have no clue how I want to address the QB situation. It's bad. We know that. It needs to be addressed.

But the defense is just so pathetically bad. I really don't know enough about the QBs being listed on the top of the draft. Maybe if I did, I'd think about selecting one of these guys, but I guess I'll need to start looking into it.

Every game I watch I just look at that defense and wonder how the heck they are going to get one stop a game. You get the sense that they are outmatched as much as a D2 team would be against a very good BCS conference team. You just hope something lucky happens for them so they can get a stop. They are out of position. When they aren't they aren't physically able to make plays at any reasonably efficient rate. They are just bad.

I'm glad I'm not going to be the GM when it comes to the QB issue. I know I want to improve that defense and yet I know I need that QB as well. There are plenty of options with the selections. But it's a tough question to address - early draft pick, late draft pick, free agents, or just stay with something of the four-headed monster we had this year? All have legit points.

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I have stayed out of this thread because I really have no clue how I want to address the QB situation. It's bad. We know that. It needs to be addressed.

But the defense is just so pathetically bad. I really don't know enough about the QBs being listed on the top of the draft. Maybe if I did, I'd think about selecting one of these guys, but I guess I'll need to start looking into it.

Every game I watch I just look at that defense and wonder how the heck they are going to get one stop a game. You get the sense that they are outmatched as much as a D2 team would be against a very good BCS conference team. You just hope something lucky happens for them so they can get a stop. They are out of position. When they aren't they aren't physically able to make plays at any reasonably efficient rate. They are just bad.

I'm glad I'm not going to be the GM when it comes to the QB issue. I know I want to improve that defense and yet I know I need that QB as well. There are plenty of options with the selections. But it's a tough question to address - early draft pick, late draft pick, free agents, or just stay with something of the four-headed monster we had this year? All have legit points.

What QB's are coming out next year?? Because we probably aren't going to be much better. Here is a list of QB salaries.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/salaries/2008/qb.html

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A player that's going to sit for two years? Huh? Do your research as this is completely inaccurate.

Of the 14 QB's taken in the first round over the past 5 drafts, only 4 did not start multiple games their rookie season. Aaron Rodgers was the only one of this group not to start multiple games by their 2nd season.

Aaron Rodgers

Brady Quinn

Phillip Rivers

JP Losman

Every other QB taken with a 1st had at least 3 starts as a rookie.

Matt Ryan

Joe Flacco

JaMarcus Russell

Vince Young

Matt Leinart

Jay Cutler

Jason Campbell

Ben Roethlisberger

Alex Smith

Eli Manning

Didn't Carson Palmer sit his entire first year, behind Jon Kitna? And I believe he was a 1st overall pick? (I could be wrong on both counts)

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I really respect cruzers knowledge of the draft, however, I do question his knowledge of this team.

I think everyone knows that a qb needs a good supporting cast to be successful, which we do not! And I'm not sold at all that our front office can improve the defense and offensive line in the next 1-2 offseasons. if we do draft a qb, he's probably gonna end up being the starter at the end of the year.

But barring a miracle this off-season, he'll be behind a terrible line that can't give him enough time, and can't block for his rb. Of course, the defense won't be much help either because they'll be in a new system with new personnel.

So eventually we'll have to pass on every down, because we'll probably be down by a couple of scores, and he'll probably get picked off and sacked a few times, thus spoiling his career.

Bye-bye peyton, hellooo David Carr.

You might think that's an overly negative scenario, but it's really not when you think about how bad the lions have been recently.

So if we do draft a defensive guy or offensive lineman, he probably will screw up a bit, but he won't have nearly as much scrutiny and pressure, and will hopefully play a role on the team.

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I don't get the "Don't get a QB; there are other holes" argument. No matter who you pick, regardless of the position, this year's #1 overall will not fix the team. However, if the quarterbacks are franchise caliber (I believe they are) and Andrew Smith isn't, you take the quarterback. Best player available...

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I think everyone knows that a qb needs a good supporting cast to be successful, which we do not! And I'm not sold at all that our front office can improve the defense and offensive line in the next 1-2 offseasons. if we do draft a qb, he's probably gonna end up being the starter at the end of the year.

An OT needs a good supporting cast to be successful.

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I enlisted by crack research staff (not on crack!) to take a look at the draft status of Super Bowl QB's. Here's what they found. Their have been 49 different Super Bowl QB's (some have been there more than once, obviously).

Of the 49, here is the draft status:

1st rounders- 24

2nd/3rd round- 10

4th-6th- 6

7th and above/undrafted- 8

Supplemental draft- 1.

Thoughts???

Some notable Super Bowl QB's I found interesting:

Johnny Unitas- 9th round and cut by Pittsburgh. Picked up from a semi-pro team.

Jim Plunkett- 1st overall pick, then picked up off the scrap heap by the Raiders.

Bart Starr-17th round

Tom Brady- 6th round

Tony Eason- 1st round

Doug Williams- 1st round

Trent Dilfer- 1st round

Rex Grossman- 1st round

Marino, Kelly, Elway- all in the same year 1st round

Joe Montana - 3rd round

Terry Bradshaw- 1st overall selection

Kurt Warner- undrafted

Jake Delhomme- undrafted

Roger Staubach- 10th round

Kerry Collins- 1st round

Matt Hasselbeck- 6th round

Stan Humphries- 6th round

How many of those players were drafted by the team? How many were free agents? How many were acquired via trade?

I'm also curious about other positions and draft position. Left tackle? Tailback? Defensive ends?

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I don't get the "Don't get a QB; there are other holes" argument. No matter who you pick, regardless of the position, this year's #1 overall will not fix the team. However, if the quarterbacks are franchise caliber (I believe they are) and Andrew Smith isn't, you take the quarterback. Best player available...

If the QB's are better, I agree. Only because this time he'll have Kevin Smith to hand it to and Calvin Johnson to throw it to. Those guys are making Dan Orlovsky look decent. It won't be like the last time when we had James Stewart, Az Hakim, and Bill Schroeder for our rookie QB.

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How many of those players were drafted by the team? How many were free agents? How many were acquired via trade?

I'm also curious about other positions and draft position. Left tackle? Tailback? Defensive ends?

You can put your research team on that stuff. Mine is tired.

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You can put your research team on that stuff. Mine is tired.

I'm trying to see if anybody has done the work. The Football Prospectus a couple of years ago did a study that showed the two statistics for college QB's that translated best to pro success were games started and completion percentage... Take it for what it's worth.

I actually think this discussion is kinda pointless. Rather than focus on which hole to fill, the discussion should be on who fills the hole better. If Andre Smith isn't going to be a star tackle, why draft him in a strong QB class? By the same token, if the scouting says that none of the quarterbacks are what they are looking for, by all means take Smith.

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This is all just a bunch of hypothesizing until the Lions have a front office in place and the NFL scouting process is further along on all the prospects mentioned.

I say we table the entire discussion until January when Tom Lewand & Martin Mayhew are officially named by WCF as the "new" President and GM. :dead:

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Jeez, are you guys illiterate? Obviously, a young qb has a lot more pressure to perform than any other position. And if he does not perform well, even if its his lines or receivers fault, he will still be scrutinized, judged and the pressure will eventually get inside his head and possibly ruin his career.

The reason I say that defensive guys are safer picks is because they don't have nearly as much pressure to perform, and they have room for error. On the other hand, young Qb's have very little room for error.

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I'm trying to see if anybody has done the work. The Football Prospectus a couple of years ago did a study that showed the two statistics for college QB's that translated best to pro success were games started and completion percentage... Take it for what it's worth.

I actually think this discussion is kinda pointless. Rather than focus on which hole to fill, the discussion should be on who fills the hole better. If Andre Smith isn't going to be a star tackle, why draft him in a strong QB class? By the same token, if the scouting says that none of the quarterbacks are what they are looking for, by all means take Smith.

I completely agree about completion percentage. Bradford is a very accurate passer. IMO. I agree with your logic, too. But, if neither are great, go for the cheaper one. And you don't want to be stuck with an overpaid, mediocre QB.

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Jeez, are you guys illiterate? Obviously, a young qb has a lot more pressure to perform than any other position. And if he does not perform well, even if its his lines or receivers fault, he will still be scrutinized, judged and the pressure will eventually get inside his head and possibly ruin his career.

The reason I say that defensive guys are safer picks is because they don't have nearly as much pressure to perform, and they have room for error. On the other hand, young Qb's have very little room for error.

I know exactly what you are talking about but this young QB will have weapons and no real expectations of winning. You can't get worse than 0-16. The offense sure as heck won't get blamed for losing with the defense we have. Harrington was a perfect example of a QB getting ruined by the pressure and the scrutiny and it really wasn't his fault. This isn't the same.

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I really respect cruzers knowledge of the draft, however, I do question his knowledge of this team.

I think everyone knows that a qb needs a good supporting cast to be successful, which we do not! And I'm not sold at all that our front office can improve the defense and offensive line in the next 1-2 offseasons. if we do draft a qb, he's probably gonna end up being the starter at the end of the year.

But barring a miracle this off-season, he'll be behind a terrible line that can't give him enough time, and can't block for his rb. Of course, the defense won't be much help either because they'll be in a new system with new personnel.

So eventually we'll have to pass on every down, because we'll probably be down by a couple of scores, and he'll probably get picked off and sacked a few times, thus spoiling his career.

Bye-bye peyton, hellooo David Carr.

You might think that's an overly negative scenario, but it's really not when you think about how bad the lions have been recently.

So if we do draft a defensive guy or offensive lineman, he probably will screw up a bit, but he won't have nearly as much scrutiny and pressure, and will hopefully play a role on the team.

Sort of what happened to Steve Young in Tampa. He sucked there because of the team around him. But in San Francisco, he was perfect for their system.

Don't underestimate what the Lions could accomplish in 2 or 3 years. A really good coach will get more out of average players than a bad coach will get out of good players.

I'm not totally against taking a future starting QB #1 overall. You just better be very sure he fits the system we're going to put into place. And if a chance came to get multiple picks for that #1 overall, I would jump at it.

I'm with you about not knowing enough about the 2 possible quarterbacks that the Lions could possibly take. If one of them kids is a sure fire star waiting to happen, I guess we would be foolish not to take him. But IMO the Lions would need to build up their O line before throwing him in the fire. Take a QB 1st overall, sit him next year while we build up our O line. That's a plan. I guess I don't care HOW they build a playoff team, just that they DO build such a team.

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The reason I say that defensive guys are safer picks is because they don't have nearly as much pressure to perform, and they have room for error. On the other hand, young Qb's have very little room for error.

Quarterbacks don't flop any more frequently than defensive players.

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Sort of what happened to Steve Young in Tampa. He sucked there because of the team around him. But in San Francisco, he was perfect for their system.

Don't underestimate what the Lions could accomplish in 2 or 3 years. A really good coach will get more out of average players than a bad coach will get out of good players.

I'm not totally against taking a future starting QB #1 overall. You just better be very sure he fits the system we're going to put into place. And if a chance came to get multiple picks for that #1 overall, I would jump at it.

I'm with you about not knowing enough about the 2 possible quarterbacks that the Lions could possibly take. If one of them kids is a sure fire star waiting to happen, I guess we would be foolish not to take him. But IMO the Lions would need to build up their O line before throwing him in the fire. Take a QB 1st overall, sit him next year while we build up our O line. That's a plan. I guess I don't care HOW they build a playoff team, just that they DO build such a team.

That's the plan but...

1. There is no guarantee that we will be able to build a defense and a line in a year or two. This is the lions we're talking about.

2. There is a very good chance that whoever we draft is going to be forced to start a couple of games in his rookie season.

Jake, I understand where you're coming from but IMO there is always pressure for a young qb probably even moreso on a bad team. If we don't start winning in a few years, fans will automatically start pointing fingers at the qb.

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Quarterbacks don't flop any more frequently than defensive players.

They do cost alot more, though. There aren't any free agent QB's that are out there for next year that aren't big risks, either though.

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That's the plan but...

1. There is no guarantee that we will be able to build a defense and a line in a year or two. This is the lions we're talking about.

2. There is a very good chance that whoever we draft is going to be forced to start a couple of games in his rookie season.

Jake, I understand where you're coming from but IMO there is always pressure for a young qb probably even moreso on a bad team. If we don't start winning in a few years, fans will automatically start pointing fingers at the qb.

To me, we went small in the tampa 2 and then we acquired old free agent who were slow. So, our defense is now small, old, and slow. My problem with this draft is I there isn't an obvious dominating defensive player up front. So then QB looks OK. What if we get a dynamic QB to team with Johnson and Smith? Then after the QB pick, draft an OT and then go for defense. THe problem is our team is so bad that nothing looks like a good road to take.

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