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Ed Stevens

Question on Options and '09 Rule V Eligibility

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Higginson had 8.85 million on his contract in 2005 when he was cut after 27 PA.

Rob

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Higginson had 8.85 million on his contract in 2005 when he was cut after 27 PA.

Rob

He was never cut. He finished the season on the DL.

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He was never cut. He finished the season on the DL.

My apologies, you are quite correct. Allow me then, to wish that Sheffield comes down with the same untimely lateral oblique strain that ends his career. I'm sure that Higginson would have gone on to many fruitful years except for that injury. :)

Rob

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Edman with the info that you provided on rule 5 and option list, it presents a difficult time for Tiger decisions. I made a projected list of the 25 and 40 players for 2009 based on the current players (no trades projected).

24 players on 2008 roster remain: Gallaraga, Verlander, Dolsi, Rodney, Zumaya, Miner, Rapada, Porcello, Willis, Bonderman, Farmsworth, Seay, Inge, Cabrera, Polanco, Raburn, Guillen, Joyce, Granderson, Ordonez, Larrish, Hollimon, Thomas, Clevlan

14 players on 2008 roster leave (retired/trade/etc): Rogers, Robertson, Lopez, Jones, Fossum, Vasquez, Bonine, McBride, Thames, Renteria, Santiago, Sheffield, Wilson, Sardinha

16 players that you protect (Rule 5/promote/etc): Figaro, Marte, Moscoso, K. Cedano, Ryan, Skelton, W. Ramirez, Perry, Fein, SS TBD, R. Garcia, Justice, Lambert, Simons, De La Cruz, Rainwater

Of the added players except for Perry and Fein, what one do you want to lose just to keep one of the 14 that are cut. I think the future is more important than keeping one of the 14 cut players.

Thanks for your info.

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I don't see any scenario where Cedano, Garcia, Justice, Simons, or the other DLC are protected on the 40-man roster...absolutely none.

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No need to protect some of those guys. Rainwater, Justice, Ramon Garcia, Cedano, Simons...I wouldn't put any of those guys on the 40-man.

Edit: Whoops...too slow.

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Edman with the info that you provided on rule 5 and option list, it presents a difficult time for Tiger decisions. I made a projected list of the 25 and 40 players for 2009 based on the current players (no trades projected).

24 players on 2008 roster remain: Gallaraga, Verlander, Dolsi, Rodney, Zumaya, Miner, Rapada, Porcello, Willis, Bonderman, Farmsworth, Seay, Inge, Cabrera, Polanco, Raburn, Guillen, Joyce, Granderson, Ordonez, Larrish, Hollimon, Thomas, Clevlan

14 players on 2008 roster leave (retired/trade/etc): Rogers, Robertson, Lopez, Jones, Fossum, Vasquez, Bonine, McBride, Thames, Renteria, Santiago, Sheffield, Wilson, Sardinha

16 players that you protect (Rule 5/promote/etc): Figaro, Marte, Moscoso, K. Cedano, Ryan, Skelton, W. Ramirez, Perry, Fein, SS TBD, R. Garcia, Justice, Lambert, Simons, De La Cruz, Rainwater

Of the added players except for Perry and Fein, what one do you want to lose just to keep one of the 14 that are cut. I think the future is more important than keeping one of the 14 cut players.

Thanks for your info.

In addition to my above post, if you're not considering trades -- as you indicate right up front -- then you have to consider Robertson, Thames, and Sheffield as members of next year's roster.

That leaves you with the following as almost assured 25-man spots unless there is significant off-season action......Inge, Cabrera, Polanco, Guillen, Ordonez, Joyce, Raburn, Thames, Granderson, Sheffield, Robertson, Verlander, Bonderman, Galarraga, and Zumaya. In addition to that, extremely likely members of that same roster are Miner, Seay, and Rodney. That's a total of 18 players right there.

The next group of guys are those that are already on the 40-man, and extremely unlikely to be removed....Larish, Hollimon, Thomas, Clevlen, Bonine, Vasquez, Rapada, and Porcello. Adding those players in, that brings you to 26 players.

Now, if you make a fair assumption that you have a slot in the rotation to fill, a shortstop void to fill, and let's say for the sake of discussion two bullpen slots to fill....and that these are filled external to the organization, you're up to 30 slots on the 40-man that are committed. Not to mention that if Perry or Fien are brought up this fall before September 1st, they would remain on the roster, leaving you at 31 or 32.

That leaves ten slots for additional players for the Major League roster, or additions for protection from the Rule 5 draft. Of those that are eligible for the Rule 5 this December, the following are those that actually merit some modicum of consideration....Figaro, Lambert, Marte, Moscoso, Rusch, Ryan, Skelton, Leon, and Ramirez.

Varying cases can be made for any of these guys....

Figaro has arm strength, but protecting him I believe will hinge on his performance at Lakeland. Lambert has put together a nice year and could be a viable option for the big club next year, making some sense to protect him. If Marte's elbow proves healthy, I think you have to protect him at this point; if it does not, then he's left unprotected. Moscoso has been very good thus far this year, and he's got enough stuff to warrant protecting; provided the organization has faith in his ability to remain healthy -- which I do not posess. Rusch, as a reliever, would be a long shot in my eyes. Ryan and Skelton have both had nice enough seasons and provide enough intrigue that you have to consider protecting players at such a tough position to fill. I think Ryan is the priority here, as I believe Skelton would be very difficult to keep on the big league roster all season long. Max Leon is one of those guys that plays enough defense, gets on base, and slaps the ball around, that he could easily stick if a team wanted him to. I doubt he garners protection, but he could. Wilkin is a no-brainer based on the progress he's made this year.

In reality, I see only four guys (Ramirez, Ryan, Marte, and Lambert) that we need to protect heading into this off-season....with another three that may warrant consideration in Skelton, Moscoso, and Figaro. The decisions aren't going to be that difficult at the minor league level....they will however be extremely difficult in terms of constructing an adequate big league roster to keep us in contention next year.

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Provided they actually offered arbitration and Farnsworth declined -- which must happen -- they would get a supplemental round pick.

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Mark, I appreciate your input. A couple more that were not on your list are Dolsi and Willis. I believe that they will be a part of the 40 man roster. Another factor is the options remaining on a player, you might want them but they do not have an option. It would be nice if they could give Neal and Cruceta another shot at making the roster.

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Dolsi and Willis were oversights...but adding them in in reality, doesn't complicate the protection process for the Rule 5 draft, because there really aren't that many players that warrant serious consideration.

Neal and Cruceta will both be free agents after this year if I am not mistaken, and I am at least somewhat skeptical that we'll be able to retain either of them.

And the only player seriously affected by their options, is Clevlen, who will have to make a strong push for the big league roster....the others such as Thames, Seay, McBride, and Santiago have larger issues surrounding their respective circumstances, and the options are of minimal concern.

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Last time I ran the compensation numbers, Farnsworth wasn't even type B. I think it's a fair assumption, given two months with the closer's job, that he would get a pick though. A type B gets a Sandwich round pick between the first and second rounds. A type A gets that sandwich pick plus a first or second round pick, depending on where the signing team is drafting.

I think McBride could be affected by his options, as they won't be able to option him to the minors to give him an extended rehab from his surgery. I think he'll be removed from the roster anyways, though.

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So far he seems to be trying his hardest to ensure he'll have no shot at being a Type B.

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Wilkin and Dusty for DNM sure would be protected.............I'm not sure about the others mentioned

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I noticed that Rhymes is listed as the SS tonight for the Sea Wolves.

He is hitting .300 again this year. Last year he hit .300 for the Flying Tigers.

I thought he normally played 2nd base.

Does anyone know if he can play a decent or above average SS?

Or is this just another Tiger's organization experiment on changing a player's position?

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That's all well and good, but call me a skeptic on this one. His range isn't that great, and his arm isn't that strong...I see both short and third being a significant stretch for him.

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Well, he wasn't gonna make it without playing several positions, so it's something they need to at least try before letting him go.

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That's all well and good, but call me a skeptic on this one. His range isn't that great, and his arm isn't that strong...I see both short and third being a significant stretch for him.

Thanks for answering my question.

How would you compare his arm to Guillen's and Renteria's? LOL

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OK, found a great counterexample to my argument against Clevlen. Ryan Ludwick. He had an insane strikeout rate during his season in Toledo. Actually his season there looks a lot like Clevlen's current one, except Clevlen's hitting for a higher average and drawing more walks (at a younger age). So maybe that's encouraging. Obviously we can't expect him to hit like Ryan Ludwick is next season but there's precedent for a guy performing like that in AAA and being a big time asset in MLB soon after.

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