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belcherboy

Palin's daughter is pregnant....

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Again, just to clarify since everyone seems to be missing my point. I am NOT arguing that Palin's family situation should render Palin forever unable to run for office. I totally agree that Mr. Palin is perfectly capable of raising a family, and that any political candidate burdens his or her family by deciding to run for a national office.

My point is only that I have to question Palin's decision to run at this moment. Her family is going through what I can only imagine is an incredibly trying time, both with the condition of their 4 month old child, as well as the fact that their teenaged daughter is now pregnant herself. The next 3-4 months would be difficult enough, without Palin running for Vice President. The responsible decision, at this time, under these circumstances, would have been to wait until 2012 or 2016 to run.

No, what you are suggesting is that she is neglecting her child and family by running for elective office right now. We get that. We disagree with you, that's all. Your argument is simply not convincing us. We think that Palin is not being any way neglectful of Trig or Bristol by running for elective office at this time. You do. We get that. Nobody is misunderstanding what you are saying. We just think you are wrong.

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No, what you are suggesting is that she is neglecting her child and family by running for elective office right now. We get that. We disagree with you, that's all. Your argument is simply not convincing us. We think that Palin is not being any way neglectful of Trig or Bristol by running for elective office at this time. You do. We get that. Nobody is misunderstanding what you are saying. We just think you are wrong.

I don't think everyone was on the same page. Regardless, this won't be the first or last time that I'm right, and most of this board is wrong. :cool:

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After all, it's very possible, maybe even likely, that the Palins eloped because Sarah was already pregnant with her first child Track, whose birth date is listed only as "c. 1990" -- an odd way to characterize someone's birth date in this day and age, don't you think?

.

When McCain introduced Palin as his VP candidate she said that she and her husband were celebrating their 20th anniversary...so they got married in 1988.

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Eh? The dominion theory bit that is. Did I miss an ugly rumour?

In terms of the "criticism" of her (or "attacks" perhaps) - it could have an impact on her ability to argue certain policy areas and from that perspective it may have *some* legitimacy perhaps?

You'll have to google "dominion theology." It would take too long a post to describe it to you adequately.

I've heard it reported that she is a dominionist but not discussed with enough detail to get a real feel for where she personally stands or in what way she may have been associated with this group. Certainly it's legitimate to ask her about her view of church/state relationship. I'm prepared, as I was re Obama/Wright, to take her at her word but I want the question asked. It may even be that the reports all come from a single source who is using the term incorrectly or at least differently than I might interpret it.

On the second part of your post, certainly our personal experiences shape our belief relating to policy, either directly or indirectly. This would be true of anyone, and is probably as it should be.

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You'll have to google "dominion theology." It would take too long a post to describe it to you adequately.

Thanks - I wikied it actually which probably involves fewer clicks. It's interesting to understand.

I've heard it reported that she is a dominionist but not discussed with enough detail to get a real feel for where she personally stands or in what way she may have been associated with this group. Certainly it's legitimate to ask her about her view of church/state relationship. I'm prepared, as I was re Obama/Wright, to take her at her word but I want the question asked. It may even be that the reports all come from a single source who is using the term incorrectly or at least differently than I might interpret it.

I think you're probably right in that the question needs to be asked and her policy ideas/positions queried with regard to this. I can certainly see how some of the positions she's been described as having taken could be construed as being dominionist in nature when you consider the rationale that she's giving for those decisions.

Whether that would a) ever be linked to even semi-formal domionionist recognition as opposed to more simple evangelicanlism and b) cost votes is debatable. Which, I guess, is why the question needs to be asked I suppose.

There can't be an issue with this though can there? They *must* have checked her out and there can't be anything that's pinnable is there? I'd say they'd use it to push her evangelical credentials (Are you a dominionist?/No, I'm a christian and my christianity helps inform my decisions and policies). That would seem like a good strategy for her to pursue - and I imagine that the other side would find it hard or impossible to gain any ground if it wanted to attack on this one.

But right now I think there's other stuff about Palin that'll come out. It might be something like this in some form or it might be something else. I'm not really sure, for example, what all that Alaskan independence stuff is about and whether it has any merit at all.

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You know, Ron, even relating to the daughter, how much "dealing with it" do you really think is needed? The deed is done, the couple has decided to marry. Maybe not the plan or timing their parents envisioned, but at the end of the day not much different than experienced by many politicians who have children who decide to marry and/or make them grandparents while they are in office.

It's not like the kid is on the lam robbing banks or on trial for mass murder. She's getting married and having a baby. Very natural process. I'd imagine that the worst of it is already passed, which would be hearing and processing the news initially. Then you move on from there like any other mother of the bride, hopefully with the help of a wedding planner.

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Then you move on from there like any other mother of the bride, hopefully with the help of a wedding planner.

Dude, you expect her to be able to concentrate on running for VP when there's all that wedding planning stuff to do? That *must* invalidate her candidacy - dresses, hats, cakes, baby showers as well. How's she going to be able to concentrate on being a politician as well ;-)

Now, if she was a man... <ducks>

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I'd like to ask those who mock the abstinence programs if they favor getting rid of all drug treatment programs as well. It's well known that those are not 100% either.

If she killed the baby the left would be celebrating her "choice".

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Dude, you expect her to be able to concentrate on running for VP when there's all that wedding planning stuff to do? That *must* invalidate her candidacy - dresses, hats, cakes, baby showers as well. How's she going to be able to concentrate on being a politician as well ;-)

Now, if she was a man... <ducks>

bravo!! :grin:

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In the same way that the situation about Obama's brother is nobody's business but the Obamas.

Are there threads out here about Obama's brother? Is it on the network news? I don't even know what you are referring to. Hardly the same thing.

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I have more of an issue with the names she's given her kids. That alone would make me not vote for her.

Trig? Track? Willow? Piper? Bristol is okay.

Trig Palin

Track Palin

Willow Palin

Piper Palin

Come on, that's just ridiculous. Talk about bad judgement.

Yeah. She should have named them Barack, or Malia or Natasha. Those are real common names too. :happy:

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Dude, you expect her to be able to concentrate on running for VP when there's all that wedding planning stuff to do? That *must* invalidate her candidacy - dresses, hats, cakes, baby showers as well. How's she going to be able to concentrate on being a politician as well ;-)

Now, if she was a man... <ducks>

We also have to deal with the future mother-in-law relative to wedding planning. If she can handle that without killing anybody, I'd say that dealing with the Russians and Iran will be a walk in the park.

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I think this is my biggest criticism of you and others in the Obama camp.

Why even discuss the what if's in detail? I can understand making a statement about the potential damage this could have, but why build scenarios? This is probably why I think you secretly want this stuff to be true and are not truly neutral in these discussions. Again I have read people wrong before, and forgive me if I am mischaracterizing you!

Yes, you are mischaracterizing me, and if I didn't know you better, I'd say you appear to be trying to stifle debate from people whose positions you don't agree with. But I know from your history of posts that's not your intention.

The "what ifs" is what this debate is all about. There's a legitimate question on the table: why does all this even matter in the big scheme of things, namely her candidacy? Many of her proponents state categorically that it does not matter under any circumstances, and that this is a private matter that should concern only her family. And in and of itself, that is true under normal circumstances, and I've acknowledged that.

But because of both her position and her positions, there are circumstances under which it could matter. It would definitely matter if what Kos was saying were correct, wouldn't it? And it would matter if the views she states came into direct conflict with the actions she undertook since that would, would it not? These are two circumstances under which this story matters.

This is a debate forum about politics, and it's fair and proper to speculate on these things, even if it's uncomfortable to contemplate. That's what we're here for! Well, some of us, anyway.

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Yes, you are mischaracterizing me, and if I didn't know you better, I'd say you appear to be trying to stifle debate from people whose positions you don't agree with. But I know from your history of posts that's not your intention.

The "what ifs" is what this debate is all about. There's a legitimate question on the table: why does all this even matter in the big scheme of things, namely her candidacy? Many of her proponents state categorically that it does not matter under any circumstances, and that this is a private matter that should concern only her family. And in and of itself, that is true under normal circumstances, and I've acknowledged that.

But because of both her position and her positions, there are circumstances under which it could matter. It would definitely matter if what Kos was saying were correct, wouldn't it? And it would matter if the views she states came into direct conflict with the actions she undertook since that would, would it not? These are two circumstances under which this story matters.

This is a debate forum about politics, and it's fair and proper to speculate on these things, even if it's uncomfortable to contemplate. That's what we're here for! Well, some of us, anyway.

I'm sorry for mischaracterizing you, that definitely wasn't my intent.

It would matter if the those who claim that the moon landing was fake were correct, wouldn't it? The reason most dismiss them, is for a lack of evidence (IMO they do have some good arguments, but not enough to convince most people). The same could be said in this situation. IMO the only ones who question this thing, are the ones that want it to be true. Obviously that isn't you, so IMO you are one of the rare ones. If it turns out to be true, I will definitely eat crow on it. I just don't believe the GOP is as dumb as KOS thinks they are. They have an agenda, along with others in the media (both left and right), so that is where my skepticism comes.

I've enjoyed the debate with you so far, so just tell me to shut up if I get a little to intense! :grin:

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No worries -- you're a good level-headed guy. Hug it out, bitches! :happy:

I will say this, though: I can't say that I don't want it to be true. But I can't say I want it to be true, either. I'm looking at all this as though I'm in a theater watching it unfold and thinking, "Ooh, what's gonna happen next?" And since I'm analytical by nature, I try to figure out all the angles along the way so I can try to guess what the outcome is gonna be. I'm hard-wired to do that. And it's like a game to me in a way -- keeps me engaged in what's going on, because some of this **** is so depressing that sometimes all you want to do is retreat into your cocoon and surround yourself with safe, predictable things, like Encyclopedia Brown books and Brady Bunch reruns. Life is crazy and unpredictable -- you need to derive some entertainment value from it along the way.

As far as Sarah Palin herself is concerned, my view is that she's stepping onto the Big Stage now, so I have no sympathy for her if stuff that's true starts to come out. You want to run with the big dogs, you gotta keep running and never stop. She's got some good help in the Rove team, though, so all she's gotta do is rehearse her lines and smile for the camera, and I think she'll come out of this all right.

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that's how Obama's made it this far. Rehearse your lines and smile. She can do it too.

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He may be rehearsing lines -- ****, I do that myself before important meetings -- but the difference is that Obama is a known great thinker. We don't know that about Sarah Palin just yet.

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Remind me never to run for office...every tiny detail gets known. Damn.

You have little to worry about. You have your secret right out in the open. Monkeynuts? Well, that says it all.

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He may be rehearsing lines -- ****, I do that myself before important meetings -- but the difference is that Obama is a known great thinker. We don't know that about Sarah Palin just yet.

Yeah, that is the one thing that turns me off, more and more, about Obama. I just don't understand why his supporters have given him this "brilliant" tag. He may just be brilliant, but I don't think anyone will know till he gets into office. He certainly has accomplished anything yet, in my book, to label him a "great thinker". He definitely has the potential.

IMO, Obama is really set up for failure, as many of his supporters have already labeled him as one of the greatest politicians in generations. If he is just a good politician, many will be disappointed.

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Man, the Bush years have really led us to set low bars for everyone, haven't they?

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He may be rehearsing lines -- ****, I do that myself before important meetings -- but the difference is that Obama is a known great thinker. We don't know that about Sarah Palin just yet.

why is he known as a great thinker? From what I understand his time as a law professor didn't include any special opinions or writings.

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