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Pudge deserves a standing O today....

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Curtis Granderson, Magglio Ordonez, Justin Verlander, Fernando Rodney, Joel Zumaya, Jeremy Bonderman, Kenny Rogers, and others had more to do with that team emerging. Pudge's contribution to the Tigers' restoration is overstated.

Ditto. I never liked that he took the name "Pudge" from another catcher (Fisk). It'd be like Thames calling himself "Big Papi".

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I'd cheer Fedorov and I'd cheer Pudge. One standing ovation early in a meaningless September game doesn't seem too much to ask. He earned at least that. It's not like anyone's asking to retire his number or transplant the statue he has of himself from his backyard to behind the Comerica outfield.

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I'd cheer Fedorov and I'd cheer Pudge. One standing ovation early in a meaningless September game doesn't seem too much to ask. He earned at least that. It's not like anyone's asking to retire his number or transplant the statue he has of himself from his backyard to behind the Comerica outfield.

Does he really have a statue of himself?

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Curtis Granderson, Magglio Ordonez, Justin Verlander, Fernando Rodney, Joel Zumaya, Jeremy Bonderman, Kenny Rogers, and others had more to do with that team emerging. Pudge's contribution to the Tigers' restoration is overstated.

I disagree. He was the catalyst. He was the player that indicated to other free agents and players within the organization that it was a new era in Detroit. He broke the ice. Plus, the young pitchers got to throw to a Hall of Fame catcher. Not many young pitchers get that chance.

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I disagree. He was the catalyst. He was the player that indicated to other free agents and players within the organization that it was a new era in Detroit. He broke the ice. Plus, the young pitchers got to throw to a Hall of Fame catcher. Not many young pitchers get that chance.

"Got to throw" to him? Andy Pettite and Mike Mussina refuse to throw to him.

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I disagree. He was the catalyst. He was the player that indicated to other free agents and players within the organization that it was a new era in Detroit. He broke the ice. Plus, the young pitchers got to throw to a Hall of Fame catcher. Not many young pitchers get that chance.

Let me try:

I disagree. He was a money monger. He was the player that indicated to other free agents and players within the organization that Detroit was willing to overpay/give long contracts to players with declining skills. He broke the bank. Plus, the young pitchers got to throw to a catcher that two Hall of Fame caliber pitchers (well, one) won't even throw to anymore. Not many young pitchers suffer that much.

Pudge didn't warm pitchers up before games. He wasn't good at blocking balls in the dirt. He was almost certainly overpaid his whole time here. He moaned and bitched, including this year when he basically demanded a trade. Standing O? I wouldn't have.

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"Got to throw" to him? Andy Pettite and Mike Mussina refuse to throw to him.

I think that's more because they are so used to throwing to Posada. The Tigers young pitchers just knew Pudge by reputation and no doubt got some psychological help knowing that.

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I think that's more because they are so used to throwing to Posada.

That's not the impression I got. Even if that IS true, what an insult to Pudge. Could you imagine veteran pitchers requesting not to pitch to Fisk, or Bench? I think tarnishes I-Rod's career, somewhat. That, and Girardi pinch hitting for him in his first game as a Yank. Come to think of it, Girardi may have opened the door for his veterans to disrespect Pudge by what he did in that first game. Don't get me wrong - I like Girardi's laying down of the law. Good luck finding work next year Ivan. The Yankees may have killed your career...

I can't think of a case of a veteran being more humiliated in recent years.

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I was at the game and he got a very nice ovation from my section (324), at first most of the people were simply clapping but then once he stepped back to tip his hat the whole section stood up, myself included. It was nice to see.

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I disagree. He was the catalyst. He was the player that indicated to other free agents and players within the organization that it was a new era in Detroit. He broke the ice. Plus, the young pitchers got to throw to a Hall of Fame catcher. Not many young pitchers get that chance.

The catalyst for what? He may have broken that ice (some argued at the time Vina did, you can't have it both ways), but it's not like it helped lure anybody in. Magglio Ordonez was the same way. At the time, nobody else even considered giving him that many years. Like Pudge, he took a while to sign because he simply didn't want to come to Detroit. It was the hot start of 2006 that showed it was a new era in Detroit. You could make the argument it was Chris Shelton that had the most to do with catalyzing this team.

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The catalyst for what? He may have broken that ice (some argued at the time Vina did, you can't have it both ways), but it's not like it helped lure anybody in. Magglio Ordonez was the same way. At the time, nobody else even considered giving him that many years. Like Pudge, he took a while to sign because he simply didn't want to come to Detroit. It was the hot start of 2006 that showed it was a new era in Detroit. You could make the argument it was Chris Shelton that had the most to do with catalyzing this team.

After the 2004 season, Illitch was ready to spend big and the Tigers pursued free agents like Glaus, Beltran and Beltre and came up empty. They couldn't make a major signing until they apparently offered Ordonez way more than another team was willing to offer. So, it doesn't appear that Rodriguez was a major catalyst in that respect.

As for Shelton, the Tigers were something like 76-36 with him on the team and have played under .500 ball since he was demoted. If I was going to pick one catalyst for that season, it would be him. In reality though, it was a team effort.

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I was hoping he'd be booed personally, I'm not sure what of 'taking the most money offered' 'causing huge problems in 2005' and 'wanting out in 2008' deserved a standing ovation.

Was it his crappy play in 2006 and 2007 that magically led the Tigers to greatness?

+1

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The catalyst for what? He may have broken that ice (some argued at the time Vina did, you can't have it both ways), but it's not like it helped lure anybody in. Magglio Ordonez was the same way. At the time, nobody else even considered giving him that many years. Like Pudge, he took a while to sign because he simply didn't want to come to Detroit. It was the hot start of 2006 that showed it was a new era in Detroit. You could make the argument it was Chris Shelton that had the most to do with catalyzing this team.

I've always viewed Ordonez similarly to Rodriguez (in terms of his reasons for coming....I have a far more favorable view of Ordonez because I don't see him as a troublemaker quitter as I see Rodriguez), but when you put it this way it makes me remember that Ordonez did not sign until February. That really says it all.

Also, the Chris Shelton point is a very good one. With all due respect, I'll be stealing that line for use in arguments off-line on this topic.

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Right or wrong, I'm glad the fans gave him an ovation. It was a classy thing to do. The fans took the high road and I like it. I prefer to remember his tenure in Detroit as part of the Tigers resurgence and not as part of this seasons failures.

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