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Josh Smith?

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When did I ever say Smith was a SF? Regardless, a frontline of Josh Smith, Sheed, and Dice would fare very well. Sheed plays outside and takes the shots of a typical SF. Dice plays a more mid-range game. And Smith scores in the post, something the Pistons badly need, and has the athletic ability to guard SFs.

This actually is true.

FALSE. Last season while spending time at PF, Smith's opponents averaged fewer than 20 points per 48 minutes. Amir gave up over 23 pts/48 min (generally against other teams' 2nd and 3rd string guys). Smith also finished 2nd in the league in total blocks the last 3 years. Amir could be a good defender, but foul trouble limits him.

FALSE. According to 82games.com, Smith has an adjusted eFG% of .618 while Amir comes in at .611 (again usually not against the other team's starting PF). This with Smith being keyed on much more as his team's #2 scoring option. Smith also has a higher Roland Rating (4.9 vs 4.2). The only possible way to consider Amir a more efficient shooter than Smith, would be to discount the fact that Amir takes so few shots and shoots the overwhelming majority of the time from under the basket (tips, dunks, and "garbage points").

(A note on Roland Ratings, according to 82games:

"This rating isn't an absolute measure of a player's ability, but it does represent how successful a player is with a given team. In general the player with the best Roland Rating on a team is the difference maker (exclude the guys who play a statistically insignificant number of minutes)."

82games considers 35% of team minutes to be enough to qualify, which comes out to slightly under 1400 minutes in a season, or about 14 MPG. Amir played 763 total minutes last year.

Finally, Smith has a PER +2.0 over opposing PF, while Amir has a PER -3.7 lower than opposing PF.

Josh Smith

Amir Johnson

Roland Ratings

Ratings Explanation

well done...unfortunately, it will be ignored and we'll continue to see Amir's Roland Rating and offensive efficiency being touted as the reason he'll be a first ballot HOF'er.

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Smith and his agent have an extremely inflated view of what Smith is worth. Evidenced by the fact that no one has wanted to pay what they are asking.

$7 - $8 million a year maximum.

Maybe Maxiell for Smith straight up on a sign and trade which could work even with Smith BYC value if he signed for only $7 million or so.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080728/SPORTS03/807280364/1051/rss16

WRONG!

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Josh Smith >> Maxiell + Johnson, both players combined will never put up numbers like Smith did last year, and Smith is still getting better.

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WRONG!

Oil wasn't worth $150 a barrel and Josh Smith ain't worth $11.8 million a year and more than Darko is worth $7.5 million a year.

That is why teams like Memphis and Atlanta always wind up out of it every year. They over pay for ESPN highlight film material. LOL

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Josh Smith >> Maxiell + Johnson, both players combined will never put up numbers like Smith did last year, and Smith is still getting better.

Joe D. can be reached here.

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox/pistons_mailbag.html

He is the guy that didn't trade Amir and whoever for Smith.

Feel free to contact him.

I know that Keith Langlois will pass along a question that you have for Joe D.

Let us know what Joe D. says. Thanks

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For those of you who are so in love with Smith's game just follow him to whatever team he winds up Memphis or Atlanta.

I am sure that they have forums and would welcome Smith fans.

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For those of you who are so in love with Smith's game just follow him to whatever team he winds up Memphis or Atlanta.

I am sure that they have forums and would welcome Smith fans.

Because of your absolute man love for Amir Johnson, the irony of you telling anyone to go to a different forum because they like a particular player is amazing.

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Josh Smith Update: The Memphis Grizzlies pulled off a stunner, agreeing to a five-year $58 million offer sheet with Hawks restricted free-agent Josh Smith today. Sources tell HOOPSWORLD, the Hawks have every intention of matching the deal, that reviewing the specific terms of the offer is all but a formality. Memphis may have done Atlanta a huge favor. The Hawks now have seven days to match the deal.

At five years and $58 million, it's roughly the amount of money Smith was seeking but the Hawks weren't convinced they would have to meet the amount. The offer from Memphis makes it clear they do, so it seems they will.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9721

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If Smith gets 5 years and 58 million, just imagine how much it's going to cost the Pistons to keep Amir Johnson?

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If Smith gets 5 years and 58 million, just imagine how much it's going to cost the Pistons to keep Amir Johnson?

I hope the Pistons wait until Amir actually accomplishes something in the NBA before backing up the Brinks truck to his house.

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I hope the Pistons wait until Amir actually accomplishes something in the NBA before backing up the Brinks truck to his house.

Oh, my friend, just you wait. Have you met Buddahfan? Hey Buddahfan, tell him how great Amir Johnson is going to be this year...

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Oil wasn't worth $150 a barrel and Josh Smith ain't worth $11.8 million a year and more than Darko is worth $7.5 million a year.

That is why teams like Memphis and Atlanta always wind up out of it every year. They over pay for ESPN highlight film material. LOL

Correct me if I'm wrong......but you say teams like Mempis & Atlanta always end up out of it every year right?

So yeah, I'll give you Memphis........but how can you say that about Atlanta? Wasn't it just last year that they took the Celtics to 7 games.....which is a bigger fight than we put up against them by the way......And I know they didn't beat them, and I know they got smoked when they went into the Boston Garden, but putting up that big of a fight against the #1 seed and eventual Champs is still pretty decent. And on top of that, don't think for one second that Josh Smith wasn't a big part of that.

So does it make him worth $11+ million a year.....I dunno, but he's becoming a beast in the NBA and he's only 22, and I'd take him over at least half the guys on the Pistons right now........

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For the record last year

Per 36 minutes played

---------------------

Rebounds

Amir 11.1

Smith 8.4

Blocks

-----------

Amir 3.9

Smith 2.8

Points

-----------

Amir 10.4

Smith 17.5

====================

FG%

Amir .558

Smith .457

Will Amir get the minutes that Smith does?

No way. Why?

Because the Pistons have too much depth and Atlanta especially without Childress has zero depth.

So on a per game basis Smith may continue to get higher numbers for at least this year. After this year Amir should get enough minutes to get more rebounds and blocks per game than Smith

Will Amir ever score as much as Smith? Most likely not.

Why?

1. Because Pistons teams don't run their offense through their PF. Since Joe D. has been affiliated with the Pistons going back to the days of the Bad Boys the scoring on the team has always come from the guards or SF. That will most likely continue especially with the guards that we have now. I also expect that once Sharpe gets up to speed that he will also become a strong scoring option. Probably stronger than Prince is now.

2. Detroit has a lot more options on offense than Atlanta so the offense will continue to be spread around for us whereas Atlanta really only has 4 guys that can score; i.e. Bibby, Johnson, Williams and Smith. Horford may one day develop into a true scoring threat but as of now that is not the case.

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Here is a comparison of the defensive rating last year of the big men on Boston, Detroit and Atlanta.

The lower the number the better

Player Def Rating

-------------------------------

Horford-----106

Smith-------103

Maxiell------103

McDyess----100

Powe-------100

Sheed-------98

Perkins------97

Amir--------95

KG---------94

All stats from baskeballreference.com

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/battish01.html

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Joe D. can be reached here.

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox/pistons_mailbag.html

He is the guy that didn't trade Amir and whoever for Smith.

Feel free to contact him.

I know that Keith Langlois will pass along a question that you have for Joe D.

Let us know what Joe D. says. Thanks

Huh, I'm not seeing anything in that fan mail summary about Dumars not wanting to trade Amir Johnson for Josh Smith, in fact the only thing I found was something about either Amir Johnson or Maxiell being used as filler in such a trade. Where did you get Dumars didn't want to trade Amir Johnson for Josh Smith, or course he would, Atlanta probably wanted Stuckey though.

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Buddahfan, your use of irrelevant statistics to prove Amir Johnson is good is worthless. Amir Johnson only played against the worst players in the league, when the games were out of hand and meaningless. Plus his sample size is way to low. Please don't use that as your excuse on this guy.

If you want to say he's a good athlete, but hasn't been given a chance to prove anything because the Pistons have had many NBA big men already ahead of him, that's a good point. Stuckey someone earned minutes last year though, so I don't know if that even holds a lot of water these days. This is his fourth year, make or break time for Johnson. Personally, I think his upside is a Tyrus Thomas type player (although Tyrus Thomas has a better jumper).

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For the record last year

Per 36 minutes played

---------------------

Rebounds

Amir 11.1

Smith 8.4

Blocks

-----------

Amir 3.9

Smith 2.8

Points

-----------

Amir 10.4

Smith 17.5

====================

FG%

Amir .558

Smith .457

Will Amir get the minutes that Smith does?

No way. Why?

Because the Pistons have too much depth and Atlanta especially without Childress has zero depth.

So on a per game basis Smith may continue to get higher numbers for at least this year. After this year Amir should get enough minutes to get more rebounds and blocks per game than Smith

Will Amir ever score as much as Smith? Most likely not.

Why?

1. Because Pistons teams don't run their offense through their PF. Since Joe D. has been affiliated with the Pistons going back to the days of the Bad Boys the scoring on the team has always come from the guards or SF. That will most likely continue especially with the guards that we have now. I also expect that once Sharpe gets up to speed that he will also become a strong scoring option. Probably stronger than Prince is now.

2. Detroit has a lot more options on offense than Atlanta so the offense will continue to be spread around for us whereas Atlanta really only has 4 guys that can score; i.e. Bibby, Johnson, Williams and Smith. Horford may one day develop into a true scoring threat but as of now that is not the case.

Oh.....his numbers per 36 minutes are better than Smith's.......Sweet, that means nothing.

You can break down the stats all you want & say yeah but if Amir played 36 minutes a game his stats would be better. Even with those projected stat's, that's not even necessarily true. You can't really make a good case on a strictly hypothetical & "what if" situation. Smith has played about 33 minutes a game on average for his career. Amir has averaged about 13 minutes a game. All the stats that you've provided show is that Amir COULD/MIGHT be able to put those numbers up if he played 36 minutes a game, where as the numbers on Smith are actually what he does. Add into the equation that Smith has 3-4 years of solid playing time under his belt and Amir doesn't.

I understand that you're Amir Johnson's superfan, and that's fine. Personally I'd love to see Amir get more playing time & eventually be as good as those numbers project too.......but right now Amir has nothing on Josh Smith. Like I said before, you're basing everything you say about Amir on projections compared to what Smith has actually done in the league.

All I'm saying is it's kind of hard to be taken seriously or make a case for something without any real fact's behind it.......

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We're all begging you...please, stop using Amir's per 36 as a way to advocate for him. It is meaningless when you're comparing a guy who got 36 mpg to a guy who got 12 mpg. I really dont' understand how you can possibly think it's relevant. Just stop, man.

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All-Overrated First and Second Teams

Published by Matt Watson on October 10, 2008 in Guest Writer.

By Kevin Sawyer

FIRST TEAM

James Posey – F

This year’s winner of the Robert Horry memorial over-hyped role player award. James Posey has all the characteristics. He’s a solid defender, hits threes, and is kinda funny looking. He has rings. Oh, and he meets the most important qualification. He isn’t very good. Have fun paying this guy until he can draw Social Security, New Orleans.

Josh Smith – F

How do you jump from my underrated list to my overrated list in one year? Here’s how. Smith’s popularity skyrocketed this year while his production remained the same. The Hawks improbable playoff run didn’t help matters any. He has shown glimpses of greatness, but has also shown more glimpses of not having his head on straight. With the Hawks piddling away Josh Childress in the offseason… well, there’s nothing like a 30 win season to cool your jets.

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-10-10/all-overrated-first-and-second-teams-2/

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Hawks’ Mike Woodson calls out Josh Smith

Coach, forward play down incident after practice

By SEKOU SMITH

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Tuesday, October 21, 2008

Hawks coach Mike Woodson and Josh Smith finally had their training camp dust-up Tuesday, ringing in yet another year together.

Woodson called his team together in a practice-ending huddle and began his speech by telling his team that they needed to take their game to another level with the regular season approaching

He mentioned Smith by name, which prompted the fifth-year forward to react by saying he was willing to “take all the blame.”

After a brief exchange the huddle broke and Smith headed for the locker room steaming at being called out and shattered his mouthpiece case against a wall. Woodson, smiling the entire time, warned his assistants and other players that Smith would be fine and that they shouldn’t worry.

“Listen, it’s getting close to that time and we can’t go into this thing being cool about anything,” Woodson said long after the buzz had died down. “We had a good run last year and that run is over. You’ve got to build on that run. And the only way you do that is through hard work, on the floor and that carrying over into games.

“I’m not letting these guys off the hook. They can think I’m tough or whatever, but we’ve got to be ready. We’ve got to be ready.”

The final preseason game is Thursday in Detroit before the regular season opens on Oct. 29.

Smith has been a shadow of his usual self during this preseason. While statistics are normally lower due to fewer minutes being played, some of his numbers are drastically low.

He’s grabbed just one rebound in the Hawks’ last two preseason games and didn’t block a single shot in either game. Fouls limited him to just over 15 minutes in Saturday’s win in Charlotte. But he played 33 minutes in a loss to Orlando Monday and grabbed just one rebound to go along with his 13 points and five assists.

Smith’s preseason averages of 11.7 points, 2.7 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 1.3 blocks aren’t anywhere close to what will be expected when the season starts.

Not after he averaged 17.2 points, 8.2 rebounds, 3.4 assists and 2.8 blocks and 1.5 steals last season.

“For me it’s about measuring myself,” said Smith, who insisted that his reaction to Woodson earlier was strictly a tongue-in-cheek showing to get a rise out of everyone — and he later went into Woodson’s office to make sure there was no mistaking his motives. “Coach is right. I do need to crank it up. And we do need to crank it up as a team. And I understand that when Oct. 29 comes I’m going to lay it all on the line. I’m going to play 82 games as hard as I can and do whatever it takes for my team to win, be it rebounding, blocking shots or scoring or whatever it is.”

What Woodson knows is what he says Smith will learn as this season goes on; that when a player goes from his rookie deal to his first big contract — the Hawks matched a $58 offer sheet from Memphis Aug. 15 to keep Smith — expectations rise.

Even in the preseason.

Hawks captain and All-Star Joe Johnson said he went through a similar process three years ago after signing a five-year, $70 million deal to take over as the Hawks’ top player.

“People expect you to come out and perform at the highest level every night,” Johnson said. “And you [expletive] near have to do that. So it’s going to learning experience and a process for him, because he’s never been asked to carry that kind of load. It’ll be tough for him at the start, it was for me, I went through a roller coaster when I first got here.

“But after a while, when you really learn your niche and play to your strengths it’ll come easier. If you don’t recognize that early, though, you’ll continue to struggle.”

http://www.ajc.com/hawks/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/10/21/hawks_woodson_smith_fight.html

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